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Offline Matthew

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Hyperinflationary Depression coming
« on: June 11, 2014, 01:21:42 AM »
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  • HYPERINFLATIONARY DEPRESSION – NO WAY OF AVOIDING FINANCIAL ARMAGEDDON
    If you’ve never heard of or read a report from John Williams, then today is your (un)lucky day. Mr. Williams’, founder of Shadow Stats,  is the economic analyst that has brought us the real, unadultered statistics for unemployment (22%) and real GDP (-5.5%) and Inflation (6%).

    2TrillionDollarBill

    According to Mr. Williams’ most recent report on the economy, things are not as good as they may seem. In fact, they’re a whole lot worse than what most people can even imagine.

    The U.S. economic and systemic solvency crises of the last two years are just precursors to a Great Collapse: a hyperinflationary great depression. Such will reflect a complete collapse in the purchasing power of the U.S. dollar, a collapse in the normal stream of U.S. commercial and economic activity, a collapse in the U.S. financial system as we know it, and a likely realignment of the U.S. political environment. The current U.S. financial markets, financial system and economy remain highly unstable and vulnerable to unexpected shocks. The Federal Reserve is dedicated to preventing deflation, to debasing the U.S. dollar. The results of those efforts are being seen in tentative selling pressures against the U.S. currency and in the rallying price of gold.
    It could not get any more serious than this. If Mr. Williams’ is correct, and his stats and analysis have proven to be right on target thus far, then we are in for what Gerald Celente has said will be like nothing we’ve ever seen in our lifetime.

    Looking at each of Mr. William’s points from a worst case scenario perspective, here are some things one can expect.

    Collapse of Purchasing Power
    Imagine stock markets initially rising to new highs. While many in the public will truly believe we are in a new boom time, the reality will be that prices on everyday goods will be increasing at a rapid rate. Hyperinflation will not be recognized right away, but eventually the public will catch on. Howard Katz has written that we can expect price increases of 70% within a year or two. Imagine gas at $7 – $8 a gallon, a can of tuna for $3 and your favorite flavored latte for $10. This will be the opening act and primary indicator that the system is getting to a breaking point.
    Collapse in the normal stream of U.S. commercial and economic activity
    As the purchasing power of the dollar diminishes, foreign creditors and suppliers will become concerned. Even short-term credit extensions for essential goods like food and oil will collapse. If you’ve read about what happened in Iceland in 2008, you’ll have a pretty good idea, except the population needing essential goods is about 1000 times the size of Iceland’s (pop. 300,000). When Iceland’s currency collapsed, the government was unable to purvey basic food goods from international sources because their currency was no longer trusted. Expect to see store inventories slowly (or perhaps quickly) lower, from basic foods to apparel. If the dollar were to go Zimbabwe, then it would be nearly impossible for merchants and suppliers to accurately price goods, leading to daily, perhaps hourly price changes. The effects of this type of currency collapse will infect every aspect of the economy, leading to mass layoffs and a sudden stop in transportation via trucks, rail and dryships. Trade goods will cease to move across the nation.
    Collapse in the U.S. financial system
    If you haven’t read James Rawles’ book Patriots, do so. The opening two chapters deal with exactly the scenario forecasted by John Williams. As mentioned, we will see stock prices and stock markets probably go through the roof initially, in nominal dollar terms. But, once it is realized that the dollar has been destroyed, along with all US denominated paper assets, we may see a shut-down of US Stock markets. While there may certainly be other signals, a freeze in the trading of stocks as a result of hyperinflationary pressure on the US Dollar should be a warning alarm to all of those with a bug-out location. Complete system collapse will not be far behind- — and we could literally be talking days, not weeks or months.
    uscrises

    Realignment of the U.S. political environment
    It may be hard to believe, but it is certainly not outside the realm of possibility. The political system as we know it, like voting for representatives, may deteriorate quickly, meaning that martial law may need to be implemented. It is no secret that President Obama will have 1 million US military soldiers on the ready by the end of January 2010 to deal with just such a scenario. Local law enforcement and emergency services will break down, as responders will opt to protect their own families. This will force the hand of the Federal Government, as there will be no police to deal with looting, violent crime, and civil unrest resulting from a collapse in trade and essential supplies.
    If Mr. Williams’ forecast plays out as described, then preparation will be a key to survival. As Mr. Williams points out, and many observers feel deep down, the problems that have been pushed into the future have now come home to roost:

