Quote from: gladius_veritatis

Clovis believes BO should arrest Alex Jones et alii.

For what?  On what grounds?  According to what known laws?

Now, I am no fan of AJ, as I think he is a bit of a tool bag and stays away from speaking the truth about Israel and the Zio-nαzιs.  However, the idea that arresting him for being "subversive" strikes me as being grossly misinformed about AJ, what it is to be "subversive", the laws of the USA, etc.

Make your case, Clovis.

Spreading fear and waffle.

Inciting people against Lawful authority.

I dont see how "Freedom of Speech" is an absolute good and if people are abusing it than in the interests of the greater good of society at large its sometimes necessary to take away their "Freedom of Speech".

The state has every right to suspend the Consitution as God has every right to suspend the laws of nature that He has given. God even has every right to carry out something like Baptism of Desire against His own revealed Law.

Watching the results of Obama and his ilk is the real fear here in America.  His lies, his promises, his life actions none of this should go on and on without a voice against him.  

I am grateful to live in America where here, we can still at least have a voice, speaking out against his policies.  

A voice to try and educate the young people to think before they vote, and not to follow the crowd.  

The U.S.A. government if full of corruption and it is good that there are some that are willing to point to it without the fear of having to be picked up and thrown into prison, at least not yet here in America.  Maybe tomorrow the voices will be silenced that outcry for truth, justice and mercy.

Clovis what say you if Obama gets his way and controls the internet; will we be able to meet like this?

It's funny. I totally agree with Clovis, and I totally disagree with him as well. I think the government does have the authority to do the things he says the government should do and I think would be totally legitimate if the government was run by decent people, but I think it is insane to want those things done by our maniacal Godless government.

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Matto what percentage of the USA population are traditionalist Roman Catholics?

What was the attitude of the Early Church towards the morally depraved late Roman Empire that they found themselves in?

Clovis, Traditionalist Catholics are far less than one percent in America.
I think that the early Christians obeyed the government when it gave commands, unless they were told to sin. And when the persecutions started they fled. But I am not sure. My position is this . . . obey the government when the orders are not sinful, and disobey when the orders are sinful. I do not like our government because it does not recognize God and God's laws, but I am not a revolutionary because I think a revolution with the people we have in America would be even worse than Obama. I am glad you are not a socialist, Clovis, in issues other than health care. Do you support an extensive public school system? If you do that would make you a socialist when it comes to education as well.

Job 1:20-22

Footnotes under Chapter two heading:

satan,[/b] by God's permission, striketh Job with ulcers from head to foot.  His patience is still invincible.

Obongo should not be arresting anyone.  He is all the hopes and dreams of all the global communists.  He's not even a US citizen.  I thought the Church was opposed to Bismarck!

I think the authority to govern the mind and education belongs to the Church and not the state.

One more thing, Clovis. I am not the smartest person and am confused about these things myself, but I would add to your statement:

"I do not believe that individual liberty an absolute dignity that comes before the greater social good. I believe that society has duties towards each of its members and its members have duties towards society as a whole. If that makes me a socialist so be it."

There is something that you left out of this which is the most important thing. Society and all men have duties towards GOD and these duties are more important than anything else. Even if society is perfect in upholding the duties it has towards each other, but neglects its duties towards God, then it is a worthless society.

When I use the word authority, it means the power to give a legitimate order that must be obeyed under pain of sin. Only the Church has authority over what people believe. If the state and Church cooperate in matters of education, it is the Church granting its authority to the state, not the other way around. I think the state has no authority over education. If it wants to open a school, it can do so, though I oppose widespread public education, but when it orders someone to go to its school, this is an illegitimate order that need not be obeyed.