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Author Topic: What do Flat Earthers Believe is the Single Most Compelling Piece of Evidence..  (Read 62324 times)

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Offline Meg

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  • The fact that he is not Catholic has been of concern to me ever since he mentioned it and I have thought about what I can do to help bring him back to the Catholic Church.  Why use such a tone to discuss this?  We are talking about somebody's salvation.

    I doubt that it is significant that freemasons agree with globe earth since the vast majority of people, including traditional Catholics, also agree with globe earth.

    Except that there are really quite a few trads who believe in a flat earth, given how few trads there really are in the world. Look at the numbers of flat earth trads just on this forum. 

    I'm just glad that Rough Ashlar is on your side and not mine. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Meg

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  • What have I been dishonest about?  Its not like I took a saints name or a latin phrase and hid behind it.  I used masonic term, and have answered you and everyone else honestly when asked.  You knew about this a while ago when we discussed it.

    Why is that you are making a big deal about it now opposed to back then?  Why not counter my argument?

    Why is a Protestant freemason spending time on a Traditional Catholic forum? 

    I don't participate on any protestant forums, or freemasonic forums (if there is such a thing). 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Jaynek

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  • Except that there are really quite a few trads who believe in a flat earth, given how few trads there really are in the world. Look at the numbers of flat earth trads just on this forum.

    I have seen around a dozen of you posting here.  It is not a large proportion of the members although probably larger than in the general population.

    Offline Meg

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  • Why use such a tone to discuss this?  We are talking about somebody's salvation.

    Oh, so now it's about someone's salvation, and if I'm not nice to the resident protestant freemason, he might not want to ever be a Catholic again, right?

    Heaven help us! What nonsense!

    A Vatican ll moment if I ever saw one. Yikes.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Jaynek

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  • Oh, so now it's about someone's salvation, and if I'm not nice to the resident protestant freemason, he might not want to ever be a Catholic again, right?

    Heaven help us! What nonsense!

    A Vatican ll moment if I ever saw one. Yikes.
    Nonsense that you made up, not that I wrote.


    Offline RoughAshlar

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  • So your fellow freemasons at your freemasonic lodge don't talk about the globe earth, or the flat earth? Well, there are literally thousands of freemasonic lodges in the U.S., and even more around the world. You don't know what they discuss in all of them.
    That's very true, there are a lot of them and I don't know what's discussed in each one.  I hate to be a shatter your conspiratorial ideas, but its pretty well established that most everyone believes the earth is a globe.  Even you admitted in the Catholic church (NO and tradition) this is the case.  It would be like talking about water being wet.  We discussed in private messages why I was here.  I have family across the traditional spectrum still and Cathinfo has a wide range of info to know what's going on.  I choose to use some free time to debate FE on here? If you are in the right, why does it bother you Meg.  Why didn't make a big deal about this on Dec 1st when we spoke or on that one thread.  Why choose to do this now, instead of discuss my actual argument?

    Offline Meg

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  • That's very true, there are a lot of them and I don't know what's discussed in each one.  I hate to be a shatter your conspiratorial ideas, but its pretty well established that most everyone believes the earth is a globe.  Even you admitted in the Catholic church (NO and tradition) this is the case.  It would be like talking about water being wet.  We discussed in private messages why I was here.  I have family across the traditional spectrum still and Cathinfo has a wide range of info to know what's going on.  I choose to use some free time to debate FE on here? If you are in the right, why does it bother you Meg.  Why didn't make a big deal about this on Dec 1st when we spoke or on that one thread.  Why choose to do this now, instead of discuss my actual argument?

    It shouldn't bother me that a protestant freemason such as yourself is posting on Cath info, or that JayneK keeps defending you?

    Right. Got it.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Jaynek

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  • It shouldn't bother me that a protestant freemason such as yourself is posting on Cath info, or that JayneK keeps defending you?
    I have said that I am concerned about his salvation and that I have a problem with ad hominem arguments.  That is defending him?
    ::)


    Offline Meg

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  • I have said that I am concerned about his salvation and that I have a problem with ad hominem arguments.  That is defending him?
    ::)

    You've done nothing but defend the freemason for the last two pages. Why are you being dishonest about that?

    I'm taking a break from debating with a freemason and his supporter. It's quite futile, really. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Jaynek

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  • You've done nothing but defend the freemason for the last two pages. Why are you being dishonest about that?
    You are mischaracterizing my posts as defending a freemason.  What I am defending is logic.  You have been committing the logical fallacy of argumentum ad hominem.   This bothers me whenever I see it, no matter what people are involved or what they believe.

    Offline RoughAshlar

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  • You've done nothing but defend the freemason for the last two pages. Why are you being dishonest about that?
    I didn't see her defend me, she was just calling you out on not addressing my argument (that was originally directed to TiE and smed).  You have known about me for the last month... to the day.  Why derail my argument today when you could have done all this within the last 30 days.


