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Author Topic: Why Sungenis's Geocentrism model is wrong  (Read 26177 times)

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Re: Why Sungenis's Geocentrism model is wrong
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2017, 02:31:17 PM »
Psalm 104:5 "Who hast founded the earth upon its own bases: it shall not be moved for ever and ever."

Re: Why Sungenis's Geocentrism model is wrong
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2017, 02:40:41 PM »
Lots of things in the Bible are literal but don't mean what you think they mean.  The problem is not with the Bible.  The problem is with our reading of the Bible.  Holy Mother Church tells us how it is to be understood, how it is not to be understood, and where there is room for discussion.  If my statement is so "dumb", then please provide me with an intelligent response, containing infallible pronouncements, indicating the faithful are bound to believe it in the sense statedin the original post, and that they are prohibited from believing it in the sense proposed by Sungenis.
The problem with your assessment is that you assume we do not know what the Church has said on this subject.  But we  do know.  The Church has ALWAYS been geocentric flat earth, citing scripture to prove Her position!   In fact, during the Galileo Affair St Robert Bellarmine said on the subject of geocentrism vs heliocentrism: “It will not do to say that this is not a matter of faith, because though it may not be a matter of faith ex parte objecti or as regards the subject treated, yet it is a matter of faith ex parte dicentis, or as regards Him who announces it. Thus he who should deny that Abraham had two sons and Jacob twelve would be just as much a heretic as a man who should deny the Virgin Birth of Christ, because it is the Holy Spirit who makes known both truths by the mouth of the Prophets and Apostles.”
The Church has two infallible pronouncements on the subject of heliocentrism and as such, that theory is condemned. However, there are excellent Catholic treatises on the subject that refine all points for those interested in delving into the Church's official position. The Theological Status of Heliocentrism
O  October 1997 J. S. Daly  http://www.ldolphin.org/geocentricity/Daly.pdf

IN   As for Robert Sungenis' theory, it remains a heliocentric theory with a ball shaped earth.  
The The Church has never held this possibility and Sungenis doesn't even try to show She did.
 In fact Sungenis looks like he uses 100% pagan sources for his theories as seen here:
  http://flatearthtrads.forumga.net/t103-critique-of-robert-sungenis-article-against-flat-earth
t


Re: Why Sungenis's Geocentrism model is wrong
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2017, 03:34:41 PM »
I'm going to demonstrate in one simple math calculation why Robert Sungenis's, Fr. Pfeiffer's, and cassini's version of geocentrism is wrong - and simultaneously prove why the flat earth model is correct.

First: All three - Sungenis, Fr. Pfeiffer, and cassini - hold the Bible to be true and correct where it states that the earth DOES NOT MOVE.

See: 1 Chronicles 16:30, Psalm 93:1, Psalm 96:10, Psalm 104:5 Isaiah 45:18.
Since they hold that the earth does not move, this means the earth can neither travel in a circuit around the sun, nor does it rotate on its axis.
However, this creates a little problem: the heliocentric model states that day/night is caused by the earth rotating on its axis. If there is no movement of earth, because it is stationary and unmoving according to the Bible, then this means there can be no rotation.
So only the sun can be in motion.
Therefore, in order for us to have day and night, the sun would have to go around the earth:
ONCE EVERY 24 HOURS.
If you take the figure that Sungenis, Fr. P. and cassini accept for the distance to the sun, of 93 million miles, then one can calculate the distance the sun must travel going around the earth in a single 24 hour day.
If earth is center, and the radius of this circuit (R) is the distance of 93 million miles, we can calculate the circuмference (C).
The equation is C = 2 x pi x R
C = 2 x 3.14 x 93 million miles
C = 584 million miles
584 million miles per day/ 24 hours in a day = 24.3 million MPH (speed of the sun)
Does ANYONE here really believe the sun is moving at an eye-watering speed of 24.3 million MPH around the earth every day?
Because that is what the math gives you, if you partially adhere to the Bible's stationary geocentrism, while simultaneously trying to adhere to NASA and heliocentrism's distance of the sun being 93 million miles from earth.

Therefore, the Bible is correct. The earth is a flat, stationary plain, and the sun is rotating above it in a circuit every 24 hours.

Measuring the distance of the sun from the earth and other planets is near impossible without proper instrumentation that Copernicus did not have. Estimates based on earth-diameters were all the early astronomers could manage. Ptolemy estimated the sun to be 610 earth-diameters away. Copernicus ‘corrected’ this estimate to 571, which was even further from the actual distance than Ptolemy. The first astronomer to achieve the realistic magnitudes for the sun and planets was Domenico Cassini. He estimated the distance of the sun from the earth - now said to be approximately 11,650 earth-diameters – at 10,305 earth-diameters. 


‘In 1672 Cassini took advantage of a good opposition of Mars to determine the distance between the Earth and that planet. He arranged for Jean Richer (1630-1696) to make measurements from his base in Cayenne, on the north eastern coast of South Africa, while Cassini made simultaneous measurements in Paris which permitted them to make a triangulation of Mars with a baseline of nearly 10,000 kilometres. This derived a good approximation for the distance between the Earth and Mars, from which Cassini was able to deduce many other astronomical distances. These included the Astronomical Unit [the distance of the sun from the earth] which Cassini found to be 138 million kilometres, only 11 million kilometres too little [that is, according to today’s proposed measurements of 92.96 million miles]. ---David Abbot: Astronomers, The Biographical Dictionary of Scientists, Blonde Educational, 1984, p.35.

 Does ANYONE here really believe the sun is moving at an eye-watering speed of 24.3 million MPH around the earth every day?

Are you questioning God's ability to move celestial bodies or the universe itself at any speed for that is what your question proposes. Nothing is beyond the ability of God.

The flat-earth proposal depends on the unbelievable idea that all space photography of a curved earth is one of the biggest hoaxes ever, with thousands and thousands of global-earthers conspiring to keep the flat-earth a secret with not one whistler-blower ever to emerge over 50 years. There may well be relative facts that could be used by both FEers and GEers but there is so much (like distances and now speeds) that have to be denied to procure a flat-earth that we are still a million miles away from a proven flat earth. The evidence for a global earth is enough to convince me at any rate that The Child of Prague got it right.








Re: Why Sungenis's Geocentrism model is wrong
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2017, 03:53:36 PM »
Haha, yeah.  I've heard of "Scientists and engineers for 9/11 truth".  Never heard of "Scientists and engineers for flat earth truth".  That would really surprise me.

Re: Why Sungenis's Geocentrism model is wrong
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2017, 03:55:06 PM »
  Never heard of "Scientists and engineers for flat earth truth".  That would really surprise me.
It's on Mark Sargent's YT channel.