Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => The Greater Depression - Chapter I => Topic started by: ThatBritPapist on January 28, 2025, 12:32:29 PM
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To take our minds off a little bit from the Bishop Williamson situation, I wanted to ask the Ex Seminarians on here a more lighthearted question on funny moments from your days as a seminarian.
I know we have had a similar thread on it during the past but worth telling more! I also got inspiration after reading the comments about the Bp Williamson fake death prank from STAS.
Hope to read some good stories!
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A priest ordained by +Bp. Williamson told me an amusing anecdote from his days as a seminarian. There was a young man whose handwriting was illegible. He often couldn’t read his own notes from class, and his graded assignments were equally poor.
Tired of trying to decipher his assignments, His Excellency required him to spend a half hour per day in his office copying spiritual writings in his best cursive hand. How long it took, but by the time he was ordained, this priest had a beautiful cursive hand.
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A priest ordained by +Bp. Williamson told me an amusing anecdote from his days as a seminarian. There was a young man whose handwriting was illegible. He often couldn’t read his own notes from class, and his graded assignments were equally poor.
Tired of trying to decipher his assignments, His Excellency required him to spend a half hour per day in his office copying spiritual writings in his best cursive hand. How long it took, but by the time he was ordained, this priest had a beautiful cursive hand.
Yes, I believe I know who this was. I'm shocked that His Excellency didn't subject me to the same treatment. I can read my own writing, but no one else can ... and now it's deteriorated even worse, since I rarely write cursive anymore but 99.9999% of the time am on a keyboard.
I had a teacher in High School (Jesuit High School) throw out one of my tests due to the handwriting, saying "I'm not going to try reading this crap." He ripped it up in front of me, making that comment and adding that I was getting a 0 for the test, and I didn't even react apart from shrugging my shoulders. Despite getting that 0, he gave me an A in the class because the thing he hated most were the people that only cared about their grade point average rather than about what they learned. He called them "grade grubbers."
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So, I arrived at the seminary about a week earlier than I was required to report during a very hot and humid late August in Winona, MN in 1989. I had no idea where to go, not knowing the layout of the place, so I walked into the chapel, and there was a single seminarian in there, praying, but he saw us, wearing lay clothes, and realizing therefrom that we were newbies, came over, helping us get to where we needed to go. He would later be ordained as Father Steven Soos. Interesting that he greeted me there, as we're both of Hungarian ancestry, he on his father's side, and I on both sides.
Turns out that getting there early was a terrible mistake ... except for the great merit to be acquired from some significant penance. I had thought I'd be able to prepare spiritually for beginning life as a seminarian, praying, studying, etc. Instead we were subjected to backbraking labor in the serious heat (and humidity) there in Minnesota (people don't realize how hot and humid ... due to the lakes ... it got up there in the Summers, and then later with a black cassock on and no air conditioning, it was tough ... but we didn't have cassocks yet of course). We had to carry lots of furniture (as in very heavy solid wood stuff, and large pieces since they were like pews and large classroom tables) a very long way across the grounds.
In any case, on the second day after our arrival, one of the two other guys I had given a ride up to Winona from the Cleveland / Akron area simply no-showed from the work detail. So I went looking for him and eventually found him kicked back in a chair with a large fan blasting him (he had gone into town to purchase it), so I asked him what was up, and he responded, holding up his hands, "These hands were made for chalices, not callouses." ... and then laughed. So, this guy was, how would you put it?, of the extremely effeminate orientation, complete with some hand gestures and even the lissssp. On the trip up, we had the windows open to get air, and he was in the back seat when some rather large moth flew suddenly in through the window. I had never in my life, and never since, heard such a loud ear-piercing, blood-curdling, girlish scream as I heard emanating from the back seat. I had to pull the car off the side of the road until we could evict the moth. In his defense, sortof, it was very dark, and the moth was very large, so we really didn't know what had just flown in the window. But had he been dirving the car, we all likely would have died. Now, it should have been obvious to me at the time, but I withheld judgment, not only out of charity for him, but also out of charity and respect for the SSPX, believing that certainly the SSPX would have vetted this guy, at least interviewed him, as his effeminacy was over-the-top obvious. He would register on a proverbial gαydar with a scale from 1-10 at about a very solid 12. I later confirmed it to be true, nor is this detraction, first because you don't know the guy, and second because I later found (when the internet got better) that he had actually headed up an LGBT group as his college campus near me and he was interviewed in the newspaper in Akron (so it's public info). Now, as I said, this was late 1980s so the SSPX had no good way of finding this info out, since this wouldn't have been on the internet, but I had assumed everyone would have gone on a visit, that this guy had been vetted, especially for you-know-what, since his effeminacy was over the top ... and so I concluded that it was just my perception and withheld judgment, assuming they would have found out that it was JUST effeminacy. It wasn't. And in retrospect, I'm shocked they didn't at least pay a bit of money for a background check on people, as it would have uncovered his very public and vocal LGBT advocacy.
So, first year seminarians were required to take a class named "Acts of the Magisterium", taught by Bishop Williamson himself. That was one of THE best classes at STAS, and I learned more there than in many of the others combined. That was an introduction to the crisis in the Church from the perspective of the Magisterium, and it's where Bishop Williamson traced it all the way back to the Renaissance/Enlightenment (giving a lot of detail). So, during either the first or second day of class, very early on at any rate, His Excellency asked us to take out a small scrap of paper for us to write down an answer to a question and then turn it over so no one could see their answers. He asked everyone how many Jews had been killed during the h0Ɩ0cαųst. I wrote down 0 myself, since there was no "h0Ɩ0cαųst", even if a certain number of Jews did die or even were executed during WW2. So Bishop Williamson walked up and down the aisles, asking people one at a time to turn over their paper as he walked by to see their answer. He made no comments and then just asked everyone to throw away their answer, evidently filing it away in his prodigious memory. I think this was a brilliant move, so he could see which seminarians had been brainwashed and might be in need of some deprogramming.
Then, by the end of the very first week of class, this aforementioned extremely effeminate individual that I gave a ride to told me he was leaving the seminary. I asked him, if he didn't mind saying, why he was leaving, telling him that it's fine if it's none of my business. So he told me that he just couldn't accept Bishop Williamson's "Anti-Semitism." So Bishop Williamson's "Anti-Semitism" saved the world from this guy ever getting ordained. While that's a plausible explanation, given how liberal this guy was, it's also equally possible that he was released on account of his overt appearance of having sodomitical tendencies.
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We had spiritual conferences just about every day at about 5:00 PM, just before Rosary and then dinner. If I recall, on Thursdays we had benediction along with the Rosary, and so no spiritual conference. These were just talks given by the various seminary professors about random (usually but not necessarily) spiritual topics. Bishop Williamson usually did the one on Mondays while the other professors there took the other days of the week.
I feel bad for the other professors, because Bishop Williamson was a very hard act to follow ... where the rest were boring by comparison (even though they were certainly solid on their own). His Excellency used to tell seminarians that their sermons should not go beyond 10 minutes, but then he himself would go on regularly for 40 minutes. But never have I heard a speaker such as Bishop Williamson, where he's just so captivating and interesting, that you don't even notice the passage of time and are disappointed when he's done 60 minutes later and wishing he would keep going. I've encountered some Traditional priests who tried it during Masses, but by 20-25 minutes in, the faithful were all squirming in their pews and checking their watches. Not so with Bishop Williamson.
On some days when His Excellency wasn't scheduled to speak, he would actually walk in the room unexpectedly, when either the regular speaker had some other obligation or there was some relatively-pressing matter he wished to discuss, and we were excited to get a bonus talk.
