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Traditional Catholic Faith => Fighting Errors in the Modern World => The Earth God Made - Flat Earth, Geocentrism => Topic started by: Neil Obstat on August 27, 2018, 11:46:38 PM

Title: Was the Gleason Map Stolen by Uninformed Opportunists?
Post by: Neil Obstat on August 27, 2018, 11:46:38 PM

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I tried to find a thread this would fit under but couldn't, which speaks for itself, because of the 4 or 5 hundred Flat-Earthdom threads here on CI one would expect to find at least one that centers on the most popular flat-earthdom syndromer map of them all, the one by A. Gleason (A.D. 1893).
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To which topic the following discussion was found on a channel nearyou just yesterday!
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RockinRobbins13
RockinRobbins13 1 day ago KgvJ4q-4jc4&lc=UgzzBMBjx6yTHrdVOiF4AaABAg

If the Flat Earth Cult is so "truthful" why is the flat earth so-called "map" a stolen North Polar Equidistant Azimuthal projection of spherical earth? Why is the north pole in the center of Flatopia? Why did the thieves who stole copyrighted material not properly cover their tracks by removing the longitude and latitude lines from the loot? You DO know that longitude and latitude can only exist on spheres, right? So where's the honesty in theft, lying, removing authorship and explanatory notes from a stolen map? TRUTHERS. Not exactly, huh?

If the Flat Earth Cult is so "truthful" why did they steal the Chicago photographs of Joshua Nowicki, remove his name, remove his explanatory text,  and lie that the photo proves flat earth? http://yourshot.nationalgeographic.com/photos/5895916/ You DO know that Nowicki tours schools, television and radio stations to explain how the Earth is spherical and how the refractive characteristics of a temperature inversion, commonly found over Lake Michigan, allow his photography to be possible don't you?  Here's a link to Nowicki's essay on https://www.swmichigan.org/most-popular/blog/4362-the-view-of-chicago-from-southwestern-michigan-updated.html. So where's the honesty in theft, lying, removing authorship and explanatory notes from a stolen set of photographs? TRUTHERS. Not quite, huh?

If the Flat Earth Cult is so "truthful" why did they steal the world record distance photograph of Marc Brett's Beyond Horizons Team of a peak in the Pyranees Mountains in Spain from 440 kilometers away? Stripping all text from the photograph, including even the description, the Flat Earth Cult thieves seek to silence the photographers of this world record photo and remove even the magnificent accomplishment of their amazing feat.

In fact, Marc Brett and the Beyond Horizons team know full well that they are taking advantage of the refraction afforded by the superior mirage and make this crystal clear in the text the Cultists have secretly removed for the purpose of utter deceit, knowing the truth, choosing of their free will to lie. "Last July, from a more distant peak than on previous occasions (in April I get it also from other summit before sunrise)  and good weather forecast, it made a great success of visibility. The Barre des Ecrins relatively clearly manifested backlight of a sun in close position below the horizon.

To his left, other peaks of the Alps we also seen. Refractive favorable circuмstances allowed to view some other peaks, even that more distant than the Barre des Ecrins. Pic Gaspard, 443 Km, is what has given us this time the brand new World Record of distant photograph of landscapes in our planet."

The photographer is not a Flat Earth Extremist drone. He knows exactly why he can take these photos, does extensive research of weather conditions, water temperatures, air humidity and temperatures to take photos during maximum refractive effects of the superior mirage. There it is, right here: https://beyondhorizons.eu/2016/08/03/pic-de-finestrelles-pic-gaspard-ecrins-443-km/. Note that Flat Earth Extremist Cult idiots invaded his blog and Marc didn't suffer fools lightly: https://image.ibb.co/hA07ao/Screenshot_from_2018_05_20_20_45_02.png. TRUTHERS. Not quite, huh?

Stealing and redefining clearly understood words to their opposite meaning, words like technology, level, flat, truth, density, perspective, sunset, sunrise, moonset, moonrise, dip, up, down, top, bottom and many others, warping them to mean things not disclosed, whose new definitions are neither announced or approved, they use these perversions to deceive. Deception is the very first tool they pick from their bag of tricks.

Using the generally understood and agreed-upon definition of the word "truth," What truth can be proven by deception? Only the fact that the deceivers are lying can be proven by their use of deception. In order to discover, in order to demonstrate, truth, the first and absolutely indispensable requirement is to BE truthful. Flat Earth Cultists have redefined the entire cosmos, and truth was the first casualty. They don't even know what it is.

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Timothy 53
Timothy 53
1 day ago (edited)
RockinRobbins13
Flat earth debunked 1,000,000%.

Just to put it in terms flat earth liars can understand.

