Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: What do Flat Earthers Believe is the Single Most Compelling Piece of Evidence..  (Read 59262 times)

0 Members and 73 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline kiwiboy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 518
  • Reputation: +217/-455
  • Gender: Male
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • When people talk about scripture being silent as to the shape of the earth, it refers to the shape of the FLAT earth.

    Some of us believe it is a circle, others believe it is a square/rectangle.

    But to say it was a globe was completely absurd for the Church Fathers.

    Offline kiwiboy

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 518
    • Reputation: +217/-455
    • Gender: Male
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!2
  • The "people" you are talking about is St. Basil, one of the Church Fathers.
    There were only a few that expressed their belief in a flat Earth and in turn implied their non-belief in a round Earth. One Father condemned round Earth. There are several quotes implying belief in a round-earth or indifference to the subject in general by Church Fathers.
    Your final line is a lie.
     

    I have asked you already to stop posting, because you have adequately shown yourself to be dishonest, and not capable of engaging in rational, civil discussion.

    Accusing me of lying when you are doing that is completely ridiculous and audacious.

    When the Church Fathers spoke of the round earth, they condemned it. You won't and can't change that. It is the truth. See this link http://flatearthtrads.forumga.net/t60-pertinent-quotes-from-fathers-and-tradition



    Do you now claim that St. Basil supported the round earth? I'd love to see that quote.

    The science supports Tradition, and Tradition supports the science. That is why I love this topic, because it is so convincing from no matter what angle you come at it.


    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46600
    • Reputation: +27457/-5070
    • Gender: Male
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • When the Church Fathers spoke of the round earth, they condemned it. You won't and can't change that. It is the truth.

    It's unclear whether they condemned it as a matter of faith or simply rejected the opinion as absurd for other reasons, including scientific and philosophical ones.  In order to establish dogmatic consensus, one would have to read in the Fathers that it's a matter of faith, has been revealed, and is part of the Deposit of Revelation.  I do not believe that is evident.

    Offline happenby

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2768
    • Reputation: +1077/-1637
    • Gender: Female
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!2
  • It's unclear whether they condemned it as a matter of faith or simply rejected the opinion as absurd for other reasons, including scientific and philosophical ones.  In order to establish dogmatic consensus, one would have to read in the Fathers that it's a matter of faith, has been revealed, and is part of the Deposit of Revelation.  I do not believe that is evident.
    "The proposition that the Sun is the centre of the world and does not move from its place is absurd and false philosophically and formally heretical, because it is expressly contrary to the Holy Scripture."

     
    "The proposition that the Earth is not the centre of the world and immovable but that it moves, and also with a diurnal motion, is equally absurd and false philosophically and theologically considered at least erroneous in faith."

    "...after it has been declared and defined as contrary to Holy Scripture...From which we are content that you be absolved, provided that...you abjure, curse, and detest before us the aforesaid errors and heresies and every other error and heresy contrary to the Catholic and Apostolic Roman Church."



    Although stated without ambiguity using these statements, the 1633 Holy Office shows elsewhere, not only high contempt for Copernicanism, but also insists that it injures the Faith. 

    Offline happenby

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2768
    • Reputation: +1077/-1637
    • Gender: Female
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • .
    The Miracle of the Sun at Fatima was a stark reminder for all, So they may believe, because in the prophesy of Scripture, in the last days the sun, moon and stars will lose their regular motion.
    .
    The sun at Fatima in 1917 lost its regular motion, for all present to see, first hand.
    .
    Scientists and irreligious pundits had long been scoffing at this prophesy saying there is no way these bodies could lose their regular motion; and I have spoken to contemporaries (you may have as well) who refuse to think that the sun did what 70,000 people saw it do, on the grounds that it is impossible for the sun to do that. So even today, the scoffers remain, those who refuse to believe.
    .
    As Our Lady said, this was done so they may believe, and nearly everyone there did in fact believe. She did not promise that the miracle would convert the world.
    .
    Even those who had come with the intention to ridicule believers, when they saw the sun falling down to earth, changed their hearts in a moment from disbelief to belief.
    .
    But this fact has nothing to do with the shape of the earth, it has to do with the regular motion of the sun being interrupted.
    .
    It has to do with a reminder that we are approaching the last days, when not only the sun but the moon and stars will lose their regular motion, and it is a reminder for all that the day will come when not only the sun but the moon and stars will perhaps come loose from their positions in the sky from time immemorial, and they will all begin to fall to the earth, when God rolls up the heavens like a scroll.
    .
    See, this is where the naysayers think they gain ground.  You said: "But this fact has nothing to do with the shape of the earth" 
    No one said that the sun falling down to earth suggests the shape of the earth.  This is ridiculous assessment of what was said and again totally missed the point.  But then, that's what nay-saying does for a living.