Some weeks into the year, His Excellency mentioned that he had heard that some seminarians were misinterpreting a certain section of the rule. So, this particular provision had caused me consernation as well. It said that seminarians should shower once a week. So, evidently, many of us, myself included, had interpreted this as meaning we could shower ONLY once per week, perhaps believing that the Archbishop (who had approved the rule) considered it vanity to shower more often. Evidently, at some point, Bishop Willamson "got wind" of this, pun intended, and perhaps that was literally how he found out, so he explained to us that we had to understand that this rule had been written from the perspective of the French, and it meant that seminarians must shower AT LEAST once per week, not ONLY once per week. LOL. So, after dinner and Mass that evening, during study time, the showers throughout the building ran non-stop for several hours until Compline, as you could hear the collective sigh of relief from among all the seminarians. I was comforted at least by the thought that I had not been alone in this misinterpretation of the rule.
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As I wrote this also last one, I can almost sense Bishop Williamson's presence near me here ... and I don't believe it's just psychological.
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Ladislaus, I was in Winona some years after you, 2002-2004. Matthew was a few years ahead of me.
I was new to tradition, so I kind of felt like a fish out of water, so to speak. But I can relate to everything you narrate..spiritual conferences, His Excellency's exacting methods, etc.
I must admit, it took me years after my departure to truly realize the treasures we had in the Bishop.
I have 2 stories to share...though there were so many more...
Upon the completion of my "Humanities" year, I opted to do my summer apostolate in Winona, helping out with the retreats...(Serving food, washing dishes, etc., and other Manualia ...)
At the time, I was dealing with extreme scrupulosity. After Compline one night, I needed to talk, and my spiritual director, Fr. Doran, as well as most priests were away. I knocked on The Bishop's office door...a knock which, as you likely recall, would be met with an immediate and authoritative .."Come in!"
He gave me his wise counsel, dispelled my fears as a good father does, and then surprised me...
He knew I was a musician and that he and I shared a love of Beethoven, and the piano..(He, on occasion, had me perform some excerpts for the class a fee excerpts of a Beethoven Sonata; and he himself performed the 2nd movement of the Pathetique Sonata once)
He took the opportunity, on this particular evening, to ask me if I "wanted to listen to a bit of music..."
Of course I replied in the affirmative...
He comically proceeded to "tiptoe" (as it was after Compline,) over to his cabinet to retrieve
A DVD...it was a DVD of a Van Cliburn competition of piano concerti, featuring Beethoven, Mozart, Prokofiev, and, my favorite, Rachmaninov.
He then led the way up to music room, and we watched the performances late into the night. His commentary was priceless, especially when there was a performance of the "Rach 3" Cadenza...it was performed by Russian pianist, Olga Kern. As she was playing, he commented on how inappropriate (to put it nicely) it was for a woman to be performing a "man's role," as he termed it, especially with her neck veins popping out at the difficult point of the cadenza...I won't repeat the description he termed...😂 I'm not making this up...
It's a humorous anecdote, but one which I treasure now more than ever. He was truly a father, in every sense of the word.
Before I went on summer vacation, he took it upon himself to telephone my pastor at the time, Fr. Arthur DeMaio, who was a friend of the SSPX, to explain to him my scrupulous condition (external forum only) and if he'd be willing to help me spiritually as needed.
The other story is a bit shorter...
His Excellency has visited the seminary (the year Fr. LeRoux took over) on Christmas of 2003. He said the midnight Mass. I was scheduled as the organist.
I played Bach's "Air in G" for an Offertory interlude after the proper was sung...I was told by those who were serving, that the bishop was softly humming along with the well known melody during the incensation of the altar.
As I recall, the sermon was great, and it predictably (and most welcomely) went into the events of 9/11 because he was talking about most people who are lulled to sleep in the shadow of death and the world of falsity.
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As I wrote this also last one, I can almost sense Bishop Williamson's presence near me here ... and I don't believe it's just psychological.
Evidently he passed away an hour after I wrote this. Someohow I had this "feeling" (I've felt it a couple times with other relatives as well), and I actually prayed for him for some time afterwards, probably right through his actual passing away.
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Ladislaus, I was in Winona some years after you, 2002-2004. Matthew was a few years ahead of me.
Thank you for sharing. When I started there, I too suffered from scruples, but Father Delaplace cured me of them almost instantly. He just gave me a command that I was not to confess anything or to refrain from Holy Communion unless I could basically swear to him that I had committed a mortal sin. He said that if I did happen to be wrong, it would be on him, since I'd have been acting from obedience. That was like an instant cure, since I was very much committed to obedience at the time.
Interesting about the choice of music. Bishop Williamson always referred to Beethoven as his "guilty pleasure", and I always considered mine to be Rachmaninoff 3 (as well as 2) ... with Van Cliburn my favorite performer thereof. I didn't know His Excellency actually enjoyed Rachmaninoff 3 also.
And, yes, I was called in on some of those "secret" (shhh!) video-watching sessions, though one time it was about Garbandal ... though I knew nothing about it at the time.
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Ladislaus, I was in Winona some years after you, 2002-2004. Matthew was a few years ahead of me.
I was new to tradition, so I kind of felt like a fish out of water, so to speak. But I can relate to everything you narrate..spiritual conferences, His Excellency's exacting methods, etc.
I must admit, it took me years after my departure to truly realize the treasures we had in the Bishop.
I have 2 stories to share...though there were so many more...
Upon the completion of my "Humanities" year, I opted to do my summer apostolate in Winona, helping out with the retreats...(Serving food, washing dishes, etc., and other Manualia ...)
At the time, I was dealing with extreme scrupulosity. After Compline one night, I needed to talk, and my spiritual director, Fr. Doran, as well as most priests were away. I knocked on The Bishop's office door...a knock which, as you likely recall, would be met with an immediate and authoritative .."Come in!"
He gave me his wise counsel, dispelled my fears as a good father does, and then surprised me...
He knew I was a musician and that he and I shared a love of Beethoven, and the piano..(He, on occasion, had me perform some excerpts for the class a fee excerpts of a Beethoven Sonata; and he himself performed the 2nd movement of the Pathetique Sonata once)
He took the opportunity, on this particular evening, to ask me if I "wanted to listen to a bit of music..."
Of course I replied in the affirmative...
He comically proceeded to "tiptoe" (as it was after Compline,) over to his cabinet to retrieve
A DVD...it was a DVD of a Van Cliburn competition of piano concerti, featuring Beethoven, Mozart, Prokofiev, and, my favorite, Rachmaninov.
He then led the way up to music room, and we watched the performances late into the night. His commentary was priceless, especially when there was a performance of the "Rach 3" Cadenza...it was performed by Russian pianist, Olga Kern. As she was playing, he commented on how inappropriate (to put it nicely) it was for a woman to be performing a "man's role," as he termed it, especially with her neck veins popping out at the difficult point of the cadenza...I won't repeat the description he termed...😂 I'm not making this up...
It's a humorous anecdote, but one which I treasure now more than ever. He was truly a father, in every sense of the word.
Before I went on summer vacation, he took it upon himself to telephone my pastor at the time, Fr. Arthur DeMaio, who was a friend of the SSPX, to explain to him my scrupulous condition (external forum only) and if he'd be willing to help me spiritually as needed.
The other story is a bit shorter...
His Excellency has visited the seminary (the year Fr. LeRoux took over) on Christmas of 2003. He said the midnight Mass. I was scheduled as the organist.
I played Bach's "Air in G" for an Offertory interlude after the proper was sung...I was told by those who were serving, that the bishop was softly humming along with the well known melody during the incensation of the altar.
As I recall, the sermon was great, and it predictably (and most welcomely) went into the events of 9/11 because he was talking about most people who are lulled to sleep in the shadow of death and the world of falsity.
Probably hard to see on a CRT screen, but I think those "veins" are tendons. This 2001 performance may have been the one you saw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AapjpeqmviM
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Thank you for sharing. When I started there, I too suffered from scruples, but Father Delaplace cured me of them almost instantly. He just gave me a command that I was not to confess anything or to refrain from Holy Communion unless I could basically swear to him that I had committed a mortal sin. He said that if I did happen to be wrong, it would be on him, since I'd have been acting from obedience. That was like an instant cure, since I was very much committed to obedience at the time.