5


Ken Logsdon
Ken Logsdon
1 day ago
RockinRobbins13 - "If the Flat Earth Cult is so "truthful" why did they steal the world record distance photograph of Marc Brett's Beyond Horizons Team"

That photograph actually proves global Earth:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfeeN90XiBQ&t=14s



Kevin Fisher
Kevin Fisher
1 day ago
Gleason was a believer in a flat earth model, so it is not really stealing to suit there purpose. Point of the map appeared to be (although have never seen confirmation of this) put forward in an attempt for others to accept and be used, and if it worked and people were able to navigate by it, would in theory partly prove his belief ..... except that did not happen and many navigators disregarded it straight away due to obviously would not work with known bearings. Further got proved that even distances did not work following that map either. As even Slocuм noticed and briefly stated.

2


Kevin Fisher
Kevin Fisher
1 day ago (edited)
But yea they indeed did steal photographers Nowicki work of Chicago pics and he was apparently not happy of such theft at all. I also find it appaling at many other claims, such as using Byrd whom was a believer in spherical earth having observed it himself and having observed over half of Antartica himself and bah can not recall but is someone else they like to make claims about. Degrading such people after they are dead and no longer to dispute such claims is horrible.

5


Ron A2540
Ron A2540
1 day ago
Kevin Fisher: Well said Kevin!

3


RockinRobbins13
RockinRobbins13
1 day ago
+Kevin "Gleason was a believer in a flat earth model" Then how to you explain this label, removed for deceptive reasons by the Flat Earth Cult? https://ibb.co/ewMXcp Text reads "On the projection of J. S. Christopher, Modern College, Blackheath, England. Scientifically and practically correct." If Gleason believed it was a flat earth map why did the Cultists who stole it remove Gleason's label. To further snap the trap, on the reverse side of the map is the text "Map of the globe stretched and flattened into a circular plane. Includes longitude and time calculator and diagrams showing June and December solstices. Border shows "sun-time in minutes."

So Gleason revealed the true purpose of the North Polar Equidistant Azimuthal projection: to calculate time. This was a calculator, not for navigation, not a literal depiction of the shape of the Earth, a specialized and useful projection of the sphere.

And if that is not true, why did the deceptive thieves (that's the Flat Earth Cult for those not following along, hehe) remove this descriptive material from their stolen map that they didn't even bother to understand? Why did they neglect to remove lines of longitude and latitude, which only exist on a sphere and are entirely inappropriate to a flat plane?

All that is because they are liars. Their purpose was to use somebody else's work to deceive you and I. They think we're stupid and won't find their deception and they don't have to make the slightest effort to hide their depravity. Surprise, cultists! The jig is up.

1


Kevin Fisher
Kevin Fisher
1 day ago
Tbh, I really do not know for sure but those are couple of good questions. I can merely speculate. To start off with, let me take you back. When I first read Slocuм (both his book as well as trip log) and first read about this brief mention, I had no clue what he was talking about as was not aware of Gleason map nor even flat earth movement. It was not until years later I found out about Gleason map. From my limited research, plus going off what I read before from Slocuм. Gleason was a believer in flat earth, but toned down his beliefs and was not so outspoken about his beliefs, yet did not hide them either. So I have no clue what general people at time heard or thought about it. Going by brief comments from Slocuм, he seemed to be aware of this so had his doubts it would work (distance wise as apparently could tell by simply looking at bearings those would never work), but did check it out just to see and quickly found out not even half away across atlantic it was way off. And that was in the better northern hemisphere drawn to scale part.

The map was indeed to calculate time, but also for navigation too. Navigation using such things as sextant readings, TIME was very important for calculating Longitude, which was always difficult as it really required very precise accurate times to compare with known celestial observation at that specific time. Which is why a chronometer and/or pocket watches were valuable to a sailor. And per Gleason that was allegedly a precise (or as near as possible) and accurate depiction of our world, for time estimates as well as distance scales of everything. So should have been able to be used to navigate by it.

So why the Lat and Long were shown? Again I can only speculate, but in order to navigate one needed to use those, this was after all just one way to allegedly (per I am sure Gleasons mind) prove earth was sphere. No navigator in their right mind would have used or accepted a map without it. Or maybe Gleason could not dispute that, but thought they had come up with a way to make it work while still being on a flat plane. Have no clue, but reality of situation is, only way to show proof it worked in reality was to have sailors actually use it and verify it got them where they wanted to go. Bahh really should go back and re-read Slocuм, but from what I recall he implied something about that but did not really go into specifics. But again this is all my own opinion based upon admittedly very vague distant allusions and only partial

allusions and only partial research later. I was only partially interested in it all, so PLEASE take all of this with grain of salt and research it yourself. I could be flat out wrong about all of it lol.