    Indeed, pushing the big problems into the future appears to have been the working strategy for both the Fed and recent Administrations. Yet, the U.S. dollar and the budget deficit do matter, and the future is at hand. The day of ultimate financial reckoning has arrived, and it is playing out.
    How much time do we have? We have heard Dr. Marc Faber, who suggests that it could happen quickly, by 2012, or even later, around 2018. Mr. Williams, has recently adjusted his timelines based on the data he is interpreting:

    The intensifying economic and solvency crises, and the responses to both by the U.S. government and the Federal Reserve in the last two years, have exacerbated the government’s solvency issues and moved forward my timing estimation for the hyperinflation to the next five years, from the 2010 to 2018 timing range estimated in the prior report. The U.S. government and Federal Reserve already have committed the system to this course through the easy politics of a bottomless pocketbook, the servicing of big-moneyed special interests, gross mismanagement, and a deliberate and ongoing effort to debase the U.S. currency. Accordingly, risks are particularly high of the hyperinflation crisis breaking within the next year.
    This may not necessarily mean that by the end of 2010 we will be living like Road Warriors, but the system is under so much pressure, that we may begin to see the initial effects very soon, as discussed above.

    For those who hope for change, we’re sorry to inform you that it isn’t coming, because it is too late:

    The U.S. has no way of avoiding a financial Armageddon. Bankrupt sovereign states most commonly use the currency printing press as a solution to not having enough money to cover obligations. The alternative would be for the U.S. to renege on its existing debt and obligations, a solution for modern sovereign states rarely seen outside of governments overthrown in revolution, and a solution with no happier ending than simply printing the needed money. With the creation of massive amounts of new fiat dollars (not backed by gold or silver) will come the eventual destruction of the value of the U.S. dollar and related dollar-denominated paper assets.
    Folks, if Mr. Williams and others are right about this, then I am afraid that we are going to experience something in the United States that will be written about for centuries in the history books (if the whole planet doesn’t get wiped out by a nuke war before it’s all said and done).

    What can be done now? The answer is nothing. It is just time.

    Zero Hedge opines:

    Take away the fiat illusion, and the real value collapses to those concepts of tangible value that will remain in a post bubble implosion scenario: whether these be spam, gold, or lead.
    We’ll be publishing a basic primer on prepping your SHTF Plan for Hyperinflationary collapse, but for now, we urge our readers to consider Mr. Williams’ analysis and take some advice from Zero Hedge. Consider reserve foods and  precious metals . Of course there are other preps that one can make, including the acquisition of self defense weapons and finding a longer-term bug out locations outside of major cities. You do not want to be in suburbia if the above scenarios unfold.

    When it hits the fan, don’t say we didn’t warn you.
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    Offline ggreg

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    Hyperinflationary Depression coming
    « Reply #1 on: June 11, 2014, 12:59:15 PM »
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  • So at some point in the future there is economic collapse.

    Hardly a revelation is it?  A quick glance at history will give you a dozen or more such collapses.  Collapses of governements, currencies, economies and empires.  They have always happened.

    Being "warned" decades before is not particularly useful.  What are people supposed to do in the meantime given they don't know how much meantime there is.  The response if the collapse comes next month is very different than if it comes in 20 years.

    I know people who have had a bunker mentality since Assisi II.  They were convinced that JP2's apostacy was going to call down a divine chastisement.  September 11th 2001 looked like a real history making moment.  The problem is that people who radically altered their life, job, home, or spent a large proportion of their income "prepping" rather than just getting on with their life and family and job have essentially wasted much of the last decade or three.

    Back in 2007 we were told that the writing was on the wall and the "bailout would not work" or that they we just kicking the can a few months down the road and hyperinflation was just around the corner but here we are in 2014 and it still the US and Global Economy has not collapses.  It may of course tomorrow perhaps, but then that was ALWAYS a possibility.  Nobody knows what will happen tomorrow, that is why it is called "the future".