Interesting about the choice of music. Bishop Williamson always referred to Beethoven as his "guilty pleasure", and I always considered mine to be Rachmaninoff 3 (as well as 2) ... with Van Cliburn my favorite performer thereof. I didn't know His Excellency actually enjoyed Rachmaninoff 3 also.
And, yes, I was called in on some of those "secret" (shhh!) video-watching sessions, though one time it was about Garbandal ... though I knew nothing about it at the time.
Excellent advice. I was given some similar to this.
He didn't really like the Rach 3, but he was kind enough to watch it with me.
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Probably hard to see on a CRT screen, but I think those "veins" are tendons. This 2001 performance may have been the one you saw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AapjpeqmviM
Yes, that's precisely the one! I still have the DVD which he gave to me.🙂
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Probably hard to see on a CRT screen, but I think those "veins" are tendons. This 2001 performance may have been the one you saw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AapjpeqmviM
The pianist obviously didn’t have on enough clothes. Imagine that top in white, beige, or black, and it’s an undergarment.
I’ve noticed that many old liberal women wear clothes that show off their neck tendons, chin dewlap, and crepe skin. Have a look at Nancy Peℓσѕι, NY Governor Hochul, Hillary Clinton, the late Ruth Badger Ginsberg. My last boss, an ultra liberal of about 70 had the same thing. She “grew up Catholic” and married a Joo, but referred to herself as “non-denominational” Christian.
The Bishop had a point. Rach Cadenza “sounds” masculine to me—based on my women’s intuition.
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Another anecdote. I attended a celebration/conference in Virginia, +Bp. Williamson’s anniversary, in 2012, I think. The festivities concluded with a picnic at a public park. Everyone was asked to bring either a main dish, dessert, salad, etc. Somehow, I ended up sitting behind the dessert and snack table. There were all kinds of foods, most of them brought by health conscious people. His Excellency looked them over and began reading the labels aloud, “Gluten free, no GMO, fat free, low fat, tree nut free, low sodium, non-dairy, sugar free, gluten free, gluten free, gluten free, contains no gluten……” Having taken nothing, he looked up at me and queried, “Have you anything glutinous? I like gluten!”
He chose a square of homemade thick, gooey brownie with a layer of confectioner's sugar on top!
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Again, not a seminarian, but an amusing anecdote, previously shared in the women’s thread.
Oh my... The things that come out of the mouths of children! 😅🤣
This reminds me of an incident that took place before I was married when I was visiting some friends...
Bishop Williamson was there for dinner and a 6 y.o. girl sitting near him asked him, "Excellency, why don't you have a wife?"
The Bishop looked taken aback the parents were aghast and horried and the poor inquisitive little girl got an answer that she did not understand very well. 😅🤣
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He knew I was a musician and that he and I shared a love of Beethoven, and the piano..(He, on occasion, had me perform some excerpts for the class a fee excerpts of a Beethoven Sonata; and he himself performed the 2nd movement of the Pathetique Sonata once)
He took the opportunity, on this particular evening, to ask me if I "wanted to listen to a bit of music..."
Of course I replied in the affirmative...
He comically proceeded to "tiptoe" (as it was after Compline,) over to his cabinet to retrieve
A DVD...it was a DVD of a Van Cliburn competition of piano concerti, featuring Beethoven, Mozart, Prokofiev, and, my favorite, Rachmaninov.
He then led the way up to music room, and we watched the performances late into the night. His commentary was priceless...
You might enjoy listening to his Lordship's recent interview with James Delingpole where he talks a bit about music and the composers, although you have no doubt heard it all before - it starts around 48:30:
https://www.cathinfo.com/the-sacred-catholic-liturgy-chant-prayers/bishop-williamson-interview-with-james-delingpole/msg970949/?topicseen#msg970949
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I came to the seminary very late. His Excellency had me come to his office. I was very intimidated - he was a bishop, and I was nobody. So he utters my last name and swishes it around in his mouth a few moments and nails my ancestry. Then he comes out and asks what kind of composers I enjoy. The first thing that comes into my mind is "The Barber of Seville", so I just blurt Rossini. +W sits back and closes his eyes: "Beethoven said that Rossini could have been a great composer, if his teacher had bothered spanking him enough." Then he asked if I liked Beethoven. I replied yes and he puts on Beethoven and starts head-banging. I'm trapped in this office with this mighty man and he's just thrashing. And I am so twilight zone at this point, I just don't know how to react. And that's how he tested and teased you.
We used to call him HEBRW (His Excellency Bishop Richard Williamson). I think he got a kick out of that.
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Two more episodes come to mind.
In the summer, the seminary would host retreats for lay people. We seminarians and staff all had to eat in a back room, behind the kitchen (where Scott ruled supreme!). It was a pretty tight space. So His Excellency is across from me and we're going through the thesaurus about the food ("No young man - it is not 'vittles', it is a 'repast'). So +W is done and wishes to leave, but Father Iscara is anchoring the table (other end is tight to the wall). So the Bishop looks down at Father and sends those crazy eyerbrows of his wriggling. Father Iscara, who'd shuffled in late, barely looks at him but assumes the lip curl contra benignitam. So Father sighs and starts to rise and Bishop Williamson dives under the table. Father Iscara is up and looks and is dumbfounded as the bishop has disappeared. Hs Excellency surfaces somewhere on my right and climbs up the seat. Father Iscara is standing, holding the table, watching this with his lidded eyes and he's just not impressed. Very unimpressed. And with his smirk, Bishop Williamson escapes.
+W liked to dabble in hot sauce. One time, a seminarian had gotten him something special, and he ended up getting some in his eye during lunch. He flailed about and the whole dining hall went stone silent as he worked through that one. He was spry though - you could see that.
He could thunder and he could play. He was an experience to listen to and be around.
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Two more episodes come to mind.
In the summer, the seminary would host retreats for lay people. We seminarians and staff all had to eat in a back room, behind the kitchen (where Scott ruled supreme!). It was a pretty tight space. So His Excellency is across from me and we're going through the thesaurus about the food ("No young man - it is not 'vittles', it is a 'repast'). So +W is done and wishes to leave, but Father Iscara is anchoring the table (other end is tight to the wall). So the Bishop looks down at Father and sends those crazy eyerbrows of his wriggling. Father Iscara, who'd shuffled in late, barely looks at him but assumes the lip curl contra benignitam. So Father sighs and starts to rise and Bishop Williamson dives under the table. Father Iscara is up and looks and is dumbfounded as the bishop has disappeared. Hs Excellency surfaces somewhere on my right and climbs up the seat. Father Iscara is standing, holding the table, watching this with his lidded eyes and he's just not impressed. Very unimpressed. And with his smirk, Bishop Williamson escapes.
+W liked to dabble in hot sauce. One time, a seminarian had gotten him something special, and he ended up getting some in his eye during lunch. He flailed about and the whole dining hall went stone silent as he worked through that one. He was spry though - you could see that.
He could thunder and he could play. He was an experience to listen to and be around.
Great stories! Thank you for sharing! :cowboy:
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Two more episodes come to mind.
In the summer, the seminary would host retreats for lay people. We seminarians and staff all had to eat in a back room, behind the kitchen (where Scott ruled supreme!). It was a pretty tight space. So His Excellency is across from me and we're going through the thesaurus about the food ("No young man - it is not 'vittles', it is a 'repast'). So +W is done and wishes to leave, but Father Iscara is anchoring the table (other end is tight to the wall). So the Bishop looks down at Father and sends those crazy eyerbrows of his wriggling. Father Iscara, who'd shuffled in late, barely looks at him but assumes the lip curl contra benignitam. So Father sighs and starts to rise and Bishop Williamson dives under the table. Father Iscara is up and looks and is dumbfounded as the bishop has disappeared. Hs Excellency surfaces somewhere on my right and climbs up the seat. Father Iscara is standing, holding the table, watching this with his lidded eyes and he's just not impressed. Very unimpressed. And with his smirk, Bishop Williamson escapes.
