Author Topic: Why did the Sun dance in 1917?  (Read 332 times)

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Offline Carissima

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Why did the Sun dance in 1917?
« on: October 12, 2017, 12:39:01 PM »
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  • Eyewitness testimony October 13th, 1917..

    'the sun trembled, it made strange and abrupt movements, outside of all cosmic laws, ‘the sun danced’

    Like many Catholics I've contemplated the Miracle of the Sun, and I've asked myself, why did the Sun dance? Was it only to prove that it was Mary, the Queen of Heaven and Earth, Our Blessed Lord's Mother, that it really was Her speaking to the children at Fatima? Or was it so much more?A message perhaps? 
    After reading several accounts from eyewitnesses, and from Lucia herself, I am left wondering..maybe Heaven is trying to tell us something more..an imminent Chastisment if no repentance, yes. But still more..read on and feel free to comment, these are only my own thoughts on the matter.



    From Lucia's description of Mary before the Sun danced:

    'Then, opening Her hands, She made them reflect on the sun, and as She rose, Then, opening Her hands, She made them reflect on the sun, and as She rose, the reflection of Her own light continued to be projected on the sun itself.»

    Mary calling attention to the Sun by using Her own light is something that is truly amazing all by itself. 

    Here are some of the testimonies of eyewitnesses in regards to the Sun and what it looked like:

    'I could see the sun, like a very clear disc, with its sharp edge, which gleamed without hurting the sight '

    ..'it kept its light and heat, and stood out clearly in the sky, with a sharp edge, like a large gaming table.'

    'The most astonishing thing was to be able to stare at the solar disc for a long time, brilliant with light and heat, without hurting the eyes, or damaging the retina.'

    'It looked like a plate of dull silver, and it was possible to stare at it without the least discomfort.'

    'The people could look at the sun as we look at the moon.'


    And here testimony of when the Sun moved...

    'I saw it perfectly descending as if it came to crash on the earth. It seemed to detach itself from the sky and rush toward us. It maintained itself at a short distance above our heads'


    'The sun, in fact, keeping its rapid movement of rotation, seemed to free itself from the firmament and blood-red, to plunge towards the earth, threatening to crush us with its fiery mass. Those were some terrifying seconds.'

     'I saw the sun turn and it seemed to descend. It was like a bicycle wheel.'

    'The sun began to dance and, at a certain moment, it appeared to detach itself from the firmament and to rush forward on us, like a fire wheel.'

    'It seemed very near the people and it continued to turn in the opposite direction.'


    To me personally, these accounts don't sound like they are from people educated with the current teaching model of the 'solar system', the one that I learned in school. The idea itself is completely missing here, it's like they are describing a different Sun entirely. Where did that big fireball in the sky go? Was it transformed into a disc? Was it meant to be only an illusion?
    I would not go so far as to discredit these witnesses as a bunch of ignorant peasants, considering that testimonies from doctors, journalists and even some scientists were similar to the locals as well. And not to mention the fact that these testimonies were meant to go down in History, and for all time as THE WITNESS to a truly MAGNIFICENT CELESTIAL EVENT!

    Interesting to note also that the Miracle was not only confined to Fatima but was reported to have occurred at the same time in other places several kilometers away. The Miracle was viewable only within the Sun's direct location, and was limited only by perspective. Even though ground zero was Fatima, how many more eyewitness accounts would there have been beyond it? Only a small few outside of Fatima were ever recorded. 