    Without a timeline warnings of future events are useless and not worth concerning yourself with.  Just crack on, worry about today's problems and leave tomorrow to take care of itself.  Many of the posters on this forum clearly have a lot of problems simply operating in a fully functioning first world economy.  In a doomsday scenario they are going to be amongst the first to die.

    The people who "crack on" will adapt and learn the new rules, just as they learned the old rules.

    One lesson from history is that "anarchy" never lasts very long.


    Offline JohnGrey

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    Hyperinflationary Depression coming
    « Reply #2 on: June 11, 2014, 04:57:32 PM »
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  • I disagree for two reasons.  First, hyperinflation is caused by devaluation of currency and flight into sound alternative currency.  There is no alternative currency into which one can flee; the rot is globally systemic.  And for those who think precious metals are the answer, legally such commodities are not fungible nor are they readily assessable versus core consumable goods.  If you don't think so, try setting up an exchange system using them and see how long it takes for the secret service to show up at your door.

    Second, while currency debasement has increased the nominal cost of goods significantly in the near term, runaway appreciation of assets is impossible on a forward basis without a mechanism which permits wages to remain apace with this inflation to a degree sufficient to keep producers of goods afloat.  Because of wage destruction (offshoring, illegal alien employment, etc.), adjusted for inflation, wages have stagnated for 30 years.

    Offline PerEvangelicaDicta

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    Hyperinflationary Depression coming
    « Reply #3 on: June 11, 2014, 05:07:45 PM »
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  • Quote
    Second, while currency debasement has increased the nominal cost of goods significantly in the near term, runaway appreciation of assets is impossible on a forward basis without a mechanism which permits wages to remain apace with this inflation to a degree sufficient to keep producers of goods afloat.  Because of wage destruction (offshoring, illegal alien employment, etc.), adjusted for inflation, wages have stagnated for 30 years.


    I just heard someone on a radio station say the same (possibly Republic Broadcast Network).   I wish I could remember his name - it was a very informative interview, as is your comment.

    Offline ggreg

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    Hyperinflationary Depression coming
    « Reply #4 on: June 12, 2014, 01:25:16 AM »
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  • The secret service can only act against a very limited number of players.  If 5 percent of society are operating a black market there is bugger all they can do about it.  Example, there was a huge black market in the Soviet Union which they tried to stamp out but could not.

    How are the secret service doing against illegal drugs?

    You are assuming a level of law and order that won't be there if Precious metals need to be used as a means of exchange.  As soon as that level of law and order exists then paper currencies will be trusted again.


    Offline JohnGrey

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    Hyperinflationary Depression coming
    « Reply #5 on: June 12, 2014, 08:47:22 AM »
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  • Quote from: ggreg
    The secret service can only act against a very limited number of players.  If 5 percent of society are operating a black market there is bugger all they can do about it.  Example, there was a huge black market in the Soviet Union which they tried to stamp out but could not.

    How are the secret service doing against illegal drugs?

    You are assuming a level of law and order that won't be there if Precious metals need to be used as a means of exchange.  As soon as that level of law and order exists then paper currencies will be trusted again.


    While the Secret Service, indeed any government agency, is limited in terms of manpower and resources, I don't believe you can reasonably equate the two objects of policing activity.  The worst that illegal narcotics can do in terms of economic impact is take personal expenditure by consumers away from legitimate enterprise, and with the recent spate of legalization for medical and recreational consumption of cannabis, which is by far the one most frequently used, and the ensuing taxation, even that is being mitigated.  On the other hand, adoption of alternative currency as an actual and widespread medium of exchange, as I stated in my original post, has the capacity to do incredible damage to an economy which is denominated in a currency whose value is but a tiny fraction of that alternative currency, and whose value would only decrease as adoption of it became more widespread.  Do you truly think it unlikely that, in the face of massive devaluation of reserves, and even the personal wealth of the agents involved, that such activity would not receive the greatest and most violent attention?