+W liked to dabble in hot sauce. One time, a seminarian had gotten him something special, and he ended up getting some in his eye during lunch. He flailed about and the whole dining hall went stone silent as he worked through that one. He was spry though - you could see that.
He could thunder and he could play. He was an experience to listen to and be around.
The funniest thing here is that an Englishman liked hot sauce. Usually they wince after eating anything spicier than ketchup.
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You might enjoy listening to his Lordship's recent interview with James Delingpole where he talks a bit about music and the composers, although you have no doubt heard it all before - it starts around 48:30:
https://www.cathinfo.com/the-sacred-catholic-liturgy-chant-prayers/bishop-williamson-interview-with-james-delingpole/msg970949/?topicseen#msg970949
Thank you!
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The funniest thing here is that an Englishman liked hot sauce. Usually they wince after eating anything spicier than ketchup.
He also required the little plastic bear at the head table to be filled with honey for his tea at all times. 🙂
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The thought of Bp. W. diving under the table is amazing—-and hilarious to me! Was this in Ridgefield? If so, I know the room you’re referring to.
Vittles are what Frs. Tim and Joe Pfeiffer eat.
I suspect Bp. Zendejas had something to do with the hot sauce experimentation.
I’m going to get the plastic honey bear in honor of Bp. W. It’ll remind me to pray for him whenever I see it.
Thinking of Bp. W’s dietary preferences, his favorite fruit pie was apricot. I baked one for him and served it to him at a Confirmation. To my dismay, after taking a big slice, he plopped it in a bowl and proceeded to drown it in milk and cover it with sugar! He then ate the mixture with a spoon.
Is this normal in Britain or particular to Bp. Williamson?
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One day Bp. Williamson had his bishop's conference; but this night was a special conference, almost two hours long because we seminarians were privileged to listen to Beethoven's 9th Symphony. It was a beautiful listen, but mainly because Beethoven was nearly deaf when he composed and produced it. At the end Lord Williamson asked us, "What does this symphony remind you of?" He was in his glory at the moment, for he indeed loved his Beethoven.
I raised my hand, "My Lord, Beethoven's 9th reminds me of the Sound of Music." He shook his finger at me and the seminarians lost it. Fun days.
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I had an oral exam one day in Metaphysics, and I was the last seminarian to go. I was standing before Frs. Goetler and Fullerton. In walks the bishop behind me and and he begins running his fingers across the blinds to offer a little distraction. I stepped up and said, "Well reverend fathers, the first shall be last and the last Shepherd shall flunk." They burst out laughing, but I did not turn around to look at the bishop, as I kept my cool. My question was, "God exists and a butterfly exists, explain the two existences." I was actually pleasantly surprised by my own answers, but I think they gave me a "D." At dinner that night they were all laughing not at me, but with me.
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I arrived late to the seminary in October 2001 because of 9/11. Later in February 2002 as a proud Irishman I had discovered that Ireland beat England in the rugby 19-13 so I hauled myself to his office to tell his Lordship that Ireland beat England to which he replied “Oh shut up”. I went off chuckling.
On another little anecdote this one not as a seminarian. I was serving Confirmations in Cork. When the ceremony was over His Lordship, Fr. MacDonald and I genuflected. My trousers were stuck to my legs, so when I genuflected the leg of my trousers ripped from top to bottom, but I continued the ceremony as nobody knew. After the ceremony was over I approached His Lordship requesting to keep the cassock on because my trousers had ripped. To which he replied “Oh no, not another split in the Resistance”. I hope you have a good laugh at my expense.
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I arrived late to the seminary in October 2001 because of 9/11. Later in February 2002 as a proud Irishman I had discovered that Ireland beat England in the rugby 19-13 so I hauled myself to his office to tell his Lordship that Ireland beat England to which he replied “Oh shut up”. I went off chuckling.
On another little anecdote this one not as a seminarian. I was serving Confirmations in Cork. When the ceremony was over His Lordship, Fr. MacDonald and I genuflected. My trousers were stuck to my legs, so when I genuflected the leg of my trousers ripped from top to bottom, but I continued the ceremony as nobody knew. After the ceremony was over I approached His Lordship requesting to keep the cassock on because my trousers had ripped. To which he replied “Oh no, not another split in the Resistance”. I hope you have a good laugh at my expense.
Don’t you love the cassock!
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Absolutely. It hides a multitude of sins.
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I was told another story by Br. Marcel.
At some feast day in the seminary His Lordship was celebrant and the whole crew of the St. John’s were present too. They were singing the Kyrie and being them, it went on and on. His Lordship was getting annoyed and beckoned the MC, the then Edward McDonald to ask them what it was they were singing, to which they replied it was a “stuffed Kyrie”. His Lordship replied “well tell them to stuff it.”
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I was told another story by Br. Marcel.
At some feast day in the seminary His Lordship was celebrant and the whole crew of the St. John’s were present too. They were singing the Kyrie and being them, it went on and on. His Lordship was getting annoyed and beckoned the MC, the then Edward McDonald to ask them what it was they were singing, to which they replied it was a “stuffed Kyrie”. His Lordship replied “well tell them to stuff it.”
So, yeah, those flamboyant ones with their lace surplices that look as though they could have been purchased from a Victoria's Secret introduced the "troped" Kyrie (which I guess he called stuffed here). Now, one week when Fr. Bourmaud (God rest his soul, a great priest) was in charge due to +Williamson being out of town, I went to Father Bourmaud and pointed out to him that the Council of Trent (or directives thereafter) banned troped Kyries, and Fr. Bourmaud told them to stop it.
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My question was, "God exists and a butterfly exists, explain the two existences." I was actually pleasantly surprised by my own answers, but I think they gave me a "D." At dinner that night they were all laughing not at me, but with me.
How'd you get a "D", man? God exists but without essence, as God's essence is His existence. Butterflies have existence and essence.
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I raised my hand, "My Lord, Beethoven's 9th reminds me of the Sound of Music." He shook his finger at me and the seminarians lost it. Fun days.
:laugh1: ...
So, I've actually never heard directly his condemnation of "Sound of Music". If someone has audio/video, I'd love to hear it. Boy this roiled Trads everywhere more than even his saying women shouldn't wear pants or go to university or hold down jobs. In fact, he would have caused less turmoil, controversy, and "scandal" had he come out as a full-blown foaming-at-the-mouth dogmatic SV who held that it's mortal sin to attend una cuм Masses, became "Feeneyite", and moved in with the Dimond Brothers. I imagine it was because he felt it was too sappy and emotional. I see his perspective, since the treatment of her vocation (or lack thereof) was not handled very well, making it seem like various emotions tugging her in different directions. But he should have appreciated your comment because he acknowledges that Beethoven is a Romantic and admits that he's his "guilty pleasure."
I don't care much for Beethoven (more of a Haydn and Vivaldi fan, with my guilty pleasure being Rachmaninoff's 3rd Piano ... though I don't like anything else he wrote except maybe Piano 2). So, the one exception I make is Beethoven's Violin Concerto. I took my oldest son to see Jewshua Bell performing it, and he was amazing, so I had to give the devil his due. I also like Gil Shaham-stein. I do think Stern and Perlman were massively overrated due to being Jews ... IMO they outright sucked, with next-to-no actual expression in their playing (were in it to earn shekels primarily). But for anyone to say that would be like exposing the proverbial Emperor for having no clothes, so no one would dare ... just like they're afraid to say that Einstein was an idiot and a fraud.