1


Kevin Fisher
Kevin Fisher
1 day ago
Oh part of my limited research of Gleason map ... you need to be able to read original language he spoke (italian ??) as allegedly there are clues in there which shows Gleason was believer of flat earth. I only took word for such language interpretation and did NOT actually confirm it myself. Was not really that interested in it lol.

1


RockinRobbins13
RockinRobbins13
1 day ago
Kevin If you aren't that interested and don't bother confirming the expected lies of the Flat Earth Cult high priests, please don't repeat their lies. When you do they become YOUR lies. I've researched. I've published the truth, that the Gleason map is a map developed as a projection of spherical earth for the limited purpose of serving as a solar time calculator.

You cannot navigate with a Gleason map. You cannot measure the sizes of land masses with the Gleason map. You can't plot flight plans with a Gleason map. You can't plot a course on a Gleason map. You can't measure mileages except from the center point of the North Polar Equidistant Azimuthal projection.

This type of projection was originally invented to measure mileage and direction from a central point, like a factory that needed to ship throughout the world. In that case you put your factory in the center of the map, with azimuthal lines (the longitude lines in the North Polar Equidistant Azimuthal map) showing all the directions from your factory and distance lines (corresponding to the latitude lines on the North Polar variant). Then the Equidistant Azimuthal projection (of spherical earth) centered on your factory or the airfield closest to your factory would show you the course and distance to any point on the globe.

The center point of an Equidistant Azimuthal projection is arbitrary. The Flat Earth Cultists picked the north pole, making it a North Polar Equidistant Azimuthal projection of spherical earth. They could as easily and correctly picked a South Polar Equidistant Azimuthal map, in which case the center point would have been the south pole and the single dimensionless point of the north pole would have been stretched to a 39,250 mile circle around the outside of the map. It was never intended to say that the outside of the map was anything but a single point. It was never intended to be interpreted as a representation of a hokey fake flat earth.

You could just as easily make this map the JFK International Airport Equidistant Azimuthal map. Then it can be used for the specific purpose of quickly finding the course and range to any point on earth from JFK. All other measurements from point to point not including JFK airport would be false, both mileages and courses.



Kevin Fisher
Kevin Fisher
9 hours ago
Slocuм was not Flat Earther LOL, now whether was mis-informed or what have no clue. But sorry mate I am not simply repeating lies from FE, but based upon other limited sources which had nothing to do with flat earthers at all. Gleason map per SLOcuм was not intended solely (doubtful as even mainly) as solar time calculator. Slocuм stated mainy sailors had been encouraged to use Gleason map in attempt to prove its accuracy. Now whether it was stolen by FE or not I have no clue, but it was supposedly an accurate depiction of earth that could be used to navigate by ... which ended up being false. It had been quickly dismissed and proven to not be accurate at all within first decade of it being printed. So if FE want to use this failed map for their module, it just reflects the idiocy of their claims.



Kevin Fisher
Kevin Fisher
9 hours ago
The debate over if it was intended to be FE module or not imho is unimportant. I was just giving mere speculations that IF it was intended to portray a FE module, why such things as Lat and Long were still included. I stressed they were simply my opinions and mere speculations based upon my admittedly limited research ... cause again that is really unimportant in my mind. What is important is that map is a big FAIL.



Kevin Fisher
Kevin Fisher
9 hours ago (edited)
Take note of this book published by A Gleason in Part 2 in which he questions whether earth is a globe and brings up reasons for why he thought disproved earth was a globe ... now whether that means his map was in fact supposed to represent a FE module or not I have no clue, but again point back too I really do not care that much as it simply does not work. https://archive.org/details/alex_gleason-is_the_bible_from_heaven__is_the_earth_a_globe.o



Kevin Fisher
Kevin Fisher
8 hours ago
Is the Bible from Heaven is the Earth a Globe? Gleason, 1893, pg. 351: "The map should hang in the house of every family in the land as well as every office or public place. The Publishing Company have ready a large wall map for school rooms and public places. The company will not only supply the United States, but the world, and very soon the Globe map and Mercator's projection will not be found."

As stated, it is kinda of hard to believe that Flat Earth stole this map, when Gleason talks about believing in a flat earth, after having disproved in his mind existance of a globe, in his own words. The point and purpose of this map was to provide kids with a version of a map that no longer reflected a globe as he previously talked lot about what disservice schools had done indoctrinating kids (sounds familiar from FE today). He does not claim that it could be used to navigate by in his book from what I read (but I only skimmed parts of it) but does imply his hopes of it replacing all other maps plus my prior knowledge from Slocuм that sailors were encouraged to use it in attempt to prove its accuracy, all points too he at least had hoped it could be used for such. Otherwise it would never completely replace all other maps. I am sure Gleason was aware of that, while his thoughts about earths plane might be questioned, he was no dumby from my brief readings from him. His stated reason (couple pages prior) about including Long was in indeed to perform quick Solar time calculations ... nothing further stated. However why include distances in that brief paragraph and more importantly conversion charts? One does not need to calculate distances if one knows there Lat / Long location to only perform Solar time. That is where I speculated my opinions and reasonings before ... plus Slocuм's claims. Maybe I am reading into it too much, maybe it was simply to calculate Sun's movement over time for example such as determing sunset ... but again that would be counter conducive to Gleason's hopes and overall dream of it replacing every other map.



