Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => The Greater Depression - Chapter I => Topic started by: PinoyMonk on December 28, 2006, 03:39:45 PM
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Hello everyone,
I know that we've covered a lot of topics here on CathInfo about what is necessary to do to survive on less fuel (etc.etc.). ChantCD, along with many others, have provided information on tools that could be used to reduce such consumption, and they (the solar oven in particular) were excellent choices in reducing energy usage. The tools and devices are all intriguing, but I've become a bit curious about the less technological options. Surely the Solar Oven (is that the official name? I can't remember...) will function, but is it really something that we could produce in a more primitive setting?
For those of you who are into outdoors types of activities, I'm interested in what skills you can teach (or recommend books/websites). In particular, I'm thinking about primitive methods that we can use to cook, purify water, etc. When you take your children camping, do you want to haul a bunch of equipment with? Perhaps it'd be best to learn to use the tools of the Earth to get the job done. I recognise that we can't get everything as perfectly cleaned or 100% cooked as we're accustomed to within our highly purified environments, but I know that our ancestors did make it this far without most of the modern conveniences.
I wouldn't claim that I'm a part of the Back-to-the-Land movement (or part of any silly hippie group), but I do find some aspects of the simplistic lifestyle quite interesting. For those of you who saw Mel Gibson's most recent film, was it not intriguing to see that these people could indeed survive off of some of the most basic elements in their environment? Again, no, I'm not looking to live in the woods (half-naked), but learning a few woodsmen tricks and skills would be worth my time, I figure.
Any takers? =P
Pinoy Monk
P.S. I wasn't sure which section to put this thread under, so I'd appreciate the mod(s) moving it to the appropriate area if it is not currently already there. Thanks!
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Trinity,
I am indeed asking for some of the more primitive skills, but I guess this is the point I want to make:
In the future, I would like to spend a little more time camping, going hiking, etc. (and not being stuck in urban and suburban areas), so I'd like to have some basic skills in order to survive (without having to carry dozens of pounds of modern tools on my back). I'm hoping this exchange of information will be useful for other people on this forum as well.
Thanks again for your contribution! ^.^
Pinoy Monk
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As to the water, I have absolutely no idea how I'll go about purifying it. Being that I don't have any particular plans to go out into the wilderness, none of this is of any immediate concern, but I figured everyone here would have some excellent ideas.
Obviously, carrying gallon upon gallon of water isn't going to be a genius idea if I want to hike or go any great distance into the woods. Purification tablets are an option, but perhaps I should just stick to boiling and maybe filtering through some sort of sand/dirt/clay thing out in the woods? I've seen sketches around for simple devices, but I don't know much about their effectiveness or their full purposes (to what extent they filter and/or WHAT precisely they dispose of).
Further ideas, Trinity (since you're the only one on this topic so far)?
Pinoy Monk
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Depending on my work/school schedule, I'm hoping to get out sometime during the Summer 2007 (May or June) for at least a long weekend (4ish days) if not for a full week. Depending on where I'll go, I could be at a commercial campsite (fire pit, public toilets, etc.) or out in the middle of nowhere. Any recommendations for good locations in the Midwest?
Thanks,
Pinoy Monk
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Have a good knife at hand. And a hatchet wouldn't hurt either.
Learn how to start a fire.
Learn how to cook with fire.
Learn how to gut animals and prepare them for cookin'.
Learn how to clean water.
Learn how to survive in hot and cold environments.
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Have a good knife at hand. And a hatchet wouldn't hurt either.
Learn how to start a fire.
Learn how to cook with fire.
Learn how to gut animals and prepare them for cookin'.
Learn how to clean water.
Learn how to survive in hot and cold environments.
CampeadorShin,
This are all very good and logical tips, but do you have any practical suggestions as to how I can perform these tasks or where I can go to learn them?
Thanks,
Pinoy Monk
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I'm in Chicago, a bit far. =P
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If I were going camping I would more than likely get me something
for water like below.
