Author Topic: Very Compelling Flat Earth Video (Read 2708 times)

AlligatorDicax · « **Reply #30 on:** July 02, 2018, 04:32:34 PM »

Quote from: Smedley Butler on July 01, 2018, 08:43:42 PM

The reported distance from Johannesburg to Santiago is 5,000 nm across the southern ocean. That would be an easy flight. But they don't. Instead they fly 8,000 nm via Senegal.

You are aware, aren't you, that Dakar: the capital of Senegal, by being situated on the Cape Verde Peninsula (approx. 17½°W.), is home to the 2 westernmost international airports in Africa: historic DKR and the new DSS (IATA), each featuring 1 runway longer than 11,400 ft.?

Quote from: Smedley Butler on July 02, 2018, 08:40:00 AM

"Not enough demand" is a TOTAL lie. Airlines do everything to make money. Fuel costs MONEY. They are NOT going to fly an 8,000 nm "V" into the north, if they can fly a 5,000 nm STRAIGHT LINE in the south.

As usual, when Smedley is challenged by an entirely plausible refutation from a spherist, he just intensifies his rhetoric, apparently hoping that doing so will distract readers from noticing that all he's done is just restated his preconceived notions or flattist talking points, and continues his failure to offer any logical evidence--never mind any proof!

Dakar has the most sensible international airports for stop-overs from which to keep an airline's passengers flying northward, eastward, or southward within its own brand, to destinations much more popular, thus creating much higher demand, than either Johannesburg or Santiago (presumably the capital of Chile, near 71°W.). I'd be really shocked if connecting flights for other final destinations, e.g., Athens, Cairo, Istanbul, Lisbon, Madrid, Nairobi, Paris, Rome, didn't generate much greater demand for stop-overs in Dakar, thus much more profit for an airline, than the hypothetical nonstop transocean flight to Johannesburg (near 28°E.).

The latter flight to the bottom (ahem!) of Africa would bypass 45° of longitude in Africa that are home to other potentially profitable stop-overs. As perspective for us United-Statesians, 45° is the same span of longitude as Philly [★] to Lake Tahoe (75°W. to 120°W.)!

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Note ★: Wishing all United-Statesians a happy Real-Independence Day, i.e.: July 2: the day of the crucial vote approving independence, as attested by Patriot John Adams. As distinct from that day of mere paperwork--every delegate fancying himself an editor, arguing over T.J.'s wording of the Declaration--that our country somehow slipped into celebrating. [Haaades], yes, I digress!

AlligatorDicax · « **Reply #31 on:** July 02, 2018, 05:00:51 PM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat on July 02, 2018, 04:37:50 AM

Most southern hemisphere flights that are shown with stopovers in the northern hemisphere are doing that because the so-called flight is actually two flights, and the passengers going from Johannesburg to Santiago (or other similar cities) have to transfer to a different plane at the stopover. The reason is, there is not enough demand for flights from Johannesburg to Santiago (or similar cities) to make regular ~~direct~~ [×] [nonstop] flights practical. Airlines don't like to keep flights active when they can't sell all the seats and end up flying with too many empty seats.

This assertion of "not enough demand" is entirely sensible to readers who have heard the Southern Hemisphere repeatedly described as the planet's most impoverished (or "disadvantaged") hemisphere. What's down there? Australia & New Zealand brightening the S.W. Pacific, in contrast to Latin America and Subsaharan Africa. Welll, [Haaades], let the latter 2 continents add in their countries in the tropics (i.e., northward to the Tropic of Cancer) of their Northern Hemisphere, for all the good it'll do!

There's economic data that provides a basis for sensible assertions about demand for transoceanic air travel, especially flights whose initial departures or final destinations are in Africa. Map-style visualization of that data can be coldly unequivocal about the economic contrasts vs. the Northern Hemisphere (especially Anglophone N. America, W. Europe, Scandinavia, and E. Asia where countries developed opportunities with Western technology), and some contrasts are not the least bit subtle:

Gross Domestic Product (GDP) per capita at nominal values (where pale yellow is worst) [#]:

(640×296)

Human Development Index (where deep red is worst) [##]:

(640×281)

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Note [×]: Airlines deceptively use the term "direct" to indicate a flight that does include stop-overs, but passengers (and their baggage) for the ticketed destination remain on the same aircraft. Never mind the planar-math maxim that the "most direct distance between 2 points is a straight line"; that's the approximate route for which the airlines deceptively reserve the term "non-stop"[sic].

