Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 ... 13

Author Topic: Why Sungenis's Geocentrism model is wrong  (Read 30013 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline happenby

Re: Why Sungenis's Geocentrism model is wrong
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2017, 02:26:37 PM »
Quote from: cassini on March 29, 2017, 06:19:40 AM
There is no doubt that some of the Fathers believed in a flat earth. But unless there is unanimous belief of the Fathers the belief does not qualify as CHURCH TEACHING as regards what the Bible says. It is therefore not right to insist a Catholic must or should accept a flat-earth Scripture.

“All educated persons of Columbus’ day, very much including the Roman Catholic prelates, knew the earth was round. The Venerable Bede (c. 673-735) taught that the world was round, as did Bishop Virgilius of Salzburg (c. 720-784), Hildegard of Bingen (1098-1179), and Thomas Aquinas (c. 1224-74). All four ended up saints. Sphere was the title of the most popular medieval textbook on astronomy, written by the English scholastic John of Sacrobosco (c. 1200-1256). It informed that not only the earth but all heavenly bodies are spherical.’

The term circle in the scriptures does not eliminate a globe, a sphere. A flat earth has only one circle. A globe is circular as viewed from every angle.

Along with descriptions of scripture, the only saints (and the majority I might add) that actually taught anything about the earth, taught flat earth.  A few mentioned earth in passing, that they thought earth might be a globe.  But, they didn't teach anything.  So... if you see, somewhere along the way, a teaching of a saint on round earth with biblical references, please post it.  
Logged

Offline mw2016

Re: Why Sungenis's Geocentrism model is wrong
« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2017, 12:08:02 AM »
Quote from: cassini on March 29, 2017, 05:04:27 AM
The first and most obvious astronomical understanding was the relationship between the sun and the earth. 
You did not answer my question.
I asked: explain the mechanism of day and night under your Biblical non-moving earth form of geocentrism.
Cutting and pasting a wikipedia entry on heliocentrism is not an answer.
So, if day and night is caused by the earth rotating on its axis under heliocentrism, what is the mechanism causing day and night with a non-rotating earth?
Or, are you actually going to admit that you BELIEVE IN A ROTATING EARTH? Which is in direct contradiction to the Bible, which holds that the earth DOES NOT MOVE.
Logged

Offline cassini

Re: Why Sungenis's Geocentrism model is wrong
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2017, 05:29:49 AM »
Quote from: mw2016 on March 30, 2017, 12:08:02 AM
You did not answer my question.
I asked: explain the mechanism of day and night under your Biblical non-moving earth form of geocentrism.
Cutting and pasting a wikipedia entry on heliocentrism is not an answer.
So, if day and night is caused by the earth rotating on its axis under heliocentrism, what is the mechanism causing day and night with a non-rotating earth?
Or, are you actually going to admit that you BELIEVE IN A ROTATING EARTH? Which is in direct contradiction to the Bible, which holds that the earth DOES NOT MOVE.


I did not answer your question, merely pasting a wikipedia entry instead? Are you serious mw2016? First of all I wrote the above posting and I drew the illustrations. 

It explains how the orbiting sun brings about day and night on earth. I added in how the sun brings seasons on earth. I further added how precession works and for good measure showed how the calendar had to be changed to bring it into line with Church celebrations of Easter etc. 

Now if you read that as a heliocentric explanation then we are all in trouble.

Then again maybe your 'mechanism' is asking how the sun orbits the earth. My belief is that the sun, moon and stars are fixed into the universe and given only a small local movement (for example the seasonal movement of the sun). I believe God causes the universe to rotate around the fixed earth at its center. This causes the sun, moon and stars to turn around the global earth every day. One can say the sun ORBITS around the earth but in fact it is TURNED around the earth in its place in a rotating universe. This last distinction is important as ORBITING is confined to moons and planets.

I think it was St Thomas who wondered if all the sun, moon and stars move in unison or if they were fixed into the aether of the universe. He preferred the first option I prefer the second. Both are possible to God, the first if he placed each body under the care of an angel to direct daily and local movement, or the angels take care of local movements as the are turned around the earth in a fixed universe.