Berkey Sport - Portable Water Purifier
The Sport Berkey® Portable Water Purifier is the ideal personal protection traveling companion - featuring the IONIC ADSORPTION MICRO FILTRATION SYSTEM. The theory behind this innovation is simple. The bottle's filter is designed to remove and/or dramatically reduce a vast array of health-threatening contaminants from questionable sources of water, including remote lakes and streams, stagnant ponds and water supplies in foreign countries where regulations may be sub standard, at best.
http://www.disasterstuff.com/shop/pc/372.htm
This site also has other things I might consider taking with me.
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Hmm, Pinoy do you watch Man vs Wild on The Learning Channel(TLC)? YouTube probably has some of the episodes on it.
The host Bear Grylls is in the British Special Forces and the Foreign Legion.
They leave him somewhere with only the camera crew, and they can't help him unless he's in deep trouble.
Sometimes he'll have some equipment like a knife, or he'll use the parachute he dropped in or he'll have some other random object that people carry around.
But watching isn't enough. Ya gotta try and practice til you get the hang of it.
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Well, just like the vast majority of advice here on this forum, the basic message I'm getting here is:
"GO AND DO SOMETHING! PRACTISE!"
I was trying to take the lazy way out and have you guys send me all of the information. What I'd like to do sooner or later is go to some of the local forest preserves and talk with staff there. I'm rather curious as to what local plant life is edible and what uses they have (for herbs, etc.). I don't know if all of them will be terribly useful. In years past, I know that most of these people just say, "Don't eat the plants here." >.< That's not super helpful, but I'm sure I'll find somebody sooner or later... -_-
Any other ideas as to who I can talk to about this sort of thing? There are numerous guidebooks out there, but they can't be as good as learning about LOCAL landscape, plants, etc. from somebody in this area.
Pinoy Monk
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If I lived nearby I'd help ya. :cheers:
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Try primitiveways.com
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I think we can use the Internet to our advantage -- it really works well as a huge library.
I found a great site on building nuclear bunkers (which happened to have many other interesting tidbits on survival) which was totally free and online.
It depends on what you are most interested in -- you should probably learn about many things, but it helps to start with something you're already a bit fascinated by.
I basically try to learn wherever I go -- learn from the wise man and experts! If there are none around you, then you can probably find plenty online.
I hope this helps.
But in short, if you can cut out TV, you'll have a good deal of time to learn/practice SOMETHING which will put you in a better position than you were before -- disaster or no disaster.
It never hurts to know first aid, how to purify water, how to grow vegetables, how to find one's way without a GPS system, etc.
To me, modern man is very SILLY (to say the least) to claim such superiority -- because we have search engines -- but then we personally are ignorant of all those things -- which 12 year olds knew in the 1800's.
Matthew
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Information wise it can all be found online:
Start with the essentials:
First thing you want to put together is a basic survival kit, these can include various items but should be kept small, around the size of a 2oz tobacco tin. Things to include in your survival kit would be:
Matches
Candle
Flint
Magnifying Glass
Needles and thread
Fish hooks and line
compass
Beta light
snare wire (brass wire)
flexible saw
medical items - Codeine phosphate
Immodium
Tetracycline
Benadryl
Water sterilizing tablets
Potassium permanganate
Surgical Blades (two different sized scalpels)
Butterfly Sutures
Plasters
Condom-for carrying water (1 litre capacity)
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To purify water you boil it on your fire simple as that, the water sterilizing tablets I included above are only to be used if you can't start a fire for any reason.
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Thanks for the excellent list, Carolus. And welcome to the forum!
...though I might not want to go out and buy a condom. I can see it now: "It's for carrying water!! I'm not using birth control, everyone!" :clown:
Matthew
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If I were going camping I would more than likely get me something
for water like below.
Berkey Sport - Portable Water Purifier
The Sport Berkey® Portable Water Purifier is the ideal personal protection traveling companion - featuring the IONIC ADSORPTION MICRO FILTRATION SYSTEM. The theory behind this innovation is simple. The bottle's filter is designed to remove and/or dramatically reduce a vast array of health-threatening contaminants from questionable sources of water, including remote lakes and streams, stagnant ponds and water supplies in foreign countries where regulations may be sub standard, at best.
http://www.disasterstuff.com/shop/pc/372.htm
This site also has other things I might consider taking with me.