    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46600
    • Reputation: +27457/-5070
    • Gender: Male
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • "The proposition that the Sun is the centre of the world and does not move from its place is absurd and false philosophically and formally heretical, because it is expressly contrary to the Holy Scripture."

     
    "The proposition that the Earth is not the centre of the world and immovable but that it moves, and also with a diurnal motion, is equally absurd and false philosophically and theologically considered at least erroneous in faith."

    "...after it has been declared and defined as contrary to Holy Scripture...From which we are content that you be absolved, provided that...you abjure, curse, and detest before us the aforesaid errors and heresies and every other error and heresy contrary to the Catholic and Apostolic Roman Church."



    Although stated without ambiguity using these statements, the 1633 Holy Office shows elsewhere, not only high contempt for Copernicanism, but also insists that it injures the Faith.

    This is about geocentrism and not Flat Earth.  Why do you keep conflating the two?  They are not the same thing.  I am in fact a staunch geocentrist but remain undecided about globe vs. flat earth.

    Offline happenby

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2768
    • Reputation: +1077/-1637
    • Gender: Female
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • This is about geocentrism and not Flat Earth.  Why do you keep conflating the two?  They are not the same thing.  I am in fact a staunch geocentrist but remain undecided about globe vs. flat earth.
    Sorry, but there are only two models, (especially back in the 1600s).  One is geocentrism.  The other is heliocentrism.  Geocentrism has always been a flat earth model.  Only recently, under the mistaken notion that earth had to be a ball because NASA has pictures, while earth is stationary because scripture and the Church say so, is a totally mistaken notion and utterly brand new, largely promoted by the string theory NASA loving Robert Sungenis. Copernicus' model is a paradigm obtained from Pythagarus (and shored up by pagans along the way) and always included a spherical moving earth and spherical planets.  The arguments between saints or Catholic scholars against the pagans throughout the centuries proves this over and over again.  I've shown dozens and dozens of quotes throughout these pages to prove what the saints have been saying over and over again, but because people read them with the thought that earth is a stationary globe, they never see what was REALLY being said.  Preconceived notions are largely to blame.     
    Not only is it ridiculous to conclude that men can walk around on the outside of a ball, or that water pools around the outside of a sphere, it is equally absurd that stars are planets, as NASA and preceding pagans claim.  Stars are provably lights and not terra firma worlds.  Anyone can view this with a decent camera from their own back yard. Science and math both back up scripture, the Church, and the Fathers.  But the fascinating thing is, Scripture, the Fathers and the Church preceded the science and technologies of today in teaching earth is not a moving globe.
     

    Offline happenby

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2768
    • Reputation: +1077/-1637
    • Gender: Female
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1

  • The war between the theology of the Church and the theology of Satan has been carried down through the centuries, among other places, within the sciences:

    Martin Wagner conducted an objective and thorough study of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and wrote a book about his findings titled “Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ: An Interpretation” In the book it is found that the Kabbalah is unadulterated witchcraft and occultism.

    Zionist Kabbalah Jews hide behind Gentile Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and control the sciences through various arms of the government, including NASA.


    Offline happenby

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2768
    • Reputation: +1077/-1637
    • Gender: Female
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The Jєωιѕн Encyclopedia states that the Kabbalah is the origin of the philosophy of Pythagoras.  It was the secrets of the Kabbalah that led Pythagoras to heliocentric philosophy.
    German humanist Johannes Reuchlin (1455-1522) says that Pythagorean philosophy emanated from the Jews, not the Greeks.

    Offline happenby

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2768
    • Reputation: +1077/-1637
    • Gender: Female
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • NASA is a Freemasonic entity gobbling up millions in order to indoctrinate the masses. 




    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6790
    • Reputation: +3467/-2999
    • Gender: Female
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • NASA is a Freemasonic entity gobbling up millions in order to indoctrinate the masses.

    The coin is good evidence of the freemasonic affiliation of NASA. I've seen other photos with similar evidence, too. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6790
    • Reputation: +3467/-2999
    • Gender: Female
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The war between the theology of the Church and the theology of Satan has been carried down through the centuries, among other places, within the sciences:

    Martin Wagner conducted an objective and thorough study of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and wrote a book about his findings titled “Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ: An Interpretation” In the book it is found that the Kabbalah is unadulterated witchcraft and occultism.