    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Why did the Sun dance in 1917?
    « Reply #1 on: October 12, 2017, 03:19:10 PM »
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  • .
    The story of Fatima and the message of Fatima come to us with a degree of mystery, and that mystery has been there all along for it was just as mysterious for the people of that time, even for the three visionaries.
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    We are still missing much important information about Fatima, for example, the full text of the Third Secret (the words of Our Lady spoken while the children saw a series of images in a vision-with-a-vision), and the multiple volume compendium written by Fr. Fuentes, which the Vatican confiscated before its publication and has hidden from public view. 
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    Since the sun gives light to the world, it can be compared to the Church, which enlightens man's understanding of spiritual matters. When 70,000 witnesses in that Portuguese village saw the sun appear to come loose from its proper place of prominence and "authority," then appear to fall from the sky threatening the destruction of the world, it can be thought to be a metaphor of the Church losing her place of prominence and authority when she appears to fall away from that place threatening the destruction of man's understanding of spiritual matters. Do you have any problem fitting our present situation into that picture?
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    I'm saying the sun "appeared" to fall away from its place of prominence, because this falling sun vision was only experienced by those in the Cova da Iria at Fatima, and others within local distance. There was no one far away, such as in Spain or France at the time who had seen anything unusual in the appearance of the sun. 
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    Therefore, we can conclude that it must have been a particular experience or vision that the people at Fatima that day were given to see. How they could see something there that others far away could not see is not unusual in mystical visions. Even there in the Cova, the three children saw Our Lady but no one else did. Even among the children, Lucia and Jacinta could hear her voice but Francisco could not hear it.
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    Offline kiwiboy

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    Re: Why did the Sun dance in 1917?
    « Reply #2 on: October 12, 2017, 03:20:18 PM »
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  • Is that the sun that is 93 million miles away Neil? It must have come pretty fast down. Think of all the gravitational effects. I mean the planets were probably thrown off their course and all...
    Eclipses neither prove nor disprove the flat earth.

    "As for whether or not I work for NASA, I'm sorry, but I fail to understand what that could possibly have to do with anything" Neil Obstat, 08-03-2017

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Why did the Sun dance in 1917?
    « Reply #3 on: October 13, 2017, 05:04:19 PM »
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  • In fact, the miracle of the Sun at Fatima shows the geocentric model in all of its glory. Our Lady gives us an insight to the workings of the universe showing that the sun is not stationary, nor does the earth move just as the Church declared in 1633.  The sun moves and moved with great authority that day. Not the earth.  Fatima is an affirmation to flat geocentric earth. 

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Why did the Sun dance in 1917?
    « Reply #4 on: October 13, 2017, 05:22:23 PM »
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  •  How they could see something there that others far away could not see is not unusual in mystical visions. 
    Not unusual? I never heard of any other vision of 70,000 people which others did not see.

    The son danced and everyone there saw it. It was not a "vision".

    I read somewhere where scientist say it could be done with a giant prism. 
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline happenby

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    Re: Why did the Sun dance in 1917?
    « Reply #5 on: October 13, 2017, 05:29:33 PM »
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  • Not unusual? I never heard of any other vision of 70,000 people which others did not see.

    The son danced and everyone there saw it. It was not a "vision".

    I read somewhere where scientist say it could be done with a giant prism.
    If there is a question as to whether the sun danced, it comes only from those who do not believe.  Fatima was no virtual, or unsubstantiated, or imagined incident, but a full on miracle witnessed by thousands, believers and unbelievers. With comments about the particulars from all types, we know exactly what happened.  