Interesting thing mentioned in the small print gives some clue to this products actual effectiveness:
Note: If using a source of water that might contain extreme bacteriological or viral contamination, it is recommended that two drops of plain Clorox or iodine be added to each refill before filtering. This will kill minute pathogens such as viruses. The disinfectant will then be filtered from the water entirely removing its odor, color and taste.
Chlorine or Iodine will both purify water on their own and even then will not do as good a job as boiling it, if you need to use them why bother with this thing at all?
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Thanks for the excellent list, Carolus. And welcome to the forum!
...though I might not want to go out and buy a condom. I can see it now: "It's for carrying water!! I'm not using birth control, everyone!" :clown:
Matthew
I understand where your coming from with that, the reason it is so useful is because of it's small size, fits easily into the tobacco tin you see, no one believes you of course.
And thanks for the welcome :dancing:
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I'll add some more stuff later, make sure you actually test something out before you need to use it for real, all that kit is useless if you dont know whats it's for or how to use it effectively.
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Can you burn paper for heat? What about for cooking?
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Can you burn paper for heat? What about for cooking?
paper burns to fast to be the main source of fuel for a fire, it is best used as tinder to start a fire, the main fuel source would have to be something else.
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Interesting thing mentioned in the small print gives some clue to this products actual effectiveness:
Note: If using a source of water that might contain extreme bacteriological or viral contamination, it is recommended that two drops of plain Clorox or iodine be added to each refill before filtering. This will kill minute pathogens such as viruses. The disinfectant will then be filtered from the water entirely removing its odor, color and taste.
Chlorine or Iodine will both purify water on their own and even then will not do as good a job as boiling it, if you need to use them why bother with this thing at all?
I have a 3 gal size that filters up to 13 gal a day.Have been using it for over 5 yrs. with no problem,even tried the lake water in it could not tell any difference in taste. A couple of years ago they were working on the water lines for a few days & the water was a rusty looking color during that time. I did not boil it only added a few drops of clorox nobody got sick.
Well Carolus... if I had a choice between a few drops of clorox or iodine & having to build a fire & then waiting for the water to boil then cool down I would choose the first option with a bottle filter.Simply because its faster & less work.
The only time I would be worried about the water is if it was stagnant or around human or animal waste then I would boil it clorox it & iodine it.
Frankly I don't see having to spend a lot of time boiling water when I don't have too. Just call me lazy. :wink:
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Interesting thing mentioned in the small print gives some clue to this products actual effectiveness:
Note: If using a source of water that might contain extreme bacteriological or viral contamination, it is recommended that two drops of plain Clorox or iodine be added to each refill before filtering. This will kill minute pathogens such as viruses. The disinfectant will then be filtered from the water entirely removing its odor, color and taste.
Chlorine or Iodine will both purify water on their own and even then will not do as good a job as boiling it, if you need to use them why bother with this thing at all?
I have a 3 gal size that filters up to 13 gal a day.Have been using it for over 5 yrs. with no problem,even tried the lake water in it could not tell any difference in taste. A couple of years ago they were working on the water lines for a few days & the water was a rusty looking color during that time. I did not boil it only added a few drops of clorox nobody got sick.
Well Carolus... if I had a choice between a few drops of clorox or iodine & having to build a fire & then waiting for the water to boil then cool down I would choose the first option with a bottle filter.Simply because its faster & less work.
The only time I would be worried about the water is if it was stagnant or around human or animal waste then I would boil it clorox it & iodine it.
Frankly I don't see having to spend a lot of time boiling water when I don't have too. Just call me lazy. :wink:
Thats fine just as long as you realise that boiling it is the most effective way of purifying water out of these three methods. If you already have a heat source it only takes as long as it takes to make a cup of coffee.