Note #: "[Gross Domestic Product (GDP)] per capita at nominal values. This is the value of all final goods and services produced within a nation in a given year, converted at market exchange rates to current U.S. dollars, divided by the average population for the same year." <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita>.

Note ##: "The Human Development Index (HDI) is a composite statistic (composite index) of life expectancy, education, and per capita income indicators, which are used to rank countries into four tiers of human development." <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index>

Ladislaus · « **Reply #32 on:** July 03, 2018, 06:21:18 PM »

Quote from: AlligatorDicax on July 02, 2018, 04:32:34 PM

You are aware, aren't you, that Dakar: the capital of Senegal, by being situated on the Cape Verde Peninsula (approx. 17½°W.), is home to the 2 westernmost international airports in Africa: historic DKR and the new DSS (IATA), each featuring 1 runway longer than 11,400 ft.?

So what? Presumably the airport that is their ultimate destination, which they could have reached directly in little over half the time, would also have a runway sufficient for them to land on.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #33 on:** July 03, 2018, 06:25:08 PM »

Neil, even if you you happen to be right, and the earth is a globe, you've still made a fool of yourself and discredited yourself ... being disqualified as someone who can be regarded as sincerely seeking the truth in good will. So you may have won the battle, but you will have lost the war. Why do you think that I accept nothing that you say at face value? Your childish taunting and ridicule of the other position has completely discredited you as a reliable source of objective information. If you said to me, "Good Morning", I'd have to go outside and investigate whether it may not just be night time.

happenby · « **Reply #34 on:** July 03, 2018, 07:09:51 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on July 03, 2018, 06:25:08 PM

Neil, even if you you happen to be right, and the earth is a globe, you've still made a fool of yourself and discredited yourself ... being disqualified as someone who can be regarded as sincerely seeking the truth in good will. So you may have won the battle, but you will have lost the war. Why do you think that I accept nothing that you say at face value? Your childish taunting and ridicule of the other position has completely discredited you as a reliable source of objective information. If you said to me, "Good Morning", I'd have to go outside and investigate whether it may not just be night time.

You're being generous. He can't even pretend to have won the battle.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #35 on:** July 04, 2018, 02:57:28 AM »

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One of the frames they cut out of the "very compelling" flat-earth video:
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Maybe Ladislaus can chime in and explain how using more powerful telephoto will bring the ship "back!"

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Resolution could be better, couldn't it?
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Okay, then how about this?
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Go directly to the source website and you can click on the image to magnify it!

Magnify the image and see if that helps bring the ship "back" like Ladislaus contends is "compelling."

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #36 on:** July 04, 2018, 03:15:25 AM »

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Timed out on edit above. Here is the source URL, which I copied from the first screenshot.
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http://media.mlive.com/news_impact/photo/denis-sullivan-tall-ship-on-the-horizonjpg-affa348ea7f1727c.jpg
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Let me guess:
Ladislaus says,

Oh, sure, when you click on the image the ship gets bigger and you can see more of it!
So the ship is coming "back" just like I said it would! You see? I was right!

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #37 on:** July 04, 2018, 03:28:50 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on July 03, 2018, 06:25:08 PM

discredited yourself ... being disqualified as someone who can be regarded as sincerely seeking the truth in good will.

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This topic has a lot in common with my Catholic Faith.
I don't go to Protestant "Bible studies" because they all pretend they're seeking the truth, presuming from the start that none of us all ready have it. But the Catholic doesn't presume that. The Catholic is assured that the infallible Church DOES have the truth.
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Well, I've all ready been to the other side of the mountain, and I have observed the curvature of the earth with my own eyes.
So I don't have to pretend we're all searching for the truth. I all ready have it. The earth is spheroid. I know this for a fact.
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I'm only trying to share the obvious for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear. St. Matthew xiii. 15 describes flat-earthers!
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Neil Obstat · « **Reply #38 on:** July 04, 2018, 04:02:42 AM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat on July 04, 2018, 02:57:28 AM

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One of the frames they cut out of the "very compelling" flat-earth video:
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Maybe Ladislaus can chime in and explain how using more powerful telephoto will bring the ship "back!"