    Zionist Kabbalah Jews hide behind Gentile Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and control the sciences through various arms of the government, including NASA.

    I think that there's good evidence that the Kabbalah is witchcraft and occultism, and it has far-reaching involvement in the new-age movement, too. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46600
    • Reputation: +27457/-5070
    • Gender: Male
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Sorry, but there are only two models, (especially back in the 1600s).  One is geocentrism.  The other is heliocentrism.  Geocentrism has always been a flat earth model.

    Nope.  Those quotes from the Holy Office condemn heliocentrism.  Heliocentrism and geocentrism are mutually exclusive ... but there ARE other models.  But flat earth is not essential to geocentrism, not scientifically and not theologically.  In fact, even modern science has abandoned heliocentrism ... which holds that the sun is the center of the universe.  Not even with the solar system do they hold the sun to be central; rather, they consider the objects in the solar system (including the sun) to rotate around the solar system's "center of mass".

    In fact, the consensus is for the helical model.  And, to think, everyone went with Copernicus because of the neat little circles you can get for the planets' orbits:



    ... which oddly enough looks more like the Ptolemaic geocentric epicycles than the Copernican circles/ellipses:


    Offline happenby

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2768
    • Reputation: +1077/-1637
    • Gender: Female
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • Nope.  Those quotes from the Holy Office condemn heliocentrism.  Heliocentrism and geocentrism are mutually exclusive ... but there ARE other models.  But flat earth is not essential to geocentrism, not scientifically and not theologically.  In fact, even modern science has abandoned heliocentrism ... which holds that the sun is the center of the universe.  Not even with the solar system do they hold the sun to be central; rather, they consider the objects in the solar system (including the sun) to rotate around the solar system's "center of mass".

    In fact, the consensus is for the helical model.  And, to think, everyone went with Copernicus because of the neat little circles you can get for the planets' orbits:



    ... which oddly enough looks more like the Ptolemaic geocentric epicycles than the Copernican circles/ellipses:


    That's right.  The Church did indeed condemn heliocentrism because it is a pagan model that defies the literal interpretation of scripture.  The Fathers also taught that the firmament is a physical barrier between heaven and earth, and it is shaped like a dome, or like a tent.  None of the representations above even remotely reflect that.  The Fathers taught that Jerusalem is at the center of the earth.  The pictures above reflect the pagan cosmology and would place Jerusalem in the pit of hell, if earth were a globe.  The Church taught that there are no anti-podes, that is, people who walk around on the opposite side of a globe earth, a notion consistent with the pagan globe. 
    What's so fascinating to me is that I've dumped close to 100 proofs, from Catholic and scientific perspectives, along with math proofs, onto these threads showing that earth is not a globe.  NASA however, has done nothing except dress classrooms with globes, pretend man walked on the moon and flash cgi photos while squeezing billions out of believers... yet people readily defend NASA and pagan science without even thinking about it.

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46600
    • Reputation: +27457/-5070
    • Gender: Male
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • That's right.  The Church did indeed condemn heliocentrism because it is a pagan model that defies the literal interpretation of scripture.  The Fathers also taught that the firmament is a physical barrier between heaven and earth, and it is shaped like a dome, or like a tent.  None of the representations above even remotely reflect that.  The Fathers taught that Jerusalem is at the center of the earth.  The pictures above reflect the pagan cosmology and would place Jerusalem in the pit of hell, if earth were a globe.  The Church taught that there are no anti-podes, that is, people who walk around on the opposite side of a globe earth, a notion consistent with the pagan globe.  
    What's so fascinating to me is that I've dumped close to 100 proofs, from Catholic and scientific perspectives, along with math proofs, onto these threads showing that earth is not a globe.  NASA however, has done nothing except dress classrooms with globes, pretend man walked on the moon and flash cgi photos while squeezing billions out of believers... yet people readily defend NASA and pagan science without even thinking about it.

    No, I'm not accepting anything "without even thinking about it".  I'm merely disputing that the Fathers or Church "taught" (as you keep saying) anything about flat earth.  All we have is the Church's condemnation of heliocentrism.  Everything else are opinions.  I'll keep looking at the scientific data, but there's no evidence whatsoever that the Fathers or the Church taught flat earth.