That reminds me also that I was in Chicago at Loyola University (undergraduate before I went to STAS) and got tickets for a buddy and myself to see Stern play with the Chicago Symphony. So I walk in there with this guy and we're both rather "underdressed" it would appear, since everyone else were wearing tuxedos and $1,000-dresses. As we walked past, I could hear a lady with this incredibly snotty tone that movie actors would offer as caricatures, except she was serious: "How did THEEEY get tickets to see Isaac Stern?" I told the guy I was with, since he had heard her also, rather loudly, so that I hope she heard it, "Yeah, wait until I tell her I got them for eight bucks each." :laugh1: I was on some student promotion from the Chicago Symphony where they reserved a certain number of seats (obviously nosebleeds) for students at very low/affordable prices just to get future generations interested. We were rather broke so we couldn't afford much more, and that's also why we couldn't match their wardrobes. Those where the days were a few of us in the dorm would scrape up pocket change to order a $4 pizza.
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For those who were there, I will merely allude in passing to the "chicken coop" incident. :laugh1: :laugh2: :laugh1: ... So, a softened form of the "rhetorical device" praeteritio. [Google it!] That reminds me also of teaching Latin there at one point. Initially I "tested out" of having to take Latin since, well, I had had 4 years in High School and 3 in University (got my BA in 3 years). I thought that this would allow me to do more studying for my other classes ... except that they consigned me instead to the library, and spending about 2/3 of the year organizing and cataloging the books at the relatively-new seminary (they had come in boxes from the old seminary, and also from donations). I came up with my own cataloguing system because the accepted Dewey Decimal categories were way too broad "Religion" or "Philosophy". Yeah, I know the system allows customization, but the number range in this areas was far too narrow given the complexity we were dealing with in those categtories. Uhm, that would have been 95% of the books. So I broke stuff up into Philosophy (subdivided into Logic, Cosmology, Ontology etc), Theology (subdivided into Ascetical/Mystical, Dogmatic, Moral), then Pastoral, Liturgical, etc. ... not sure exactly since this was like 35 years ago now. What I remember is that I reported to Father Peter Scott, the head librarian and given my instructions. LOL, at the one end of the library there was this one room that had a locking door, and we put all the Modernist / heretical trash in there, and called in informally "The Hell Room". But sometime later I got to teach Latin there. Still would have preferred to study more on other subjects.
Just curious about how many here know about that.
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Just curious about how many here know about that.
Yes "Hell" was still a thing 2000-2003. It wasn't "The Hell Room" but more like "Hell". I was in that room a few times. Very cozy.
In fact, during a particularly busy Priest Meeting, I think Mass was even offered in that room. Imagine that!
BTW I was in the Library department. My main department was Audio Room where I ended up Prefect very early (Feb 2 of my First Year, right after taking the cassock), then Library, and I was in the Schola. My 3rd Year, Fr. Doran thought I wasn't busy enough so he put me in Grounds dept as well.
Ironic, because those are the things I ended up being into for life -- including Grounds! I hated the addition at the time, but today it's probably my favorite activity (physical stuff, working and being outside, controlling nature in various ways).
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Speaking of the library, I often went to study there, and I tried to be a good seminarian where I obeyed the rule strictly. Well, one day I dozed off in the library. It was literally the ONLY time that had happed my entire time there. And who pops out from behind a bookshelf, "Well, well, well" (with thick French accent) but Father Pierre Delaplace. I was jarred awake and never did THAT again.
We used to imitate Father Delaplace jesting that we would go into town (allowed from time to time) and Fr. Delaplace would fly overhead in a helicopter with a megaphone, "Ah, do you have perMISShen?"
Fr. was a strict guy, almost borderline Jansenist, and so my scrupulous mentality gravitated toward him and picked him for my spiritual director. Now, surprisingly it was Fr. Delaplace who instantly cured me of scruples by ordering me to never confess another sin or refrain from Holy Communion unless I could basically swear to him that I had committed a mortal sin. He told me to do this under obedience (a good form of obedience) and that if I was wrong, the fault would be his. Literally instant cure, as I could definitely have imagined myself spiraling out of control with scruples for years. Never had a problem with it since that moment. Even when I wasn't under his direction anymore, this command properly adjusted / formed my conscience for the rest of my life, so I owe him a debt of gratitude.
Sadly, Father has left the priesthood (been laicized by the Novus Ordo) and is living in the US, now married with children (or at least last I heard). It was a sad affair, and I pray from him all the time, but imagine my surprised "not!" that Fr. Delaplace ended up in a career as ... one guess ... a corrections officer. :laugh1: ... where he's right at home, running the place like he ran STAS as the Vice Rector there.
But please do pray for Father. He probably cracked due to his excessive strictness.
(https://www.poconorecord.com/gcdn/authoring/2011/05/09/NPOR/ghows-PR-4b236ca4-5e51-4c8f-b3a8-a2bb53f2df62-98ec1c5c.jpeg?width=1200&disable=upscale&format=pjpg&auto=webp)
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Yes "Hell" was still a thing 2000-2003. It wasn't "The Hell Room" but more like "Hell". I was in that room a few times. Very cozy.
In fact, during a particularly busy Priest Meeting, I think Mass was even offered in that room. Imagine that!
:laugh1: ... yeah, awesome. I'm glad I left SOME "legacy" there ... Hell -- though to be fair I did mostly deal with good books. I had a key (since I worked in library and would occasionally have to consign books there ... some of which I was secretly tempted to read, having endured about 8 years of Modernist Jesuit education) ... and so I too would occasionally hide out in there if I wanted to avoid some noise and business. I recall even going in there to study a few times. Finally, my brother Steve (God rest his soul) and I would go in there to have secret conversations, attempting to determine if some priest who showed up out of nowhere had in fact been conditionally ordained. But mostly we were goofing around going in there, pretending to be secretive.
LOL, Mass in "Hell" ... yeah, we hadn't gone there yet. I do recall a side altar in the library somewhere else when I had to serve and the priest didn't speak English and I didn't speak French, so I we had a brief conversation in Latin (I just hoped that he was fluent, and he was). I would think that Mass in Hell would set the books in fire, well, unless it was an NO transfer with doubtful Orders. :laugh1:
LOL, I occasionally recall consigning a book or two from some pre-Vatican II theologian (even though it had imprimatur and nihil obstat) into Hell, since they became open Modernists later.
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Ironic, because those are the things I ended up being into for life -- including Grounds! I hated the addition at the time, but today it's probably my favorite activity (physical stuff, working and being outside, controlling nature in various ways).
I enjoyed being outside too, but I'm too old anymore to keep up ... well, not too old per se, but too old given that I've been sedentary at a desk job for nearly 30 years. If I tried it, I'd probably not survive.
And that reminds me of one time we had to re-roof the barn (I think it was later torn down and you guys had a new one already), but we were climbing ladders hauling these large metal roof panels up the ladder and then nailing them onto a rather steep roof, which also had some rotten wood panels so that we nearly went trough some of them (and this was a very tall barn) ... uhm, with cassocks. How insane was that! We should have definitely take the common sense measure of just wearing pants (and we weren't force to wear cassocks, just wanted to for some unknown and insane reason).
I recall how we used to feed all the food scraps (after lunch / dinner) to the pigs, and boy did we feed them a lot of garbage ... including piles of donuts and other junk they fetched from a food bank. When we ate pork at seminary, the stuff tasted like a pig smells.
My brother Steve had a friend who was just up in arms about drinking raw milk, and he was very animated: "I can't believe they're feeding us raw mulk." (not a typo, as that's how he pronounced it)
Lots of great times :laugh1:
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How'd you get a "D", man? God exists but without essence, as God's essence is His existence. Butterflies have existence and essence.
That was part of my answer, don't know how in the hell I got a "D."
