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Author Topic: What do Flat Earthers Believe is the Single Most Compelling Piece of Evidence..  (Read 59554 times)

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Offline Neil Obstat

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    Quote from: Neil Obstat on January 06, 2018, 06:16:46 PM
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    Flat-earthers practice gnosticism ...
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    No they don't.  We've gone through this before.
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    It would be great if you could for example refute all the numerous problems with flat-earthism, some of which I have mentioned in the previous post above. If you think the questions have been settled then you are required to post links to where that happened. Good luck.
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    The gnosticism of flat-earthism is squarely founded on their reliance on esoteric platitudes such as "the moon is translucent" or "the moon produces its own light" and so on. They have no explanation for how these things can be what they say they are, and cannot answer simple questions with coherent and intelligible responses, but instead they huddle together in their exile and imagine bad intentions of their opponents. That is what gnosticism is all about. Secret societies practice gnosticism. That doesn't mean they all agree with each other. It only means they think they are the only ones who know what's really going on because they have secret knowledge that others don't have access to. 
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    Flat-earthers can't come up with their own answers but rely on someone else to answer for them, most curiously, someone who is no longer living so they can't post here on CI, such as "Enoch" or "Cosmas." 
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    It doesn't matter who you want to conjure up, they can't answer simple questions such as the many questions related to the phases of the moon. Which see.
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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  • The Church has the authority to decide that an opinion on science is contrary to Scripture and dangerous to the Faith. Evolution is a clear example of that. (Heliocentrism is less so since the condemnation was later lifted.) Lay people do not have the authority to make those sorts of claims.  The Church has never taught anything like that about a globe earth.

    You quote Saints who drew conclusions about physical science from Scripture long before Pope Leo taught not to.  This does not cancel out his teaching so that we who know of it may ignore it.  And it is ironic that you cite St. Augustine when you ignore the principle he taught:

    The flat earthers are not insisting on a literal interpretation, but a literalistic one.  

    A literal interpretation is one that considers the information that the Sacred author intends to convey.  
    A literalistic one takes figurative language as if it were literal.  

    When a passage is about the Second Coming, for example, the literal interpretation concerns the Second Coming.  

    A literalistic one finds a figure of speech in the passage, treats it as literal and deduces that the earth is flat, even though it is obvious that the author had no intention to teach about this.  
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    You scored a bullseye here, Jaynek. 
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    A literalistic person practices literalism while literalistcally looking for a literalist meaning in everything. 
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    But the Church never has and never will support literalism.
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    Proper understanding of Scripture does not seek to impute literalism into everything in the Bible.
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    Offline Truth is Eternal

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    No they don't.  We've gone through this before.

    .
    It would be great if you could for example refute all the numerous problems with flat-earthism, some of which I have mentioned in the previous post above. If you think the questions have been settled then you are required to post links to where that happened. Good luck.
    .
    The gnosticism of flat-earthism is squarely founded on their reliance on esoteric platitudes such as "the moon is translucent" or "the moon produces its own light" and so on. They have no explanation for how these things can be what they say they are, and cannot answer simple questions with coherent and intelligible responses, but instead they huddle together in their exile and imagine bad intentions of their opponents. That is what gnosticism is all about. Secret societies practice gnosticism. That doesn't mean they all agree with each other. It only means they think they are the only ones who know what's really going on because they have secret knowledge that others don't have access to.
    .
    Flat-earthers can't come up with their own answers but rely on someone else to answer for them, most curiously, someone who is no longer living so they can't post here on CI, such as "Enoch" or "Cosmas."
    .
    It doesn't matter who you want to conjure up, they can't answer simple questions such as the many questions related to the phases of the moon. Which see.
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    God created the flat earth. God was not in error when He created the flat earth.

    Offline Smedley Butler

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  • .
    There are many things about the phases of the moon that demonstrate how the earth's surface is spheroidal.
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    For example:
    -- Everywhere on the earth where the moon is visible, everyone always sees the same phase at the same time.
      There is no exception to this fact.
      But if the earth were "flat," viewers separated by a few thousand miles would always see a DIFFERENT phase.
      That NEVER happens. Therefore, the earth cannot be "flat."
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    -- At the first quarter moon and the last quarter moon, at that very hour the moon makes a right triangle with the sun and earth.
      With the moon at the 90 degree corner, we can measure the angle of the earth's corner, which turns out to be 89.6 degrees.
      Since the sum of the three interior angles of any triangle is 180 degrees, that leaves 0.4 degrees for the sun's corner.
      This is a very thin and long triangle, with the earth and moon at one end and the sun at the other end.
      The sun is placed over 300 times further from earth than the moon is from the earth.
      This is impossible on a "flat" earth model, therefore the "flat" earth model is shown to be impossible.
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    -- When we look up at the moon from waxing crescent to waning crescent (all except new moon) we see the following:
      The moon's illuminated side always faces the sun. Therefore we can see it's the sun that makes the moon light up.
      Flat-earthers are all in disagreement about this so they have all kinds of silly explanations, like:
      -- The moon is translucent and you can see stars shining through it
          The moon does not shine by the sun's light but is illuminated from inside (somehow but we don't know how).
          The moon is a flat disk not a globe and the phases we see have nothing to do with the sun (?).
          Since none of their silly claims ever amount to a "hill of beans" consequently flat-earthism is relegated to urban legend.
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    -- The full moon at midnight is always directly overhead, from any point of view on earth. Therefore:
       We can easily imagine where the sun is located in order to make the moon look this way.
       With the moon overhead at "high noon" position in the sky, the sun must be under our feet on the other side of the earth.
       The moon, earth and sun must be in a straight line in space for us to see the moon "full" as we do in a full moon.
       -- But flat-earthers claim the sun is circling above the "flat" earth and is therefore behind our back, to the north.
           If the sun were where flat-earthers say it is, we ought to see a shadow at the bottom of the moon, not a full moon.
           Since we never see a shadow at the bottom of the moon during full moon, the earth cannot be "flat."      
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    Do you need more examples?
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    All 100% false.
    And the moon is never "under our feet."
    You are profoundly dumb and will buy anything your helio devils tell you.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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  • All 100% false.
    And the moon is never "under our feet."
    You are profoundly dumb and will buy anything your helio devils tell you.
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    You're wrong, again, as usual.
    You have nothing intelligent to say, as usual.
    You give flat-earthism a black eye with your stupidity and insolence.
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    I doubt very much that you are Catholic and must be a subversive troll here to make Catholics look bad.
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    Idiot.
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    Offline Jaynek