    But let's look at the operative, or real, fungibility of precious metals in present-day America.  As I see it, there are three main problems to this:

    1.) Price assignment of real goods - There does not exist in this country, or really anywhere, an easily graspable understanding of the real value of goods vs precious metals, as regards what constitutes a fair price.  Nor is a price easily fixable in that regard, since precious medals no longer possess a face value, which leads to my second point...

    2.) Fractional denomination - Most assayers of precious metals do not have fractional denomination of their commodities, and those that do, denominate according to fractions of actual content rather than that of any ascribed nominal value.  For example an ounce of gold might be fine for purchasing a draft horse, but what about seed for a season's planting, which might have a real value of 0.3, 0.42, 0.51 oz. of gold.  How does one pay for that reasonably, take out a hammer and chisel and cut a corner off a krugerrand?

    3.) Availability - This is by far the greatest hindrance to such adoption, and it's not merely a question of physical availability in the commercial sense.  It is not just conceivable, but almost certain, that the US government, if faced with increasing adoption of precious medals as functional currency, could curtail the practice quite effectively by targeting metal brokers, for the same reason that, when financial dislocation does come, attempting to convert precious metals into any other currency would be meaningless: they would simply pass legislation, or executive fiat, establishing a draconian capital gains tax on the sale of precious metals to render it, for all intents, impossible to find.  If metal brokers cannot make a reasonable profit from the sale, they won't bother to sell it, and the average citizen has no meaningful access to precious metals directly.

    Offline ggreg

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    Hyperinflationary Depression coming
    « Reply #6 on: June 12, 2014, 09:35:47 AM »
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  • There are smaller coins that 1oz.  10th of an ounce coins are practical.  That is $150 worth

    You don't cut the corner of a $100 bill either.  You exchange it for two 50s or five 20s.

    Then there is also silver which would be good for anything from a couple of dollars up in coin size.

    People have gold in Jєωelry and rings.

    The people with the gold would be the new kings and rulers and one could exchange goods and services for precious metals.

    I don't think we are headed for that much of a breakdown, but, in the event we were, if I had a surplus of something and you had nothing to barter with me that I wanted at that moment I would take gold and silver from you in exchange.  If it was a melted down ring or a hallmarked ring I could weigh it and estimate the value.

    People establish the value of all manner or weird things, from rare stamps to "equipment" in virtual world video games so I have little doubt that the price of precious metals could be established locally also.

    It might vary of course in which case there would be arbitrage opportunities.

    "The worst that illegal narcotics can do in terms of economic impact is take personal expenditure by consumers away from legitimate enterprise".

     :furtive:You obviously don't spend time with many US employers.  I can assure you that the number of workers using illegal narcotics causes, in their view, a very large economic impact in terms of lost productivity and management overhead.  And it is getting worse.

    Offline Truth is Eternal

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    Hyperinflationary Depression coming
    « Reply #7 on: June 13, 2014, 09:39:02 AM »
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  • Quote from: ggreg
    The secret service can only act against a very limited number of players.  If 5 percent of society are operating a black market there is bugger all they can do about it.  Example, there was a huge black market in the Soviet Union which they tried to stamp out but could not.

    How are the secret service doing against illegal drugs?

    You are assuming a level of law and order that won't be there if Precious metals need to be used as a means of exchange.  As soon as that level of law and order exists then paper currencies will be trusted again.


    The secret service is making lots of money helping to keep people hooked on illegal drugs.
    "I Think it is Time Cathinfo Has a Public Profession of Belief." "Thank you for publicly affirming the necessity of believing, without innovations, all Infallibly Defined Dogmas of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church."


    Offline Tiffany

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    Hyperinflationary Depression coming
    « Reply #8 on: June 17, 2014, 07:04:10 AM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Bankrupt sovereign states most commonly use the currency printing press as a solution to not having enough money to cover obligations. The alternative would be for the U.S. to renege on its existing debt and obligations, a solution for modern sovereign states rarely seen outside of governments overthrown in revolution, and a solution with no happier ending than simply printing the needed money. .


    This part of the fear mongering article is true, either the US inflates the dollar so we can pay back China for our wars or we default and the world ends. Inflating the dollar has been going on for decades though.

    Don't buy gold.