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Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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More Catholic Churches to be closed down
« on: May 21, 2015, 11:57:13 PM »
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  • Our Lady of revenue: NYC churches on the market

    Rick Hampson, USA TODAY
    Mar 1, 2015
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    NEW YORK – Our Lady of Vilnius Church, built by families of immigrant Lithuanian longshoremen, started out a century ago as a beloved worship space. Now, it's a coveted real estate asset.

    Robert Deutsch, USA TODAY
    Our Lady of Peace Church, built in 1866, will close when the parish merges with another on New York City's East Side.
    In 2013, six years after the church was closed, it was sold for $13 million to one of the city's biggest developers. The following year that company flipped it like a pancake to another developer for $18.4 million.
    Now the yellow brick church near the entrance to the Holland Tunnel awaits demolition to make way for an 18-story luxury apartment house.
    "It makes you cynical,'' says Christina Nakraseive, a former parishioner who supported the legal case against the church closing until it was rejected by the state's highest court. "It seems like it's all about real estate.''
    The issue has taken on added significance since the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of New York, citing declining attendance, rising costs and a looming priest shortage, announced plans to merge scores of parishes and close dozens of churches this year.
    The move raises an issue that has been faced by thousands (no one seems to know exactly how many) of shuttered houses of worship across the Northeast and Midwest: What to do with buildings that are often architecturally important and always sentimentally important, especially since a church's shape, age and location make the building hard to reuse?
    The booming residential real estate market in parts of Manhattan and Brooklyn offers a solution, albeit controversial: Demolish them for – or even convert them to housing.
    Several closed churches have been torn down to make way for apartment houses, including Mary Help of Christians in the East Village, which preservationists failed to save.
    A few have been converted to apartments. A developer who paid $13.8 million in 2011 for St. Vincent de Paul Church in the Williamsburg section of Brooklyn turned it into The Spire Lofts, a 40-unit apartment house. A former Pentecostal church in the Greenpoint section was converted into three apartments, each renting for about $100,000 a year. Wood-beamed ceilings and peaked windows remind residents of the building's ecclesiastical roots.
    Several other such projects are in the works. The Episcopal Church of the Redeemer in Brooklyn probably will be torn down, and St. Mark's Evangelical Lutheran Church in the same borough will be converted into apartments, with a triplex in the steeple.
    There are worries that real estate values might undercut Gospel ones.


    Robert Deutsch, USA TODAY
    The Our Lady of Peace Church on East 62nd Street in New York was established by Italian immigrants who felt unwelcome in other parishes.
    Robert Corti worships at Our Lady of Peace, whose red brick 1866 building will close when the parish merges with another on the East Side under the archdiocesan program called "Making All Things New" (which skeptics have dubbed "Making All Things Condo'' or "Making All Things Revenue").
    Our Lady of Peace was established by Italian immigrants who felt unwelcome in other parishes. Corti's grandparents were married there; he, his mother, his aunt, his sister and his grandchildren were all baptized there. He walks eight blocks to go there, even though another church is closer.
    Corti, a former CFO of Avon Products, understands cost cutting and downsizing. But he says closing a church in good physical and fiscal condition will alienate its loyal and generous parishioners.
    The church sits in an official city historic district. Its façade is protected, but the building could be sold and its interior changed or demolished. Corti notes that the ongoing five-year renovation of the 137-year-old St. Patrick's Cathedral in Midtown Manhattan will cost $180 million, of which about $70 million has yet to be raised. That's a big gap,'' he says. As for a possible connection between his church's real estate value and the decision to close it, he wonders, "Could it be a factor? They say not.''

