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Author Topic: What do Flat Earthers Believe is the Single Most Compelling Piece of Evidence..  (Read 59210 times)

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Offline Jaynek

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  • Jaynek,
    Not everything before VII was perfect.
    The Popes can make mistakes.
    Who gets to decide when popes have made mistakes?  Who has the authority to say that about all the encyclicals teaching that Scripture is not intended and should not be used as teaching on science? How does one justify saying that multiple popes authoritatively teaching on how to interpret Scripture got it wrong?  And how does one prevent everybody from throwing out the teachings they do not like by claiming that "Popes can make mistakes"?

    Offline RoughAshlar

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  • I just got to pop in and say pull it together people.  There is a lot of the pot calling the kettle black.  So and so is being "judgemental", so and so is being "fantastically stupid", so an so isn't listening to reason.  Take a breath people.  So far to date has anyone conceded a single point in this argument?  When someone is appears to be targeted, the other side just dog piles. I feel its challenging on my end because a comment may be answered on a wide spectrum of belief on the issue in the FE side.  Just my thoughts, but seriously everyone needs to take a step back and breathe.


    Offline Smedley Butler

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  • It is not Heliocentrism that leads to a loss of faith, but rather trying to use exegetical principles other than those taught by the Church.  When people try to use the Bible to determine matters of physical science, it is inevitable that there be apparent conflicts between Scripture and science, as well as within Scripture itself, because that is not its intended meaning.  When people accept the Church teaching that Scripture does not intend to speak of physical science, there will never be such conflicts.
    What ignorant remarks!
    Galileo was censured because heliocentrism leads to a loss of faith.
    READ THE DECREE.
    It is not just Protestant misreading of Scripture that causes loss of faith, it is IDEAS about our physical world which are in error.
    The Church never taught that Scripture does not intend to speak of physical science.
    You are dead wrong, as usual.

    Offline Meg

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  • I mean, Jaynek judges people, not for what they actually say, but for what she takes great pains to read into their posts.  Reading the above post from Jaynek and Meg, it seems clear that Meg is trying to say that Heliocentrism led to a loss of faith among many Catholics.  This of course is a matter of historical opinion, but it is an opinion that is held by many historians.  I mean, if The Bible depicts a flat stationary Earth (which isn't even controversial, sorry if you didn't know that, but it does), then many people would reject it, based on a "scientific" belief that the Earth is a spinning globe.  

    Thanks, I appreciate your support. I should have maybe done a better job of explaining what I meant. I just assume that after having participated on these threads, that everyone here knew what I meant (even if they don't agree with it).

    The globe earth leads to secular humanism, because it teaches that our earth is just another globe; one among many. We're just not that big a deal - though our earth does support life, of course. But it may or may not have had a creator, since it's basically the same shape as the others out there. And it has led to assertions that there must be life on other planets. Most people on earth believe in the heliocentric model, which teaches that earth is just one of the planets that rotate around the sun. The sun is at the center, not the earth. I used to watch the history channel, years ago, and all of the goofy alien theories they promote are just ridiculous. Yet they get away with it, because of the heliocentric model. Even my mom (who isn't at all religious) believes in the Jeremiah Sitchin view that we humans were once aliens on other planets. And now my oldest son is starting to believe in those theories, too. This is just one example of how secular humanism depends on the heliocentric globe model.

    I'll try to explain it as best I can, as to why the flat earth is important. Hopefully other flatearthers will chime in too, with another perspective on the same thing:

    Since the Bible depicts a flat stationary earth (as you mention above WholeFoodsTrad), we know by how different it is from the other bodies out there, such as the sun and moon, which are round. A stationary flat earth, located under the sun, moon, and stars, with a dome above it, as scripture depicts, makes it unmistakable that there is a creator who has put our earth as the center of creation, since the sun, moon, and stars rotate above the earth under a dome.  On a flat earth, the sun is made for the earth and the earth alone, since it moves above the earth. It is obvious that God created all of it with us in mind.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Smedley Butler

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  • Meg is correct.
    The Bible specifically states that earth is not a celestial body and that the celestial bodies are distinctly different and separate from earth.
    Jaynek must have missed that part.


    Offline Smedley Butler

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  • 1 Cor 15:40-41

    But don't tell Jaynek this passage is teaching about physical science, since Our Lord is telling us the earth is NOT the same as the sun, moon, and stars, as she falsely claims.

    The earth is a FLAT terrestrial PLANE.

    It is NOT a spherical heavenly body.

    The Bible says it,  it is de fide.