In a wilderness or survival situation a fire is essential for more than just purifying water, it also provides heat and allows you to cook food. Considering then that you will almost certainly have a source of heat already, boiling water isn't really that difficult. You can't expect me to belive you do not have heating/cooking implements where you live, and I would not expect you to do without these in the contryside either.
In general an item which has many functions should be preferred over specialist items when you are deciding which equipment is most important to have. A water filter does not allow you to be self sufficent unless you know how to build a replacement when it is lost or stops working, and it will eventually stop working. Likewise unless you know and have the equipment to maufacture Chlorine/Iodine you will eventually run out of these. However anyone can learn to build a fire, giving you the self sufficeny to purify water, heat food, keep your self warm and in more advanced situations even create your own tools.
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Some Uses of Fire
by Norm Kidder
Landscape modification
Coppicing basket materials
Clearing brush for ease of travel and hunting
Removing thatch in late fall to promote wildflower seeds and bulbs for food
Burning meadows in summer to promote seed bearing grasses (weeding and fertilizing)
General burning to revitalize plant communities for greater abundance
Clear ground for food gathering
Hunting
Drive grasshoppers into cooking pit
Drive ground squirrels from holes
Smoke bees from hive
Chase bison and other game over cliff or into trap
Night fishing with torch
Cooking
Roasting on coals or grill
Baking in pit or stone oven
Indirect cooking - as planking salmon
Boiling in clay pot or stone boiling in basket or wooden bowl, etc.
Parching seeds
Steam bending wood
Straighten arrow, dart and spear shafts
Recurve and reflex bows
Bend basket rim sticks
Bend looped stirring sticks for stone boiling
Straighten hand drills for fire making
Smoking hides and meat to preserve
Softening tar and pitch for adhesive
Heat treating stone for tools
Wood working
Burn bowls and spoons
Dugout canoes
Burning down trees
Sharpening and fire hardening digging sticks and spears
General burn and scrape shaping
Making charcoal
For cooking and heating
For smelting metals
For firing pottery
For blacksmithing and metal casting
For pigment
For medicine and water purification
Charring to preserve house posts from insects and rot
Smudge fires to repel mosquitoes
Fire to repel predators
Heating shelters, etc.
Lighting (torches)
Smoking tobacco and medicines
Cauterizing wounds
Communication - signaling
Steaming
To extract agave fibers
To soften bone and wood for working
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You can't expect me to belive you do not have heating/cooking implements where you live, and I would not expect you to do without these in the contryside either.
Hi Carolus,
Oh yes I have the modern heating equipment,during the few days the water pipes were being repaired my neighbors were boiling or buying water at the store.Thanks to my water filter & purifyer I did not have to do either one.
I think we are looking at this in two angles long & short term stays.
My replies are more to short term camping,that was the impression I had gotten by children & camping being mentioned by Pinoy.
Of coarse having children myself, going camping & living off the land I would not risk without some modern devices for a short term let alone long term unless I had experienced that lifestyle first & knew what I was doing.
Then there are areas that are strict on open fires we have some around here in the mountain & state parks that do not allow them.
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If you are trying to learn how to start a fire, I suggest you go to your nearby city park, if they let you cook there for picknicks, to practice how to make a fire.
A good firestarter is a cottonball covered in petroleum gelly (vaseline). Just put it under the smaller twigs and sticks and light it.
It should burn long enough to make the smaller sticks burn, and those should burn long enough to make the bigger sticks burn.
Just remember, smoke means the fire isn't getting enough oxygen.
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If you are trying to learn how to start a fire, I suggest you go to your nearby city park, if they let you cook there for picknicks, to practice how to make a fire.
A good firestarter is a cottonball covered in petroleum gelly (vaseline). Just put it under the smaller twigs and sticks and light it.
It should burn long enough to make the smaller sticks burn, and those should burn long enough to make the bigger sticks burn.
Just remember, smoke means the fire isn't getting enough oxygen.
Hi Camp,
No I don't...I know how.
I just don't want to make one UNLESS I have too. :smirk: