Author Topic: Outdoors Training (Read 4037 times)

Matthew · « **Reply #15 on:** January 12, 2007, 08:08:26 PM »

Thanks for the excellent list, Carolus. And welcome to the forum!

...though I might not want to go out and buy a condom. I can see it now: "It's for carrying water!! I'm not using birth control, everyone!"

Matthew

Carolus Magnus · « **Reply #16 on:** January 12, 2007, 08:12:54 PM »

Quote from: antyshemanic

If I were going camping I would more than likely get me something
for water like below.
Berkey Sport - Portable Water Purifier
The Sport Berkey® Portable Water Purifier is the ideal personal protection traveling companion - featuring the IONIC ADSORPTION MICRO FILTRATION SYSTEM. The theory behind this innovation is simple. The bottle's filter is designed to remove and/or dramatically reduce a vast array of health-threatening contaminants from questionable sources of water, including remote lakes and streams, stagnant ponds and water supplies in foreign countries where regulations may be sub standard, at best.

http://www.disasterstuff.com/shop/pc/372.htm
This site also has other things I might consider taking with me.

Interesting thing mentioned in the small print gives some clue to this products actual effectiveness:

Note: If using a source of water that might contain extreme bacteriological or viral contamination, it is recommended that two drops of plain Clorox or iodine be added to each refill before filtering. This will kill minute pathogens such as viruses. The disinfectant will then be filtered from the water entirely removing its odor, color and taste.

Chlorine or Iodine will both purify water on their own and even then will not do as good a job as boiling it, if you need to use them why bother with this thing at all?

Carolus Magnus · « **Reply #17 on:** January 12, 2007, 08:15:43 PM »

Quote from: ChantCd

Thanks for the excellent list, Carolus. And welcome to the forum!

...though I might not want to go out and buy a condom. I can see it now: "It's for carrying water!! I'm not using birth control, everyone!"

Matthew

I understand where your coming from with that, the reason it is so useful is because of it's small size, fits easily into the tobacco tin you see, no one believes you of course.

And thanks for the welcome :dancing:

Carolus Magnus · « **Reply #18 on:** January 12, 2007, 08:23:32 PM »

I'll add some more stuff later, make sure you actually test something out before you need to use it for real, all that kit is useless if you dont know whats it's for or how to use it effectively.

student · « **Reply #19 on:** February 09, 2007, 05:31:47 PM »

Can you burn paper for heat? What about for cooking?

Carolus Magnus · « **Reply #20 on:** February 09, 2007, 06:15:11 PM »

Quote from: student

Can you burn paper for heat? What about for cooking?

paper burns to fast to be the main source of fuel for a fire, it is best used as tinder to start a fire, the main fuel source would have to be something else.

antyshemanic · « **Reply #21 on:** February 09, 2007, 08:21:44 PM »

Quote from: Carolus Magnus

Interesting thing mentioned in the small print gives some clue to this products actual effectiveness:

Note: If using a source of water that might contain extreme bacteriological or viral contamination, it is recommended that two drops of plain Clorox or iodine be added to each refill before filtering. This will kill minute pathogens such as viruses. The disinfectant will then be filtered from the water entirely removing its odor, color and taste.

Chlorine or Iodine will both purify water on their own and even then will not do as good a job as boiling it, if you need to use them why bother with this thing at all?

I have a 3 gal size that filters up to 13 gal a day.Have been using it for over 5 yrs. with no problem,even tried the lake water in it could not tell any difference in taste. A couple of years ago they were working on the water lines for a few days & the water was a rusty looking color during that time. I did not boil it only added a few drops of clorox nobody got sick.

Well Carolus... if I had a choice between a few drops of clorox or iodine & having to build a fire & then waiting for the water to boil then cool down I would choose the first option with a bottle filter.Simply because its faster & less work.

The only time I would be worried about the water is if it was stagnant or around human or animal waste then I would boil it clorox it & iodine it.

Frankly I don't see having to spend a lot of time boiling water when I don't have too. Just call me lazy. :wink:

Carolus Magnus · « **Reply #22 on:** February 10, 2007, 07:26:39 AM »

Quote from: antyshemanic

Quote from: Carolus Magnus

Interesting thing mentioned in the small print gives some clue to this products actual effectiveness:

Note: If using a source of water that might contain extreme bacteriological or viral contamination, it is recommended that two drops of plain Clorox or iodine be added to each refill before filtering. This will kill minute pathogens such as viruses. The disinfectant will then be filtered from the water entirely removing its odor, color and taste.

Chlorine or Iodine will both purify water on their own and even then will not do as good a job as boiling it, if you need to use them why bother with this thing at all?

I have a 3 gal size that filters up to 13 gal a day.Have been using it for over 5 yrs. with no problem,even tried the lake water in it could not tell any difference in taste. A couple of years ago they were working on the water lines for a few days & the water was a rusty looking color during that time. I did not boil it only added a few drops of clorox nobody got sick.