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[...]and then nailing them onto a rather steep roof, which also had some rotten wood panels so that we nearly went trough some of them (and this was a very tall barn) ... uhm, with cassocks. How insane was that! We should have definitely take the common sense measure of just wearing pants (and we weren't force to wear cassocks, just wanted to for some unknown and insane reason).
I remember a couple seminarians would keep their cassock on, even during the big Seminary football game on Thanksgiving. It was only a few that were that "hard core". And I specifically remember one of them: Paul Robinson. Yeah, the guy who is basically an evolutionist and/or Modernist today. But yeah, he was so hardcore Trad seminarian he wouldn't even take off his cassock for a couple hours during a football game.
Straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel comes to mind...
Seriously, the more I think about it, the crazier it is. The cassock is about being "dead to the world", separated from the world, and a constant announcement that you (the priest/seminarian) are a cleric, apart from the world, who is in this world but not of it. And here you have Fr. Paul Robinson burning POUNDS of incense before the modern Science religion. VERY MUCH concerned about the modern world and what it thinks of him. "Open" to the (corrupt, modern) world in the way Vatican II was.
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And here you have Fr. Paul Robinson burning POUNDS of incense before the modern Science religion. VERY MUCH concerned about the modern world and what it thinks of him.
I think the non-infiltrator Modernists (i.e. those who start off with good-will but gradually drift into error) do so for the main reason of....A genuine attempt at wanting the world to "better understand" catholicism. They think most people just 'don't get' our religion, and if they did, they would convert. It's a very noble belief, even if very naive.
The number of people who 'don't get' catholicism (and are OPEN to learning) is a VERY SMALL % of people. Because, as the old saying goes, most people reject catholicism NOT for reasons of faith or lack of understanding; no, most people reject catholicism for MORAL reasons. As Our Lady of Fatima said, most people go to hell due to sins of the flesh.
V2's "sales pitch" was to "open the doors of the Church to the world". The same, flawed, sentimental thinking as above. The problem is not doctrine; the problem is morality.
So, (formerly good-willed) Modernists put too much emphasis on watering-down doctrine, in an attempt to "reach converts". AND then they double-up their error by being lax on morality and not challenging people to "do better". V2's response to the rampant fornication, divorce, adultery and remarriage is...."Well, God is merciful and loves everyone. Just keep going to church."
So by watering-down doctrine and going soft on immorality, what kind of catholicism is this? A limp-wristed, feminized version. Which is why the V2 church appeals to women and not men. And also why, converts don't feel the "need" to convert...because there's nothing left in V2 catholicism which is worth admiring; no lofty goals of sanctity, no immutable/timeless doctrines, and no moral standards worth fighting for or aspiring to.
Sorry for the off-topic response.
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One day Bp. Williamson had his bishop's conference; but this night was a special conference, almost two hours long because we seminarians were privileged to listen to Beethoven's 9th Symphony. It was a beautiful listen, but mainly because Beethoven was nearly deaf when he composed and produced it. At the end Lord Williamson asked us, "What does this symphony remind you of?" He was in his glory at the moment, for he indeed loved his Beethoven.
I raised my hand, "My Lord, Beethoven's 9th reminds me of the Sound of Music." He shook his finger at me and the seminarians lost it. Fun days.
😂 Yes!
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I arrived late to the seminary in October 2001 because of 9/11. Later in February 2002 as a proud Irishman I had discovered that Ireland beat England in the rugby 19-13 so I hauled myself to his office to tell his Lordship that Ireland beat England to which he replied “Oh shut up”. I went off chuckling.
On another little anecdote this one not as a seminarian. I was serving Confirmations in Cork. When the ceremony was over His Lordship, Fr. MacDonald and I genuflected. My trousers were stuck to my legs, so when I genuflected the leg of my trousers ripped from top to bottom, but I continued the ceremony as nobody knew. After the ceremony was over I approached His Lordship requesting to keep the cassock on because my trousers had ripped. To which he replied “Oh no, not another split in the Resistance”. I hope you have a good laugh at my expense.
😂Priceless!
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Yes "Hell" was still a thing 2000-2003. It wasn't "The Hell Room" but more like "Hell". I was in that room a few times. Very cozy.
In fact, during a particularly busy Priest Meeting, I think Mass was even offered in that room. Imagine that!
BTW I was in the Library department. My main department was Audio Room where I ended up Prefect very early (Feb 2 of my First Year, right after taking the cassock), then Library, and I was in the Schola. My 3rd Year, Fr. Doran thought I wasn't busy enough so he put me in Grounds dept as well.
Ironic, because those are the things I ended up being into for life -- including Grounds! I hated the addition at the time, but today it's probably my favorite activity (physical stuff, working and being outside, controlling nature in various ways).
If I remember correctly, "hell" was St. Jerome's classroom. I wonder what ever happened to Fr. Iscara's overflow of books that were in there...
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Speaking of the library, I often went to study there, and I tried to be a good seminarian where I obeyed the rule strictly. Well, one day I dozed off in the library. It was literally the ONLY time that had happed my entire time there. And who pops out from behind a bookshelf, "Well, well, well" (with thick French accent) but Father Pierre Delaplace. I was jarred awake and never did THAT again.
We used to imitate Father Delaplace jesting that we would go into town (allowed from time to time) and Fr. Delaplace would fly overhead in a helicopter with a megaphone, "Ah, do you have perMISShen?"
Fr. was a strict guy, almost borderline Jansenist, and so my scrupulous mentality gravitated toward him and picked him for my spiritual director. Now, surprisingly it was Fr. Delaplace who instantly cured me of scruples by ordering me to never confess another sin or refrain from Holy Communion unless I could basically swear to him that I had committed a mortal sin. He told me to do this under obedience (a good form of obedience) and that if I was wrong, the fault would be his. Literally instant cure, as I could definitely have imagined myself spiraling out of control with scruples for years. Never had a problem with it since that moment. Even when I wasn't under his direction anymore, this command properly adjusted / formed my conscience for the rest of my life, so I owe him a debt of gratitude.
Sadly, Father has left the priesthood (been laicized by the Novus Ordo) and is living in the US, now married with children (or at least last I heard). It was a sad affair, and I pray from him all the time, but imagine my surprised "not!" that Fr. Delaplace ended up in a career as ... one guess ... a corrections officer. :laugh1: ... where he's right at home, running the place like he ran STAS as the Vice Rector there.
But please do pray for Father. He probably cracked due to his excessive strictness.
(https://www.poconorecord.com/gcdn/authoring/2011/05/09/NPOR/ghows-PR-4b236ca4-5e51-4c8f-b3a8-a2bb53f2df62-98ec1c5c.jpeg?width=1200&disable=upscale&format=pjpg&auto=webp)
I see him with some regularity. Last I spoke with him was probably about a year ago. He attends the FSSP parish in Scranton, PA. I believe is is retired now. His children are grown and married I think. He visited our chapel a few times when Fr. Kevin Robinson was our pastor a few years back.
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If I remember correctly, "hell" was St. Jerome's classroom. I wonder what ever happened to Fr. Iscara's overflow of books that were in there...
Close. It was a separate room, but the closest "room" to that classroom, even if the door was always locked. If you were in the library and went out the "back exit", it would be on your right. If you kept going, you'd hit St. Jerome's.
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Close. It was a separate room, but the closest "room" to that classroom, even if the door was always locked. If you were in the library and went out the "back exit", it would be on your right. If you kept going, you'd hit St. Jerome's.
O yeah...
We had a class with Fr. Gaudray in St. Jerome's, but I don't think I ever had the chance of visiting "hell."
I remember also Joseph M. also oversaw the library. My memory is foggy. Were you the Perfect or was he?
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O yeah...
We had a class with Fr. Gaudray in St. Jerome's, but I don't think I ever had the chance of visiting "hell."
I remember also Joseph M. also oversaw the library. My memory is foggy. Were you the Perfect or was he?