    Offline Smedley Butler

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  • Its been argued that FE must be believed as a matter of faith, otherwise you are a pagan, heretic, blasphemer, leading souls to hell, stupid, etc....without the support of a single traditional priest supporting that ideology...goes as far as TiE saying that he is a real Catholic because he believes in FE and Smedley thinking he is part of the few faithful that have broken through the 500 years of indoctrination and that the Church will catch up soon.  For all the bluster of accusations and condemnation, there is no priest that thinks this way.  If they are taking their version of Catholicism this far... Do Tie and Smed call their parish priest stupid, pagan, heretic, blasphemer....if they feel that someone who won't convert to FE is these things, then how they can receive any sacrament from them?  Would that not be a sin in it self?  Its a double standard and they get to play tough online.

    I do believe that its changing the subject.  Why does it matter? You've ready the large font bolt type condemning and accusing of hellfire.  That is not discussing, educating, or trying to convert....where to they get to condemn hell something that NOT ONE priest supports? I'm arguing against FE, I've never one argued anything on here from a masonic point of view or from the view point of the protestant religion of which I belong to now..  And for all that have asked both public and private I have been open and honest.  
    The FE awakening is much bigger than you suggest.
    Fisheaters has an 80+ page thread.
    Suscipe Domine has a long thread.
    It is a vital topic worldwide.
    It mskes sense as we approach the end of days, which is an unveiling of all that was hidden.
    The truth is no longer hidden,  it's up to you to accept it.

    Offline Truth is Eternal

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  • These Freemasons are so predictable in their ball Baal worship.

    Offline Smedley Butler

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  • Wait,  Rough Ashlar is a Protestant Freemason??

    Wow
    Well, makes sense Jaynek would support him since she belongs to VII Church of luv and ecuмenism.

    RA - do you believe we went to the moon? Curious. ...

    Offline kiwiboy

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  • I can see it was not clear enough for you to understand, but I would not go as far as to call it incoherent. 

    You quoted question 3.  I first made the point that a docuмent that you yourself had cited contained a section that supported what I was saying and quoted question 7 to demonstrate this.  Then I went on to discuss question 3 and your claims about it.  In hindsight, I think it would have been clearer the other way around.
    Your quote was immediately preceded by the words: "Is it possible, in particular, to call in question the literal and historical meaning where there is question of facts narrated in these same chapters that touch the ..." Taken as a whole we can see that you quoted one item from a list of Scriptural facts that cannot be questioned because they are foundational to our faith.  I, of course, agree that it wrong to question the fact that the creation of all things was accomplished by God at the beginning of time. I agree that it is an important part of the faith.  It is even part of the Creed.

    You seem to understand what you quoted as saying that everything pertaining to creation should be understood in a literalistic way, but that is not correct.  For example, further on in the same docuмent, we see that it is not necessary to interpret the seven days of creation as literal 24 hour periods.  Please see the thread I started on what the expression "literal sense of Scripture" means for more details. 
    It is wrong to insist that Scripture must be interpreted in a literalistic way and that therefore Catholics are obliged to believe in a flat earth.  This position involves rejecting the teaching of Providentissimus Deus.  This is the sin that needs to be repented of.

    It is quite true that nowhere does it say that we must believe in a globe shaped earth.  It does not follow from this that a flat earth is part of the Catholic faith.  I keep insisting that it is wrong to believe in a flat earth because one mistakenly thinks it is an obligatory part of the faith.  It may be acceptable to believe in a flat earth for other reasons.
    No, it has nothing to do with assuming that the earth is a globe.  Ladislaus, who is open to the possibility that the earth is flat has, like me, expressed that he thinks it is wrong to interpret Scripture so as to claim that belief in a flat earth is part of the Catholic faith.  He seems to understand Providentissimus Deus much as I do.

    It seems that kiwiboy wants to establish that I am a heretic for believing in a spherical earth. I think it is fair to call someone with such a goal a "dogmatic flat earther."  It is interesting that he sees Meg as working with him on this goal when she denies being such a thing.

    On the questions question. Question 7 only refers to the literal interpretation of 7 days. It doesnt talk about the nature of the creation itself.

    My quote was immediately preceded by those words, and the answer was NO.

    I never said that everything relating to be creation in a literalistic way. The Bible is not a science book. But you are wrong to attack people for interpreting it in a literalistic way. Because the science supports us on certain points notbaly, the non curvature of the earth.

    It is therefore NOT wrong to insist that certain point be interpretated in a literalistic way, ESPECIALLY when science supports that point.

    So your sin to repent of is attacking people over this particular point and attacks on people intrepreting scripture literally in general.