Well Carolus... if I had a choice between a few drops of clorox or iodine & having to build a fire & then waiting for the water to boil then cool down I would choose the first option with a bottle filter.Simply because its faster & less work.

The only time I would be worried about the water is if it was stagnant or around human or animal waste then I would boil it clorox it & iodine it.

Frankly I don't see having to spend a lot of time boiling water when I don't have too. Just call me lazy. :wink:

Thats fine just as long as you realise that boiling it is the most effective way of purifying water out of these three methods. If you already have a heat source it only takes as long as it takes to make a cup of coffee.

In a wilderness or survival situation a fire is essential for more than just purifying water, it also provides heat and allows you to cook food. Considering then that you will almost certainly have a source of heat already, boiling water isn't really that difficult. You can't expect me to belive you do not have heating/cooking implements where you live, and I would not expect you to do without these in the contryside either.

In general an item which has many functions should be preferred over specialist items when you are deciding which equipment is most important to have. A water filter does not allow you to be self sufficent unless you know how to build a replacement when it is lost or stops working, and it will eventually stop working. Likewise unless you know and have the equipment to maufacture Chlorine/Iodine you will eventually run out of these. However anyone can learn to build a fire, giving you the self sufficeny to purify water, heat food, keep your self warm and in more advanced situations even create your own tools.

Carolus Magnus · « **Reply #23 on:** February 10, 2007, 07:35:38 AM »

Some Uses of Fire
by Norm Kidder

Landscape modification

Coppicing basket materials
Clearing brush for ease of travel and hunting
Removing thatch in late fall to promote wildflower seeds and bulbs for food
Burning meadows in summer to promote seed bearing grasses (weeding and fertilizing)
General burning to revitalize plant communities for greater abundance
Clear ground for food gathering

Hunting

Drive grasshoppers into cooking pit
Drive ground squirrels from holes
Smoke bees from hive
Chase bison and other game over cliff or into trap
Night fishing with torch

Cooking

Roasting on coals or grill
Baking in pit or stone oven
Indirect cooking - as planking salmon
Boiling in clay pot or stone boiling in basket or wooden bowl, etc.
Parching seeds

Steam bending wood

Straighten arrow, dart and spear shafts
Recurve and reflex bows
Bend basket rim sticks
Bend looped stirring sticks for stone boiling
Straighten hand drills for fire making

Smoking hides and meat to preserve

Softening tar and pitch for adhesive

Heat treating stone for tools

Wood working

Burn bowls and spoons
Dugout canoes
Burning down trees
Sharpening and fire hardening digging sticks and spears
General burn and scrape shaping

Making charcoal

For cooking and heating
For smelting metals
For firing pottery
For blacksmithing and metal casting
For pigment
For medicine and water purification

Charring to preserve house posts from insects and rot

Smudge fires to repel mosquitoes

Fire to repel predators

Heating shelters, etc.

Lighting (torches)

Smoking tobacco and medicines

Cauterizing wounds

Communication - signaling

Steaming

To extract agave fibers
To soften bone and wood for working

antyshemanic · « **Reply #24 on:** February 10, 2007, 09:46:11 AM »

antyshemanic · « **Reply #25 on:** February 10, 2007, 11:29:39 AM »

Quote from: Carolus Magnus

You can't expect me to belive you do not have heating/cooking implements where you live, and I would not expect you to do without these in the contryside either.

Hi Carolus,
Oh yes I have the modern heating equipment,during the few days the water pipes were being repaired my neighbors were boiling or buying water at the store.Thanks to my water filter & purifyer I did not have to do either one.

I think we are looking at this in two angles long & short term stays.
My replies are more to short term camping,that was the impression I had gotten by children & camping being mentioned by Pinoy.
Of coarse having children myself, going camping & living off the land I would not risk without some modern devices for a short term let alone long term unless I had experienced that lifestyle first & knew what I was doing.

Then there are areas that are strict on open fires we have some around here in the mountain & state parks that do not allow them.

CampeadorShin · « **Reply #26 on:** February 10, 2007, 04:08:58 PM »

If you are trying to learn how to start a fire, I suggest you go to your nearby city park, if they let you cook there for picknicks, to practice how to make a fire.

A good firestarter is a cottonball covered in petroleum gelly (vaseline). Just put it under the smaller twigs and sticks and light it.

It should burn long enough to make the smaller sticks burn, and those should burn long enough to make the bigger sticks burn.

Just remember, smoke means the fire isn't getting enough oxygen.

antyshemanic · « **Reply #27 on:** February 10, 2007, 04:48:13 PM »

Quote from: CampeadorShin

If you are trying to learn how to start a fire, I suggest you go to your nearby city park, if they let you cook there for picknicks, to practice how to make a fire.

A good firestarter is a cottonball covered in petroleum gelly (vaseline). Just put it under the smaller twigs and sticks and light it.

It should burn long enough to make the smaller sticks burn, and those should burn long enough to make the bigger sticks burn.

Just remember, smoke means the fire isn't getting enough oxygen.

Hi Camp,
No I don't...I know how.
I just don't want to make one UNLESS I have too.