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Resolution could be better, couldn't it?
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Okay, then how about this?
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.
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Go directly to the source website and you can click on the image to magnify it!
Magnify the image and see if that helps bring the ship "back" like Ladislaus contends is "compelling."

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The ship above is named the Denis Sullivan and the location is the Great Lakes, 2 years ago. These are replica sailing ships.
Here is a view of the same ship up close without the curvature of the earth getting in the way.
(Coincidentally the horizon in the distance (background) is at about the same line of sight against the D.Sullivan as the foreground horizon was in the photos above):
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https://www.mlive.com/news/bay-city/index.ssf/2016/02/three_tall_ships_make_bay_city.html#0

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Danielle McGrew | MLive.com File Photo
Denis Sullivan
Flag: USA
Homeport: Milwaukee, Wis.
Rig: Three-masted schooner
Sparred length: 137 feet
Length on deck: 98 feet Draft: 9 feet 6 inches
Beam: 23 feet 2 inches Rig height: 98 feet
Sail area: 4,597 square feet
Propulsion: Two 180 horsepower cuмmins diesel engines
Hull: Wood

Ladislaus · « **Reply #39 on:** July 04, 2018, 06:17:00 PM »

As I've mentioned before, the boat with missing bottom pictures are not particularly compelling. Lots of things can explain that. Where's some actual concrete proof? How about sensitive GPS equipment that could show buildings that are miles apart from one another having a greater distance between their tops than their bottoms? That would be compelling. Now, a group of Flat Earthers claim to have conducted the experience in cooperation with government surveyors in Brazil to demonstrate the opposite ... that the buildings are the same distance apart at the top and at the bottom, showing that they do not lean away from one another as expected on a globe earth. They allegedly conducted this experiment with equipment that's accurate to within a couple centimeters.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #40 on:** July 05, 2018, 02:23:10 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on July 04, 2018, 06:17:00 PM

As I've mentioned before, the boat with missing bottom pictures are not particularly compelling. Lots of things can explain that. Where's some actual concrete proof? How about sensitive GPS equipment that could show buildings that are miles apart from one another having a greater distance between their tops than their bottoms? That would be compelling. Now, a group of Flat Earthers claim to have conducted the experience in cooperation with government surveyors in Brazil to demonstrate the opposite ... that the buildings are the same distance apart at the top and at the bottom, showing that they do not lean away from one another as expected on a globe earth. They allegedly conducted this experiment with equipment that's accurate to within a couple centimeters.

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Do you even recognize how you are demonstrating the refusal of flat-earthers to focus on one topic and try to change topics to something else every time they face difficulty?
Flat-earthism cannot answer why tall ships arriving from great distance are first visible only at the top of their rigging, then the sails, then eventually the deck shows up, after sometimes many hours or even days of time.
Since flat-earthism cannot answer why this is ALWAYS the case with tall ships coming into view from far out at sea, they try to leap to another subject, just as you are doing here, Ladislaus.
You are denying a very commonly held concept that ships approach land with their tops being visible first, and going down to the hull little by little. You claim "Lots of things can explain that" but you have never provided any proof of any such explaining.
Instead, you contend denial but demand proof of what has long been established.
No, YOU have to provide the proof of YOUR claim!
Why don't you provide some evidence of being able to "zoom in" to a distant tall ship like the image I showed above of the Denis Sullivan with no deck visible, and make the deck show up with magnification? Too challenging for you?
You keep saying this can be done but you have never linked to any such a thing.
Saying it over and over doesn't make it true.
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Neil Obstat · « **Reply #41 on:** July 05, 2018, 02:46:34 AM »

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There is a website that provides a world-wide map showing the location of tall ships around the globe.
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At the present hour, one tall ship, the Picton Castle, is located due south of Baja California and due west of Lima, Peru.
It's in the South Pacific Ocean, west-southwest of Galapagos Islands and north of Tahiti, it seems, heading south.
They don't give ID on the many islands so I'm not sure of which are which but for New Zealand and Hawaii.
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This is what the Picton Castle looks like on the open sea. Take a good, close look and remember what you see:

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Go to source page for full screen high definition image!