    Robert Deutsch, USA Today
    Robert Corti, a former CFO of Avon Products, worships at Our Lady of Peace Church on East 62nd Street in New York.
    The archdiocese says that some churches in merged parishes will not totally close (Our Lady of Peace may be used on unspecified "special occasions''); those that are closed will not be sold any time soon; and that any sale proceeds will be used to endow things like Catholic schools and religious education – not for archdiocesan operating expenses or St. Patrick's.
    A church closing is not a quick way to turn real estate into cash, if only because it takes time to deconsecrate a church when the process is contested. The 2007 closing of St. Vincent de Paul in Manhattan is still on appeal to the Vatican.
    About a mile uptown from Our Lady of Peace, St. Thomas More parish also finds itself endangered (even though it's not yet clear the parish will be merged with another or what might happen to its buildings, which are not city landmarks).
    St. Thomas More is a rich church in a rich neighborhood. Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis worshiped there, and it was the site of John F. Kennedy Jr.'s memorial service.b Its building, which has a 19th century pastoral elegance, is usually filled on Sunday.
    It's also the parish of The Wall Street Journal's Peggy Noonan, who wrote a testy column in which she reported that parishioners wonder if "the archdiocese is driven by what drove Henry VIII, politics and real estate.''
    She wrote that the church and its land "could bring in $50 million, maybe $100 million, adding: "Any developer would jump at the chance.'' Instead, she suggested that Cardinal Timothy Dolan sell his palatial residence on Madison Avenue.

    Robert Deutsch, USA TODAY
    Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis worshiped at St. Thomas More in New York, and it was the site of John F. Kennedy Jr.'s memorial service.
    In a testy rebuttal, Bishop John O'Hara, a Dolan aide who has supervised the consolidation, wrote that "the process has nothing to do with real estate.''
    Dolan says his archdiocese can't keep spending $40 million a year to support "unneeded'' parishes. "We have too many parishes!'' he wrote in a pastoral letter. "We no longer need 368 parishes in their current locations! … There are 29 parishes in the South Manhattan Vicariate alone — all concentrated on 14th Street or below!''
    It's not just money, Dolan says. The archdiocese will soon face a critical shortage of priests to administer its parishes.
    They no longer include Our Lady of Vilnius, once a touchstone of Lithuanian Catholic identity and closed in 2007 because of what the archdiocese described as a dwindling congregation, a weak roof and a pastor who could not "understand, read or speak Lithuanian.''

    Robert Deutsch, USA TODAY
    Candles at Our Lady of Peace Church in New York City.
    Former parishioners such as Chris Nakraseive still gather occasionally on Sunday to pray outside their old church's locked front doors. They came Thursday, the eighth anniversary of its closing, to display icons, burn candles, sing hymns in Lithuanian and say the Hail Mary.
    They're not the only ones who mourn the church. A neighborhood resident, Laura Barker, also stopped by. "I still miss the sound of the bells"
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    More Catholic Churches to be closed down
    « Reply #1 on: May 22, 2015, 07:58:08 AM »
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  • In an ideal world, those churches that are sold off by the dioceses would be sold to the SSPX or other reputable traditional organizations. But instead, no, it's all about money for apostate Timothy Dolan.
    Tío Samuel, ven pa 'aca


    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    More Catholic Churches to be closed down
    « Reply #2 on: May 22, 2015, 10:44:12 AM »
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  • Those Churches have become the sacred remains of Catholic devotion.  They are gutted of what was beautiful.  Only the shell remains.  They are the orphans of Vatican II.  

    Burial is what they need.  Since they are material edifices, selling them and giving the big check to the very people who delivered death is an insult to the memory of what went before but think of the phrase "New York Minute" and let this pass.  

    Cardinal Dolan should realize that the novus ordites in his diocese may not be Catholic, but they are bright enough to see that it is about real estate.  

    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    More Catholic Churches to be closed down
    « Reply #3 on: May 22, 2015, 12:09:19 PM »
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  • Quote from: Capt McQuigg
    Those Churches have become the sacred remains of Catholic devotion.  They are gutted of what was beautiful.  Only the shell remains.  They are the orphans of Vatican II.  

    Burial is what they need.  Since they are material edifices, selling them and giving the big check to the very people who delivered death is an insult to the memory of what went before but think of the phrase "New York Minute" and let this pass.  

    Cardinal Dolan should realize that the novus ordites in his diocese may not be Catholic, but they are bright enough to see that it is about real estate.  