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Why did the Sun dance in 1917?
    « Reply #6 on: October 13, 2017, 09:55:05 PM »
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  • .
    If the Miracle of the Sun was so unquestionable, then why are Catholics free to believe it or not?
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    In fact, we are not required to believe anything regarding the Fatima events or any other modern-day phenomena. We are not required to believe that the 1571 victory at Lepanto was of divine origin or the events that occurred in Mexico City around Our Lady of Guadalupe in 1531.
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    We are not required as Catholics to believe in the Miraculous Medal or the visions at La Salette. There was exactly one witness at Rue de Bac and just two at La Salette.
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    All the Church has given us is that we are not forbidden from having devotion to Our Lady through these events.
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    While the Miracle of the Sun is not a dogma of the Faith, it is nonetheless more credible than a merely private revelation, since it was witnessed by 70,000 people, and there was no one at the Cova that day who said that they couldn't see what everyone else saw. You know, if that same thing (whatever it was!) were to happen again today, there would be plenty of eye-witnesses who would claim that they had seen nothing unusual at all in the sky. I know this because I have spoken to skeptical wise-guys who tell me they can't see the sun in the clear sky during broad daylight. You can thank Immauel Kant and his ilk for that.
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    Even atheists and skeptics who came there that day for the purpose of ridiculing the faithful came away from the scene shaking their heads in bewilderment, and most of them having a change of heart, which is a consequence of enormous graces, as if even those who totally did not WANT to believe nonetheless could not resist. There were cures and conversions that day, which the detractors of today don't like to recognize.
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Why did the Sun dance in 1917?
    « Reply #7 on: October 13, 2017, 10:25:50 PM »
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  • If there is a question as to whether the sun danced, it comes only from those who do not believe.  Fatima was no virtual, or unsubstantiated, or imagined incident, but a full on miracle witnessed by thousands, believers and unbelievers. With comments about the particulars from all types, we know exactly what happened.  
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    It's not reasonable to say that we know the sun danced at Fatima. 
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    What IS reasonable is to say we know that everyone at the Cova da Iria SAW the sun dance, or that the sun APPEARED to them dancing in the sky. Because if the sun had truly danced in the sky, then other observers in Spain or France or England or Germany, etc., would have also seen the sun dancing, but no one did in far-away places. Even in places not so far away, such as Lisbon, Portugal, had no witnesses seeing anything unusual about the sun that day.
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    It's not reasonable to say the dancing sun was imagined, either, because it was seen by everyone present. If it had been imaginary there would have been great discrepancies in the witnesses' accounts. But there is instead great agreement. Different people used different words to describe the same thing, but the 4 Gospels are like that too. Yet we don't think that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John imagined everything.
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    There were no astronomical measurements taken of the Miracle of the Sun, even though there were several professional photographers there that day. No one was expecting to take such measurements in advance, so it's reasonable to understand that they did not come prepared for that.
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    It's also unreasonable to say we know "exactly what happened" because we do not have any precise record of the specific movements the sun appeared to make. How far did it move? Did it appear to change size? If so, by how much and by what rate of change? Did it move from left to right, and if so, what was the frequency? Was it consistent or did the frequency speed up or slow down? How many times did the sun appear to move from left to right, or to turn around in some way? From second to second, what was the percent change in the diameter of the sun as it appeared to get closer? At its closest approach to the earth, what was the distance from the witnesses to the sun? Were there any witnesses experienced in estimating distance as part of their work, like surveyors or military/artillery gunners? Did the sun appear to fill the sky from horizon to horizon or did it only fill a field of view of 15 degrees 23 minutes of arc or whatever? Did anyone notice these things?
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    There are numerous questions about what the sun did according to the witnesses that we simply cannot answer today. How long did the sun spend shining each of the various colors that came out? Was it a half second or two seconds? Was it consistent or did it change color more quickly? If it every shined two or more colors at once, where was each color seen? Could anyone see two or more colors at once, if so, which colors and for how long?
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    So you see, it's a question wide open to interpretation today, all within the bounds of possible. So it's not reasonable to say we know exactly what happened. 
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    We don't know exactly what happened when Our Lord rose from the dead. Did He step down to the ground? Did He rise up from the place He laid as if levitating? Did He put His right foot down to the ground first or His left foot? How did the "napkin" that had covered His face get folded? Did He fold it or did an angel? What exactly caused the stone to roll back -- did Our Lord push it with His hands or did some other force move it? There are lots of unanswered questions.
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Why did the Sun dance in 1917?
    « Reply #8 on: October 13, 2017, 10:44:09 PM »
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  • Not unusual? I never heard of any other vision of 70,000 people which others did not see.

    The son danced and everyone there saw it. It was not a "vision".

    I read somewhere where scientist say it could be done with a giant prism.
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    I think you are correct, that there has never before been any event seen by 70,000 people which others did not see. That's why the Miracle of the Sun can be recognized as a sight MORE CREDIBLE than a private revelation. 
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    It is not a prophetic Apostolic revelation either, because prophetic Apostolic revelations ceased with the death of St. John the Evangelist. So it's in between the two, what we can call a public prophetic revelation. It was observed and verified by unanimous consent of the general public at that time, even seen by some who had no desire to agree to having seen anything like this. Those who had come to the Cova to denounce it as mere superstition or the imaginations of unscientific simpletons or whatever, were convinced that they had seen what everyone else had seen. 
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    So it was, let's say, an infallibly convincing sight, which even no hardened non-believer could resist.
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