There is a noticeable swell between the ship and the camera, more clearly seen in the high def image.

But even with that swell in the foreground, you can easily distinguish it from the horizon behind the ship.

Question: Would you have noticed that swell if I had not pointed it out?

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Take a good long look here and remember what you see:

View at sea from the end of the bowsprit!

The net below catches a falling sailor who would be run over by the ship.

And see in the right end of the crossarm above in the sails, a man is pulling a rope!

Question: would you have noticed the man if I had not mentioned him?

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View of the foredeck from the top of the foremast, bowsprit on the right end.

Notice how the bowsprit net prominently visible above is hardly seen at all in this view.

You can barely pick it out in the high def image when you know WHAT TO LOOK FOR!

Finally, go back to the top image.

Back to see that the bowsprit net is nearly lost from view in the first photo on the top of this post.

Question: when you first saw that beautiful ship did you say, "Oh look! There is a net under the bowsprit!?"

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I'm mentioning the swell in the top image and the bowsprit net in the first, second and third images because these are examples of things that nobody would notice with cursory or casual glancing at such photographs.
It takes a keen eye to extract subtle details from photos.
If you want to know what the truth is revealed in a photo you have to take a few minutes to look carefully with a critical eye.
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Neil Obstat · « **Reply #42 on:** July 05, 2018, 03:22:29 AM »

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PICTON CASTLE

Source

with Name prominently on the bow

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Hey, you can even see the bowsprit net!

The rigging below the bowsprit helps to keep it from bending upward from the pull those sail ropes give it.

No, those white barrels on the mizzen deck are not depth charges.

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There are wrinkles in the sails, and the sails hang fairly straight down, which means there is very little wind.

Consequently, if the ship is moving at all, it would be due to its 690 hp diesel engine, providing thrust at the propeller.

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This version (you have to CLICK ON the image in the new tab that opens) is huge, showing the Name of ship:

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When in the enlarged view, try to read what the one unfurled sail has written on it!

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Neil Obstat · « **Reply #43 on:** July 05, 2018, 03:50:10 AM »

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Apparently they're making use of free advertising space, where the sail says, "Barque Picton Castle - South Pacific - Spring Fall 2012 - Join the adventure - (?) on board - Galapagos, Pitcairn, Tuamotus, Cook Islands, Samoa, (??)." -- If someone could only see the largest letters, they might think this was a Rogers and Hammerstein movie set or whatever.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #44 on:** July 05, 2018, 04:20:05 AM »

Quote from: Smedley Butler on July 02, 2018, 08:40:00 AM

"Not enough demand" is a TOTAL lie.
Airlines do everything to make money. Fuel costs MONEY.
They are NOT going to fly an 8,000nm "V" into the north, if they can fly a 5,000nm STRAIGHT LINE in the south.
But they don't and they can't because it is not 5,000nm.
And this is not confined to one route:
There are NO NONSTOP trans-ocean flights in the southern hemisphere between ANY cities.

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Really? What about this one?

Author Topic: Very Compelling Flat Earth Video (Read 2708 times)

AlligatorDicax

S. Hemisphere Travel/Re: Very Compelling Flat Earth Video

AlligatorDicax

Hemisphere Contrasts/Re: Very Compelling Flat Earth Video

Ladislaus

Re: S. Hemisphere Travel/Re: Very Compelling Flat Earth Video

Ladislaus

Re: Very Compelling Flat Earth Video

happenby

Re: Very Compelling Flat Earth Video

Neil Obstat

Re: Very Compelling Flat Earth Video

Neil Obstat

Re: Very Compelling Flat Earth Video

Neil Obstat

Re: Very Compelling Flat Earth Video

Neil Obstat

Re: Very Compelling Flat Earth Video

Ladislaus

Re: Very Compelling Flat Earth Video

Neil Obstat

Re: Very Compelling Flat Earth Video

Neil Obstat

Re: Very Compelling Flat Earth Video

Neil Obstat

Re: Very Compelling Flat Earth Video

Neil Obstat

Re: Very Compelling Flat Earth Video

Neil Obstat

Re: Very Compelling Flat Earth Video