    Cardinal Dolan is not Catholic. He marched along with the gays in the annual gay parade
    in NYC. And was in, and participated with the gays in the recent St. Patrick's Day
    Parade.
    Cardinal Dolan and many of his types wants to eradicate the last vestiges of Traditional
    Roman Catholicism.
    I was invited to visit a novus order parochial school. Along with the crucifix, was a Buddha
    statue, and symbols of other pagan religions, and including the star of david and the jewish
    menorah.
    The first communion class was only 12. In my first communion class were over 100
    children in 1956.
    The first communion class of 12 took communion standing and in the hand. And I doubt
    they really knew anything about their faith.

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    More Catholic Churches to be closed down
    « Reply #4 on: May 22, 2015, 12:13:23 PM »
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  • Quote from: RomanCatholic1953

    I was invited to visit a novus order parochial school. Along with the crucifix, was a Buddha
    statue, and symbols of other pagan religions, and including the star of david and the jewish
    menorah.
    The first communion class was only 12. In my first communion class were over 100
    children in 1956.
    The first communion class of 12 took communion standing and in the hand. And I doubt
    they really knew anything about their faith.


    I feel that pain too!  

    When you visited this novus ordo school and saw the idols from false religions, did you mention it to anyone?  What was the general attitude of the teachers of this school?  



    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    More Catholic Churches to be closed down
    « Reply #5 on: May 22, 2015, 01:09:29 PM »
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  • Quote from: Capt McQuigg
    Quote from: RomanCatholic1953

    I was invited to visit a novus order parochial school. Along with the crucifix, was a Buddha
    statue, and symbols of other pagan religions, and including the star of david and the jewish
    menorah.
    The first communion class was only 12. In my first communion class were over 100
    children in 1956.
    The first communion class of 12 took communion standing and in the hand. And I doubt
    they really knew anything about their faith.


    I feel that pain too!  

    When you visited this novus ordo school and saw the idols from false religions, did you mention it to anyone?  What was the general attitude of the teachers of this school?  

    [/quote

    In my day over 50 years ago, the majority of the teachers in my parochial school were
    Nun's. One or two were lay teachers. The tuition was only $5.00 a month. Every Sunday
    Mass celebrated from 6:AM to 12: Noon in a Church built in 1955 to hold at lease 500
    people with cry rooms with Mother's with their infants.
    I did mentioned that false religions and idols in Catholic Classrooms and was told that
    it came from Vatican 2, and that we have to obey the Pope, and the Bishop of the
    Diocese.  That everybody is saved. Conversions is not necessary.
    The Parochial School that I graduated in 1962 Still exists. However, The school has the
    reputation as the most Liberal in the archdiocese of Los Angeles. :incense:
     

    Offline Matto

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    More Catholic Churches to be closed down
    « Reply #6 on: May 22, 2015, 02:12:20 PM »
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  • Quote from: RomanCatholic1953
    Cardinal Dolan is not Catholic.

    If you find a Novus Ordo Bishop or Cardinal who is Catholic let me know.
    In a Station of the Metro
    The apparition of these faces in the crowd;
    Petals on a wet, black bough.

    Offline Prayerful

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    More Catholic Churches to be closed down
    « Reply #7 on: May 22, 2015, 07:06:46 PM »
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  • The Novus Ordo bishop would rather sell it to Pentecostals or Buddhists rather than anyone traditional be they SSPX, SSPX-MC, CMRI or whoever.


    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    More Catholic Churches to be closed down
    « Reply #8 on: May 23, 2015, 01:08:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: RomanCatholic1953
    Cardinal Dolan is not Catholic.

    If you find a Novus Ordo Bishop or Cardinal who is Catholic let me know.


    I really doubt that you can find today a true Catholic Bishop.

    They all been infected with heresy.