RockinRobbins13
RockinRobbins13
4 hours ago
Kevin On a generic Equidistant Azimuthal map, you arbitrarily pick a center point. You could be working out flights from JFK, and you would make your Equidistant Azimuthal map with JFK at the center. Now, if you assign zero azimuth as North, then you can read the straight line course from JFK to any point on Earth accurately from the azimuth scale. And the concentric ranges arrayed as various equal distance rings from JFK allow you to accurately measure the distance from JFK to any point on the planet. And that's as far as it goes. I'm looking for an Equidistant Azimuthal map maker so I can make a variety of different Equidistant Azimuthal maps to show how they legitimately work.

But here's the kicker. Your JFK Central Equidistant Azimuthal projection of spherical earth only reads courses and distances correctly from one point on Earth, JFK! All other distances, bearings, courses, etc are ABSOLUTELY WRONG. The originators of the projection, two hundred years before Gleason, recognized this.

Here's a SOUTH Polar Equidistant Azimuthal projection of spherical Earth. https://ibb.co/cDV5Xp. Note that it does the same thing for the single point location of the North Pole that the North Polar Equidistant Azimuthal projection does for the south pole, smears a single dimensionless point into a circle of 12,500 mile radius, 78,500 miles in circuмference, just as the phoney "flat earth map" does to the south pole.

And you can make an Equidistant Projection centered on the Equator too. Here you can see the strange things THAT does to familiar outlines and relationships between different places: https://ibb.co/eWAQF9

All this is proof that Flat Earth Cultists didn't make the North Polar Equidistant Azimuthal map. They don't understand how the projection works. They don't understand where it's useful and where it makes things the Cultists expect to be able to do on a map impossible. And all this is powerful proof that the Flat Earth Cultists simply stole a map they didn't understand and proceeded to say really stupid things about it that were lies.



Kevin Fisher
Kevin Fisher
4 hours ago
Yes I get all that about EA maps ... but I think where I was not understanding what you are saying, is that FE simply stole this North Pole EA map back in the 1800's and attempted to make it work failing to understand all of that. In which yes I would concur. I thought you were trying to say Gleason was not flat earth believer or that current FE were stealing the Gleason map. From what I recall even Slocuм made brief reference to the fact that bearings would not work cause of all that (Slocuм didn't even bother checking bearings), but distances he was not certain of as done by AE Gleason map.

Title: Re: Was the Gleason Map Stolen by Uninformed Opportunists?
Post by: Neil Obstat on August 27, 2018, 11:54:53 PM

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Here are the referenced images near the end of the above post in context:
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But here's the kicker. Your JFK Central Equidistant Azimuthal projection of spherical earth only reads courses and distances correctly from one point on Earth, JFK! All other distances, bearings, courses, etc are ABSOLUTELY WRONG. The originators of the projection, two hundred years before Gleason, recognized this.

Here's a SOUTH Polar Equidistant Azimuthal projection of spherical Earth. https://ibb.co/cDV5Xp (https://ibb.co/cDV5Xp). 

(https://image.ibb.co/mMLTk9/Azimuthal_Map_southpole.gif)

Note that it does the same thing for the single point location of the North Pole that the North Polar Equidistant Azimuthal projection does for the south pole, smears a single dimensionless point into a circle of 12,500 mile radius, 78,500 miles in circuмference, just as the phoney "flat earth map" does to the south pole.

And you can make an Equidistant Projection centered on the Equator too. Here you can see the strange things THAT does to familiar outlines and relationships between different places: https://ibb.co/eWAQF9 (https://ibb.co/eWAQF9)

(https://image.ibb.co/bZhGNp/azimutal_equidistant_equator.jpg)

All this is proof that Flat Earth Cultists didn't make the North Polar Equidistant Azimuthal map. They don't understand how the projection works. They don't understand where it's useful and where it makes things the Cultists expect to be able to do on a map impossible. And all this is powerful proof that the Flat Earth Cultists simply stole a map they didn't understand and proceeded to say really stupid things about it that were lies.
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Note that the second one is what a recent flat-earthdom syndromer tried to pander off as his own discovery after years of research.