    Offline Jaynek

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  • What ignorant remarks!
    Galileo was censured because heliocentrism leads to a loss of faith.
    READ THE DECREE.
    It is not just Protestant misreading of Scripture that causes loss of faith, it is IDEAS about our physical world which are in error.
    The Church never taught that Scripture does not intend to speak of physical science.
    You are dead wrong, as usual.
    As I wrote in the other thread, the Church was quite right to condemn Galileo's ideas.  She had not yet made completely clear the principle that Scripture does not teach about physical science.  It had been taught by Doctors of the Church, but not yet by popes.  At a time when many people would not have understood how to interpret Scripture, it was dangerous to the Faith to promote heliocentrism.  But, as the situation changed in various ways, the Church was later able to permit heliocentrism.

    I am quite puzzled as to how you can claim the Church has never taught that Scripture does not intend to speak of physical science.  People here have repeatedly presented quotes from Doctors and Popes that show this.

    I think one of the most harmful ideas about our physical world is that Faith is in conflict with science.  Catholics who refuse to accept Church teaching on Scriptural exigesis contribute to this problem.

    Offline Jaynek

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  • Since the Bible depicts a flat stationary earth (as you mention above WholeFoodsTrad), we know by how different it is from the other bodies out there, such as the sun and moon, which are round. A stationary flat earth, located under the sun, moon, and stars, with a dome above it, as scripture depicts, makes it unmistakable that there is a creator who has put our earth as the center of creation, since the sun, moon, and stars rotate above the earth under a dome.  On a flat earth, the sun is made for the earth and the earth alone, since it moves above the earth. It is obvious that God created all of it with us in mind.
    By writing this, you are ignoring/rejecting how the Church teaches us to interpret Scripture.  
    We can grasp just how serious this error is when we consider that it was central to the heresy of the Protestants.  Please accept the teaching of the Church.


    Offline Meg

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  • By writing this, you are ignoring/rejecting how the Church teaches us to interpret Scripture.  
    We can grasp just how serious this error is when we consider that it was central to the heresy of the Protestants.  Please accept the teaching of the Church.

    The Catholic Church does not teach that the earth is a globe.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Jaynek

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  • Jaynek exists here under dishonest and deceptive purposes.  She bragged at Suscipe Domine about engaging the "dumb" flat earth folks at CI and stated she doesn't even think they are real Catholics and are here faking their beliefs.
    What say you, my fellow flat earth believers? Care to tell Jaynek she is full of rubbish?
    Quite a few flat earth believers have posted since this appeared and presumably have read it, as well as my post containing what I actually wrote on SD.  Not one of you has had anything to say about the lack of truth to Smedley's claims.  I did not brag.  I did not use the word "dumb".  I did not state that flat earth folks are not real Catholics nor that they are faking their beliefs.

    The only person to call out Smedley for his falsehoods has been Ladislaus.

    I have seen many claims from flat earth believers that they are motivated by their desire for truth.  I would find these claims more credible if you seemed to care that someone is lying to you about my SD post, apparently for the purpose of inciting a mob against me.  Where is your desire for truth now?

    Offline Jaynek

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  • The Catholic Church does not teach that the earth is a globe.
    The Catholic Church teaches us to discover the shape of the earth by using science rather than reading meanings into Scripture that it was never intended to have.


    Offline Meg

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  • I have seen many claims from flat earth believers that they are motivated by their desire for truth.  I would find these claims more credible if you seemed to care that someone is lying to you about my SD post, apparently for the purpose of inciting a mob against me.  Where is your desire for truth now?

    The Catholic Church does not teach that the earth is a globe.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline kiwiboy

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  • Who gets to decide when popes have made mistakes?  Who has the authority to say that about all the encyclicals teaching that Scripture is not intended and should not be used as teaching on science? How does one justify saying that multiple popes authoritatively teaching on how to interpret Scripture got it wrong?  And how does one prevent everybody from throwing out the teachings they do not like by claiming that "Popes can make mistakes"?

    The truth can be discerned by anyone. Since you reject science, you have a lop-sided view of things and your judgment is therefore not trustworthy.
     
    So far as I have seen you have only provided Leo XIII which is not a very clear quote anyway in reference to globe earthism.

    Meg is right to point out that this is all in relation to your husband. If your husband were to corporally punish you for being a flat earther, he would be wrong to do so and you would gain much merit for heaven.

    Fear not.

    Offline kiwiboy

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  • The Catholic Church teaches us to discover the shape of the earth by using science rather than reading meanings into Scripture that it was never intended to have.

    I agree.

    Offline kiwiboy

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  • Quite a few flat earth believers have posted since this appeared and presumably have read it, as well as my post containing what I actually wrote on SD.  Not one of you has had anything to say about the lack of truth to Smedley's claims.  I did not brag.  I did not use the word "dumb".  I did not state that flat earth folks are not real Catholics nor that they are faking their beliefs.

    The only person to call out Smedley for his falsehoods has been Ladislaus.

    I have seen many claims from flat earth believers that they are motivated by their desire for truth.  I would find these claims more credible if you seemed to care that someone is lying to you about my SD post, apparently for the purpose of inciting a mob against me.  Where is your desire for truth now?

    Cry me a river sweetheart. Read my posts above.