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    More Catholic Churches to be closed down
    « Reply #9 on: May 24, 2015, 06:35:10 AM »
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  • They are closing mostly beautiful historical churches while keeping modern open for the next phase of destruction of Catholicism:



       
    Church of the Holy Family
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    "A new way to celebrate an ancient faith"

    Who are we?
    The Church of the Holy Family is an ecumenical Catholic faith community comprised of Christians from many faith traditions who seek to make the richness of Catholic spirituality and tradition available and accessible to all. Our community, a member of the growing Ecumenical Catholic Communion, is made up of former Episcopalians, Lutherans, and Protestants as well as, many people who, for some reason, have felt excluded from the Roman Catholic Church.

    We are "ecumenical" because we promote worldwide Christian unity and cooperation. Our members include individuals who feel excluded from their faith traditions. We recognize the dignity of all people regardless of their race, national origin, gender, or sexual orientation.

    Our ecumenical spirituality allows all to receive the sacraments available through our Catholic tradition. We welcome all to the Lord's table at our Mass celebration.


          
          


    Please visit the Events page for the latest information on things happening

    Sunday afternoon writers

    will not be happening thru the end of the year. Check the calendar for information on when it will restart after the new year.
    It's Bunco time again

    Saturday May 30, mark your calendar and check back for details.
    7:00pm. Bring your Friends, Neighbors and Family.
    Celtic Mass

    THE Celtic Mass is moving…but only in July!. Mark your calendar.
    We are scheduled to celebrate on July 4th. Since that is a pretty important holiday to the United States of America
    we will be moving our Celtic Mass to July 11th at 5 PM.
    If you accidentally show up on the 4th, please proceed to Old Chicago,
    have a cold beverage and enjoy a ball game on the big screen!
    The blessing of God be upon you all! Father Scott

          
        
    All are welcome at

    Church of the Holy Family Catholic Community
    A member of the Ecumenical-Catholic-Communion. Come join us Sunday for Mass
    We are located at:
    16738 E. Iliff Ave
    Aurora, CO 80013-1135
    Tel: (303) 369-9000

    Todays Date: Sunday, May 24, 2015.
    Upcoming Events

    Sunday, May 24
    10:00am   Sunday Mass, 16738 E. Iliff Ave,Aurora, CO 80014 Behind Discount Tires & Brakes Plus in a Store Front.
     
    Monday, May 25
    All Day   Church & Office Closed for Holiday
    6:00pm   Meditation w/Rev. Kathleen, Church of the Holy Family
     
    Wednesday, May 27
    6:30pm   Choir Reheasal, Holy Family
     
    Saturday, May 30
    9:00am   Art of Preaching by George VonStamtz, Holy Family
    7:00pm   4th Annual BUNCO PARTY
     
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    « Reply #10 on: May 24, 2015, 12:12:25 PM »
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  • It does hurt to see all of this happen.  I'm sorry for bringing it up.
    St Athanasious is right.  They have our buildings but we have the Faith.  

    The Church closings were a blessing, it brought many of us closer to God and the true faith.
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)


    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    More Catholic Churches to be closed down
    « Reply #11 on: May 24, 2015, 12:41:15 PM »
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  • Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey
    They are closing mostly beautiful historical churches while keeping modern open for the next phase of destruction of Catholicism:



       
    Church of the Holy Family
    a member of the
    Ecumenical Catholic Communion
       
       
    Home
    Distinctives
    Contact Us
    Homilies
    Homilies
    Celtic Mass
    Archive 2015
    Archive 2014
    Archive 2013
    Archive 2012
    Archive 2011
    Archive 2010
    Events
    Outreach
    Weddings
    Links
    Celtic Music
    Photo Gallery
    Clergy and Staff
    Leadership
    **********
    Member Ads
    Rocky Mountain
    Regional Council
     

    Mission Statement
    To be an inclusive family in Christ celebrating our Catholic tradition in an atmosphere of acceptance and support; sharing ourselves and our gifts with each other and our community.
    We are committed to the spiritual formation of all members and welcome all those who desire a relationship with God.