Notice how a global earth works in the geocentric model. It does not need to deny science its measurements of distances, or deny that any curvature of earth was ever photographed from a position in space that could show that curve.

It also shows how the sun not only causes day and night on earth but also on all the planets and moons. I see a nightmare of explanations to show how a flat-earth system could explain these planetary and moon phases observed due to the sun having to be a couple of thousand miles above the earth in a flat-earth scenario.

Given that a scriptural flat-earth was never dogmatised by the Church, it is not a matter of faith. Only a geocentric universe was dogmatised in order to protect the Scriptures and common sense, the means by which man can recognise that a Creator exists.

To subject the Scriptures and the Catholic faith to the idea that the earth is a flat circular body is to place the Catholic faith under the auspices of so many denials that it can only HARM the faith. To actually insist the earth has edges of a high wall of ice that somehow cannot be identified from an airplane or satellite and insist the integrity of the Scriptures depends on that is just not right.

I have no doubt some do believe it is true, others that it is a possibility, but for God's sake do not say one's Catholic faith depends on it being true. Nor does it help your cause by attacking those who disagree or implying they are ignorant. One does not gain friends or converts that way.  
Logged

Offline mw2016

Re: Why Sungenis's Geocentrism model is wrong
« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2017, 01:50:58 PM »
Quote from: cassini on March 30, 2017, 05:29:49 AM


Then again maybe your 'mechanism' is asking how the sun orbits the earth. My belief is that the sun, moon and stars are fixed into the universe and given only a small local movement (for example the seasonal movement of the sun). I believe God causes the universe to rotate around the fixed earth at its center. This causes the sun, moon and stars to turn around the global earth every day. One can say the sun ORBITS around the earth but in fact it is TURNED around the earth in its place in a rotating universe. This last distinction is important as ORBITING is confined to moons and planets.

I think it was St Thomas who wondered if all the sun, moon and stars move in unison or if they were fixed into the aether of the universe. He preferred the first option I prefer the second. Both are possible to God, the first if he placed each body under the care of an angel to direct daily and local movement, or the angels take care of local movements as the are turned around the earth in a fixed universe.
Note to cassini: you do not need to type or paste a WALL OF TEXT to answer a simple question.
So, now we have, from your very verbose response, that you do not believe the earth is rotating, and that you believe the sun is, in fact, rotating about the earth, along with all the rest of the "universe" in the ether.
Therefore, you have proved my point:
You accept the heliocentric distance to the sun of 93 million miles.
Therefore, according to YOU, the sun is traversing a 584 million mile long circular path around the earth EVERY 24-hours.
THAT is more absurd than a flat earth plane with the Firmament above, enclosing the earth from the waters of the great deep, with the sun and moon and stars circling above, could ever be.
Logged

Offline cassini

Re: Why Sungenis's Geocentrism model is wrong
« Reply #44 on: March 30, 2017, 02:18:39 PM »
Quote from: mw2016 on March 30, 2017, 01:50:58 PM
Note to cassini: you do not need to type or paste a WALL OF TEXT to answer a simple question.
So, now we have, from your very verbose response, that you do not believe the earth is rotating, and that you believe the sun is, in fact, rotating about the earth, along with all the rest of the "universe" in the ether.
Therefore, you have proved my point:
You accept the heliocentric distance to the sun of 93 million miles.
Therefore, according to YOU, the sun is traversing a 584 million mile long circular path around the earth EVERY 24-hours.
THAT is more absurd than a flat earth plane with the Firmament above, enclosing the earth from the waters of the great deep, with the sun and moon and stars circling above, could ever be.

Unlike you mw2016, I not only answer posts but I write in such a way that the reading public can judge for themselves which opinion is the more reasonable. I am long aware that flat-earthers are not for turning no matter what is argued against what they believe is the greatest conspiracy ever conceived.

Next you will be telling us there are fewer stars than all the grains of sand on Earth. Such a number is absurd to flat-earthers. As a Catholic I do not accuse God of creating any absurdities when it comes to size, distances or speeds. 
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 ... 13
« previous next »