I wasn't the prefect of the Library -- I think McKenzie was. The only dept I was in charge of was Audio Room.
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That was part of my answer, don't know how in the hell I got a "D."
I don't know either ... but Bishop Williamson likely had something to do with it.
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I see him with some regularity. Last I spoke with him was probably about a year ago. He attends the FSSP parish in Scranton, PA. I believe is is retired now. His children are grown and married I think. He visited our chapel a few times when Fr. Kevin Robinson was our pastor a few years back.
Interesting. If you see him, tell him that one of his former diriges ... Laszlo ... say "Hello" and keeps him in his prayers.
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Close. It was a separate room, but the closest "room" to that classroom, even if the door was always locked. If you were in the library and went out the "back exit", it would be on your right. If you kept going, you'd hit St. Jerome's.
Hmmmm. I recall it being off to the left (which would be appropriate) as you go toward St. Jerome. But then of course it's been 35 years. We should make a friendly wager of a beer over it and somehow meet there to settle it ... and, more importantly, partake of the beer.
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Interesting. If you see him, tell him that one of his former diriges ... Laszlo ... say "Hello" and keeps him in his prayers.
I will.
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If I remember when you came down the back stairs to the basement. St. Jerome’s was left, Hell was right in front of you, and to your right was a glass door which was the back entrance to the library. By the way AGeorge is that you Tony. This is your friendly Irish ex-seminarian, Annraoi.
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I am sure that if you came out the back exit of the library you come out to the stairs to your left, to your right was Hell, and straight in front of you was St. Jerome’s.
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Maybe it's just angles. I'm thinking of walking through the library toward St. Jerome, since that's always how I entered Hell.
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I wasn't the prefect of the Library -- I think McKenzie was. The only dept I was in charge of was Audio Room.
Yeah, since consigning books to Hell from the truckloads of books in boxes was part of my job, I had access (a key). Occasionally, if I was unsure, I'd go by Father Peter Scott and show him a book and he would determine whether it should go to Hell. There were a couple that we disagreed on, where I thought it should go there but he didn't, and vice versa.
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I visited Hell once to get copies of Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital. I was writing my dissertation on Karl Marx in the year of Metaphysics which Fr. Doran insisted every seminarian had to do. I ended with a A- for that paper. I was dead chuffed.
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I visited Hell once to get copies of Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital. I was writing my dissertation on Karl Marx in the year of Metaphysics which Fr. Doran insisted every seminarian had to do. I ended with a A- for that paper. I was dead chuffed.
Did you now? If seminarians wanted contraband in my day, I'd have to go fetch it for them. Father Doran, eh? Perhaps he spent a bit too much time sending seminarians into Hell and flirting with it himself.
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So, I arrived at the seminary about a week earlier than I was required to report during a very hot and humid late August in Winona, MN in 1989. I had no idea where to go, not knowing the layout of the place, so I walked into the chapel, and there was a single seminarian in there, praying, but he saw us, wearing lay clothes, and realizing therefrom that we were newbies, came over, helping us get to where we needed to go. He would later be ordained as Father Steven Soos. Interesting that he greeted me there, as we're both of Hungarian ancestry, he on his father's side, and I on both sides.
Turns out that getting there early was a terrible mistake ... except for the great merit to be acquired from some significant penance. I had thought I'd be able to prepare spiritually for beginning life as a seminarian, praying, studying, etc. Instead we were subjected to backbraking labor in the serious heat (and humidity) there in Minnesota (people don't realize how hot and humid ... due to the lakes ... it got up there in the Summers, and then later with a black cassock on and no air conditioning, it was tough ... but we didn't have cassocks yet of course). We had to carry lots of furniture (as in very heavy solid wood stuff, and large pieces since they were like pews and large classroom tables) a very long way across the grounds.
In any case, on the second day after our arrival, one of the two other guys I had given a ride up to Winona from the Cleveland / Akron area simply no-showed from the work detail. So I went looking for him and eventually found him kicked back in a chair with a large fan blasting him (he had gone into town to purchase it), so I asked him what was up, and he responded, holding up his hands, "These hands were made for chalices, not callouses." ... and then laughed. So, this guy was, how would you put it?, of the extremely effeminate orientation, complete with some hand gestures and even the lissssp. On the trip up, we had the windows open to get air, and he was in the back seat when some rather large moth flew suddenly in through the window. I had never in my life, and never since, heard such a loud ear-piercing, blood-curdling, girlish scream as I heard emanating from the back seat. I had to pull the car off the side of the road until we could evict the moth. In his defense, sortof, it was very dark, and the moth was very large, so we really didn't know what had just flown in the window. But had he been dirving the car, we all likely would have died. Now, it should have been obvious to me at the time, but I withheld judgment, not only out of charity for him, but also out of charity and respect for the SSPX, believing that certainly the SSPX would have vetted this guy, at least interviewed him, as his effeminacy was over-the-top obvious. He would register on a proverbial gαydar with a scale from 1-10 at about a very solid 12. I later confirmed it to be true, nor is this detraction, first because you don't know the guy, and second because I later found (when the internet got better) that he had actually headed up an LGBT group as his college campus near me and he was interviewed in the newspaper in Akron (so it's public info). Now, as I said, this was late 1980s so the SSPX had no good way of finding this info out, since this wouldn't have been on the internet, but I had assumed everyone would have gone on a visit, that this guy had been vetted, especially for you-know-what, since his effeminacy was over the top ... and so I concluded that it was just my perception and withheld judgment, assuming they would have found out that it was JUST effeminacy. It wasn't. And in retrospect, I'm shocked they didn't at least pay a bit of money for a background check on people, as it would have uncovered his very public and vocal LGBT advocacy.
So, first year seminarians were required to take a class named "Acts of the Magisterium", taught by Bishop Williamson himself. That was one of THE best classes at STAS, and I learned more there than in many of the others combined. That was an introduction to the crisis in the Church from the perspective of the Magisterium, and it's where Bishop Williamson traced it all the way back to the Renaissance/Enlightenment (giving a lot of detail). So, during either the first or second day of class, very early on at any rate, His Excellency asked us to take out a small scrap of paper for us to write down an answer to a question and then turn it over so no one could see their answers. He asked everyone how many Jews had been killed during the h0Ɩ0cαųst. I wrote down 0 myself, since there was no "h0Ɩ0cαųst", even if a certain number of Jews did die or even were executed during WW2. So Bishop Williamson walked up and down the aisles, asking people one at a time to turn over their paper as he walked by to see their answer. He made no comments and then just asked everyone to throw away their answer, evidently filing it away in his prodigious memory. I think this was a brilliant move, so he could see which seminarians had been brainwashed and might be in need of some deprogramming.
Then, by the end of the very first week of class, this aforementioned extremely effeminate individual that I gave a ride to told me he was leaving the seminary. I asked him, if he didn't mind saying, why he was leaving, telling him that it's fine if it's none of my business. So he told me that he just couldn't accept Bishop Williamson's "Anti-Semitism." So Bishop Williamson's "Anti-Semitism" saved the world from this guy ever getting ordained. While that's a plausible explanation, given how liberal this guy was, it's also equally possible that he was released on account of his overt appearance of having sodomitical tendencies.
Glad to see that I was not the only seminarian in the illustrious "Zero" club when it came to the Bishop Williamson gas chamber quiz. I read about the effeminate seminarian who left the seminary because of Bishop Williamson's "Antisemitism." Hell, that is the reason I stayed in the seminary. I said to myself, "This English bishop has some cohonas. The American bishops are all wimps."
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Ladislaus. Yes I did but that was after I had to obtain permission from the boss who was, Lord rest him Fr. Iscara. It was then Joseph McKenzie who opened Hell for me. So in my time it was stricter, it seems.
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If I remember when you came down the back stairs to the basement. St. Jerome’s was left, Hell was right in front of you, and to your right was a glass door which was the back entrance to the library. By the way AGeorge is that you Tony. This is your friendly Irish ex-seminarian, Annraoi.