     Old Holy Family Facebook
    Holy Family Colorado-ECC
    Celtic Art By:
     
       



          
        
    "A new way to celebrate an ancient faith"

    Who are we?
    The Church of the Holy Family is an ecumenical Catholic faith community comprised of Christians from many faith traditions who seek to make the richness of Catholic spirituality and tradition available and accessible to all. Our community, a member of the growing Ecumenical Catholic Communion, is made up of former Episcopalians, Lutherans, and Protestants as well as, many people who, for some reason, have felt excluded from the Roman Catholic Church.

    We are "ecumenical" because we promote worldwide Christian unity and cooperation. Our members include individuals who feel excluded from their faith traditions. We recognize the dignity of all people regardless of their race, national origin, gender, or sexual orientation.

    Our ecumenical spirituality allows all to receive the sacraments available through our Catholic tradition. We welcome all to the Lord's table at our Mass celebration.


          
          


    Please visit the Events page for the latest information on things happening

    Sunday afternoon writers

    will not be happening thru the end of the year. Check the calendar for information on when it will restart after the new year.
    It's Bunco time again

    Saturday May 30, mark your calendar and check back for details.
    7:00pm. Bring your Friends, Neighbors and Family.
    Celtic Mass

    THE Celtic Mass is moving…but only in July!. Mark your calendar.
    We are scheduled to celebrate on July 4th. Since that is a pretty important holiday to the United States of America
    we will be moving our Celtic Mass to July 11th at 5 PM.
    If you accidentally show up on the 4th, please proceed to Old Chicago,
    have a cold beverage and enjoy a ball game on the big screen!
    The blessing of God be upon you all! Father Scott

          
        
    All are welcome at

    Church of the Holy Family Catholic Community
    A member of the Ecumenical-Catholic-Communion. Come join us Sunday for Mass
    We are located at:
    16738 E. Iliff Ave
    Aurora, CO 80013-1135
    Tel: (303) 369-9000

    Todays Date: Sunday, May 24, 2015.
    Upcoming Events

    Sunday, May 24
    10:00am   Sunday Mass, 16738 E. Iliff Ave,Aurora, CO 80014 Behind Discount Tires & Brakes Plus in a Store Front.
     
    Monday, May 25
    All Day   Church & Office Closed for Holiday
    6:00pm   Meditation w/Rev. Kathleen, Church of the Holy Family
     
    Wednesday, May 27
    6:30pm   Choir Reheasal, Holy Family
     
    Saturday, May 30
    9:00am   Art of Preaching by George VonStamtz, Holy Family
    7:00pm   4th Annual BUNCO PARTY
     


    I looked them up and they're affiliated with the Old Catholics, so they had nothing to do with Rome in the first place. Notice the female name listed as one of the "clergy".
    Tío Samuel, ven pa 'aca

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    More Catholic Churches to be closed down
    « Reply #12 on: May 24, 2015, 12:57:12 PM »
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  • I missed that.  They shouldn't be legally allowed to call themselves "Catholic" since they aren't connected to Rome.
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Offline songbird

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    More Catholic Churches to be closed down
    « Reply #13 on: May 25, 2015, 02:21:29 PM »
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  • This is called by the New Order as "Restructuring".  This was told to the people and nation years, years ago.  They are not to be surprised.  There is more to come under the "Restructuring".  Priest will resign and women will come on. Also celibacy will be an option.

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    « Reply #14 on: May 26, 2015, 08:24:19 AM »
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  • Quote from: songbird
    This is called by the New Order as "Restructuring".  This was told to the people and nation years, years ago.  They are not to be surprised.  There is more to come under the "Restructuring".  Priest will resign and women will come on. Also celibacy will be an option.


    More phases to come.  We were part of group to fight the Church closings.  
    So many lies and corruption.  People who died and donated money to their parish is missing and no one knows anything.  

    Yes, women priests are next.  Where we live they have grown women altar servers who sit on altar with the priest.  The diocese already has Protestant minister newly converted to Catholicism with wife, children as head pastor of one of the biggest parishes of the diocese.  ( at one of the most ugliest buildings I have ever seen.  



    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

     

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