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    You scored a bullseye here, Jaynek.
    .
    A literalistic person practices literalism while literalistcally looking for a literalist meaning in everything.
    .
    But the Church never has and never will support literalism.
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    Proper understanding of Scripture does not seek to impute literalism into everything in the Bible.
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    Note how strongly St. Augustine wrote when he addressed this issue in On Christian Doctrine:
    – Book III, Ch. 5
    Quote
    CHAP. 5.--IT IS A WRETCHED SLAVERY WHICH TAKES THE FIGURATIVE EXPRESSIONS OF SCRIPTURE IN A LITERAL SENSE.
    9.But the ambiguities of metaphorical words, about which I am next to speak, demand no ordinary care and diligence. In the first place, we must beware of taking a figurative expression literally. For the saying of the apostle applies in this case too: "The letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."(2) For when what is said figuratively is taken as if it were said literally, it is understood in a carnal manner. And nothing is more fittingly called the death of the soul than when that in it which raises it above the brutes, the intelligence namely, is put in subjection to the flesh by a blind adherence to the letter. For he who follows the letter takes figurative words as if they were proper, and does not carry out what is indicated by a proper word into its secondary signification... Now it is surely a miserable slavery of the soul to take signs for things, and to be unable to lift the eye of the mind above what is corporeal and created, that it may drink in eternal light.

    Offline Meg

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  • God created the flat earth. God was not in error when He created the flat earth.

    Agreed. The globers try to prove the pagan NASA globe earth as best they can. But they cannot change what God has created. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Ladislaus

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  • Agreed. The globers try to prove the pagan NASA globe earth as best they can. But they cannot change what God has created.

    Nobody's trying to "change" anything.  They differ with you regarding what it is that God created.


    Offline Smedley Butler

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  • .
    You're wrong, again, as usual.
    You have nothing intelligent to say, as usual.
    You give flat-earthism a black eye with your stupidity and insolence.
    .
    I doubt very much that you are Catholic and must be a subversive troll here to make Catholics look bad.
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    Idiot.
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    Whatever you say, Spamstat.
    I'll side with the Word, not your employer NASA.

    Offline Smedley Butler

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  • Note how strongly St. Augustine wrote when he addressed this issue in On Christian Doctrine:
    – Book III, Ch. 5
    Yeah, that whole "Eat my flesh and drink my blood thing is really soul killing slavery. :facepalm:

    Offline Jaynek

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  • Yeah, that whole "Eat my flesh and drink my blood thing is really soul killing slavery. :facepalm:
    No Catholic should say that "eat my flesh and drink my blood" is an example of a figurative expression.  The Eucharist really is the Body and Blood of Christ.  Non-Catholics often claim it is a figure of speech but they are wrong.  St. Augustine's condemnation of taking figurative expressions literally refers genuine figures of speech, not the false claims of non-Catholics.


    Offline Meg

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  • Yeah, that whole "Eat my flesh and drink my blood thing is really soul killing slavery. :facepalm:

    Good example above, for those who believe that we cannot take Scripture literally. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Ladislaus

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  • Good example above, for those who believe that we cannot take Scripture literally.

    No one has ever said that we "cannot" take Scripture literally.  On the contrary, it is you who are saying that we cannot take some of the "flat earth" passages as metaphors.

    Offline Smedley Butler

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  • No Catholic should say that "eat my flesh and drink my blood" is an example of a figurative expression.  The Eucharist really is the Body and Blood of Christ.  Non-Catholics often claim it is a figure of speech but they are wrong.  St. Augustine's condemnation of taking figurative expressions literally refers genuine figures of speech, not the false claims of non-Catholics.
    No kidding, Captain Obvious.
    You completely miss the point, as usual. 
    What would the poor denizens of CI do without Jaynek's brilliance to guide and illuminate them? 

    Offline Smedley Butler

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  • The distinction to be made resides in this example:

    When Our Lord indicates a metaphor He says 'as' or 'like,' meaning "similar to."

    As in the heavens are spread out like a tent, i.e. similar to a tent.

    Literal: He says He sits above the circle of earth, i.e. the earth IS a circle, not 'like' a circle.

    Metaphor: the people are spread out like locusts, i.e. they are similar to locusts, as there are so MANY seen from so high up.

    Literal: My flesh IS meat indeed.

    YES, it is.
    He does not say 'like' meat, or 'as' meat.

    There is no passage in the Bible that says earth is a globe, or that it rotates, or that it moves about the sun.