Hello, old friend! Yes it's me. I suspected it might be you, but I wasn't positive. I hope you are well🙂
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Good to hear from you Tony. Just to let you know, I am doing OK back here in Ireland a little bit older and wiser I think. I am of course with the resistance, but surviving. It has been such a while since seminary left 2008. I am now in my fifties. Sure I entered seminary late in life at the age of 30.
I hope you have continued with piano.
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Thank you, Annraoi. I'm kept busy with multiple musical jobs, in addition to my main manufacturing job, to support my wife and children. We attend the SSPX chapel; we have a good priest and a good prior. However, I do support the Resistance. To my knowledge, there is no mission around our area.God bless you.
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It has been very amusing to hear you guys talk about going in and out of "hell." :cowboy:
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:laugh1: ...
So, I've actually never heard directly his condemnation of "Sound of Music". If someone has audio/video, I'd love to hear it. Boy this roiled Trads everywhere more than even his saying women shouldn't wear pants or go to university or hold down jobs. In fact, he would have caused less turmoil, controversy, and "scandal" had he come out as a full-blown foaming-at-the-mouth dogmatic SV who held that it's mortal sin to attend una cuм Masses, became "Feeneyite", and moved in with the Dimond Brothers. I imagine it was because he felt it was too sappy and emotional. I see his perspective, since the treatment of her vocation (or lack thereof) was not handled very well, making it seem like various emotions tugging her in different directions. But he should have appreciated your comment because he acknowledges that Beethoven is a Romantic and admits that he's his "guilty pleasure."
I think he wrote about it in an Eleison Comments. Aside from the sappiness, I'm pretty sure he criticized the woman's undermining of the Baron's authority. I haven't watched the movie in years but I recall that she was encouraging the children to disobey their father
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I found the most complete treatment in the link below. It's actually quite good and spot on, IMO ... though perhaps he's taking a bit of dumb musical entertainment a little too seriously. All these types of movies are meant to be "feel good" types.
https://williamsonletters.blogspot.com/2009/02/problem-with-sound-of-music.html
I agree with all his points ... except that I don't think that this movie has influenced me or many other people a lick in terms of our attitudes toward real life. I liken it to violent video games where you might go blowing away electronic people but it doesn't mean you'd ever hurt someone in real life. I have trouble smashing a fly if I don't have to but have no problems with a video game blowing away a thousand bad guys ... since I can tell the difference between that and reality ... though I haven't played video games much in 40+ years. But maybe done people can't ... don't know. Perhaps he mentioned might be influenced by it ... whereas men are not.
Girl do relish attention and making everything about "me" ... and being that Barbie prices who, though born a pauper, truly deserves and has a right a handsome prince that puts her on some pedestal to worship.
It does also present her married state as almost superior, where her vibrant joy and vitality is simply incompatible with the constraints of the dour convent life. That place is only for people that don't have her joy of life.
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I found the most complete treatment in the link below. It's actually quite good and spot on, IMO ... though perhaps he's taking a bit of dumb musical entertainment a little too seriously. All these types of movies are meant to be "feel good" types.
https://williamsonletters.blogspot.com/2009/02/problem-with-sound-of-music.html
I agree with all his points ... except that I don't think that this movie has influenced me or many other people a lick in terms of our attitudes toward real life. I liken it to violent video games where you might go blowing away electronic people but it doesn't mean you'd ever hurt someone in real life. I have trouble smashing a fly if I don't have to but have no problems with a video game blowing away a thousand bad guys ... since I can tell the difference between that and reality ... though I haven't played video games much in 40+ years. But maybe done people can't ... don't know. Perhaps he mentioned might be influenced by it ... whereas men are not.
Girl do relish attention and making everything about "me" ... and being that Barbie prices who, though born a pauper, truly deserves and has a right a handsome prince that puts her on some pedestal to worship.
It does also present her married state as almost superior, where her vibrant joy and vitality is simply incompatible with the constraints of the dour convent life. That place is only for people that don't have her joy of life.
:laugh2::laugh1: Influenced in real life by the Sound of Music because I’m female? Really? I saw the movie as a seven year old child, and I remember thinking that Maria should have gone back to the convent to remain. That’s that what I would have done. The Captain seemed to me to be untrustworthy, a goofy man, not at all like my father who was a real man. The Captain came home with the Duchess, a snobby possessive sort who wants to send the children away to boarding school, not for a good education, but to get rid of them. Next thing, he’s instantly in love with Maria who wants to be a nun? Who’s to say he wouldn’t meet yet another woman and ditch Maria for her? Okay, the movie was cutesy, had nice sing-a-longs for summer camp, but wasn’t remotely real! At age seven, I didn’t know much about Hitler and nαzιs. What little I knew of him was that he was a short, mean looking man with a cheesy mustache who lost a war against the United States. The Sound of music was not unlike Cinderella or The Flying Nun, most definitely not real! If a seven year old child knew the difference, why would a grown woman be so foolish as to aspire to a life like fictional movie characters?
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Because children are innocent, and adults quickly corrupt into worse than garbage.
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Because children are innocent, and adults quickly corrupt into worse than garbage.
At risk of sounding arrogant, I think pretty much the same now as I did at age seven. Maria should have stayed at the convent when she returned. The sisters and Mother Superior would have helped her through the heartbreak of having “lost” the man with whom she was infatuated. Then Christ Himself would have restored her joy by becoming her eternal, perfect Spouse. She would have been spared all difficulty with her Mother-in-Law!
My Irish grandmother used to say, “Puppy love leads to a dog’s life.” Of course I didn’t understand that at age seven, but by my early teens, it made sense as I witnessed several classmates “fall in love” and two get pregnant. Needless to say, the end results were hardly bliss. I saw my cousins, one by one get married outside the Faith, and then a sister do the same. Many friends from high school, college, university, early adulthood made the same mistake, marrying unsuitable mates because they were “in love.” Or, in “L-U-V” as Bp. W. would say. One by one, they got divorced and their adult kids are messed up. Of a dozen adults, there is only one child, also grown now, having surgically changed her gender.
I taught grades K-3 for nearly four decades, and for the most part, I preferred to spend time with my students rather than my fellow teachers.
When I was very young, people told my mother I had an “old soul.” That remained the case until I hit about 40, since which time I’ve found myself accused of thinking like a child or of failing to mature. Bizarre, yes?
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I think pretty much the same now as I did at age seven.
In a way, any good Catholic should. St Paul says something about being like little children.
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:laugh2::laugh1: Influenced in real life by the Sound of Music because I’m female? Really? I saw the movie as a seven year old child, and I remember thinking that Maria should have gone back to the convent to remain. That’s that what I would have done.
I didn't say all were, but many/most are women are influenced by such things, as they are influenced by all the princess stories in which they obviously imagine themselves in the starring role ... leading to a sense of entitlement. Your reaction that she should have returned to the convent is, let's just say, probably in the minority for women. Even in my perspective, she was not a fit for convent ... though not because she was superior to it, as the movie implies, but not cut out for it in general, due to being too whimsical, lacking in seriousness or any faith that I could see during the movie.
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I didn't say all were, but many/most are women are influenced by such things, as they are influenced by all the princess stories in which they obviously imagine themselves in the starring role ... leading to a sense of entitlement. Your reaction that she should have returned to the convent is, let's just say, probably in the minority for women. Even in my perspective, she was not a fit for convent ... though not because she was superior to it, as the movie implies, but not cut out for it in general, due to being too whimsical, lacking in seriousness or any faith that I could see during the movie.
Princesses in movies aren’t real, kind of like flying unicorns and fairies. I was never into playing princesses or such things. As for being in the minority, yes, I’d have to agree with you. It’s normal for me. I wasn’t your typical girl and now, not a typical woman. Oh well.