The heliocentric/geocentric conflict in history came about ONLY because the Bible reveals geocentrism. The Church acted only in its interest in stopping personal interpretation of the Scriptures.
Lucifer fooled Adam and Eve into believing they could be like gods, knowing everything. Adam and Eve repented and God forgave them. When Cain murdered Abel and was cast out his lot came under the influence of Lucifer's 'false-information' machine that formed all the false religions of the world.
By the sixteenth century man was ready to accept the sun-god once again by way of its Luciferian disguise Copernicanism.
Observations were interpreted as heliocentric proofs, and Isaac Newton's invented CAUSE for gravity was promulgated by Lucifer's false-information society the MASONS as a scientific fact. Human PRIDE in their own ability to KNOW ALL caught on, EVEN AMONG THE ELECT. Scriptural geocentrism was jettisoned and replaced by human reasoning heliocentrism. Today, even by posters on this Catholic forum, Scriptural geocentrism is laughed at in order that none chose revelation over human reason even though it has more evidence for it than heliocentrism has.
Out of nowhere came this flat-earth theory, claiming it too is revealed in Scripture. Yes they can quote some Fathers, some saints, and some philosophers who also held the Bible teaches a flat earth. Then, like the heliocentric/geocentric science, they can show reasons as to its credibility. However, their theory needs to deny so much it falls into the ridiculous. All space photos of a global earth are fakes according to their theory, the science of geodesy is useless, and astronomical distances of the earth, sun, moon and planets have to be made fit their mathematics and not according to 500 years of measuring and planes and ships may think they are moving around a global-earth when in fact they are going in flat-earth circles. No doubt they will continue to insist their science is credible and that is their position.
Fair enough, but for me theology is the queen of science and in the above debate I prefer the Church's truth to human reasoning that since Adam and Eve has been corrupted to reject the first dogma of the Catholic Church: "God can be known by the things that he made." Heliocentrism led the world to a natural Big-Bang that suits atheism and their concocted science. Geocentrism has no possible explanation other than it was created that way by God.
No doubt a flat-earth would also be evidence for God, if it was true. But St Augustine warned us not to make the Bible say something that it does not lest the evidence shows it to be wrong that in turn threatens the credibility of the Bible. So the Church made some rules. Only that which ALL OF THE FATHERS say the Bible reveals is infallible. All of the Fathers read the bible as revealing geocentrism. The Church of 1616 decreed this was dogma.
Flat-earthism has no UNANIMOUS agreement of all the Fathers. The Church has never decreed it as dogma, so theologically it has nothing to support it except the few who say it has. As yet I have never seen any such decrees..
So, what else is there to help us as Catholics to base what shape our earth is. Well personally I love the statue of the Child of Prague. ‘Devotion to this statue began in the year 1556 when Maria Manriquez de Lara brought the image of the infant Jesus, a family heirloom, to Czechoslovakia from Spain on the occasion of her marriage to Vratislav of Pernstyn. It is housed now in the church of Our Lady of Victory in Prague and is an object of veneration in many other countries.’ Note the globe of the earth held steady at rest in the hands of the child Jesus.
I recall the flat-earthers saying the child could be holding the flat earth facing out giving the impression of a globe. If I could I would post a picture of that statue here showing it is indeed a globe and nothing else.
Then the other day I was reading about the MIRACULOUS MEDAL.
I googled https://www.olrl.org/lives/laboure.shtml
In the above I found:
The Second Apparition
Four months passed until Our Lady returned to Rue du Bac. Here are Catherine's own words describing the apparition:
"On the 27th of November, 1830 ... while making my meditation in profound silence ... I seemed to hear on the right hand side of the sanctuary something like the rustling of a silk dress. Glancing in that direction, I perceived the Blessed Virgin standing near St. Joseph's picture. Her height was medium and Her countenance, indescribably beautiful. She was dressed in a robe the color of the dawn, high-necked, with plain sleeves. Her head was covered with a white veil, which floated over Her shoulders down to her feet. Her feet rested upon a globe, or rather one half of a globe, for that was all that could be seen. Her hands which were on a level with Her waist, held in an easy manner another globe, a figure of the world. Her eyes were raised to Heaven, and Her countenance beamed with light as She offered the globe to Our Lord.
"As I was busy contemplating Her, the Blessed Virgin fixed Her eyes upon me, and a voice said in the depths of my heart: ' This globe which you see represents the whole world, especially France, and each person in particular.'
For me then, this is heaven calling and telling, my theological proof that Flat-earthism is not true, and perhaps being used by Satan (NOT BY THE POSTERS I STATE) to undermine the progress being made in exposing SCIENTIFICALLY AND THEOLOGICALLY the Galileo case as one of the greatest scandals in history, suggesting the Church was wrong and Galileo was right when in fact ALL THE SCIENTIFIC AND THEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE proves the Bible was right and Lucifer's science was A LIE.
To undermine this breakthrough by insisting on a flat-earth geocentrism would seem to me to be a disaster.
The heliocentric/geocentric conflict in history came about ONLY because the Bible reveals geocentrism. The Church acted only in its interest in stopping personal interpretation of the Scriptures.
Lucifer fooled Adam and Eve into believing they could be like gods, knowing everything. Adam and Eve repented and God forgave them. When Cain murdered Abel and was cast out his lot came under the influence of Lucifer's 'false-information' machine that formed all the false religions of the world.
By the sixteenth century man was ready to accept the sun-god once again by way of its Luciferian disguise Copernicanism.
Observations were interpreted as heliocentric proofs, and Isaac Newton's invented CAUSE for gravity was promulgated by Lucifer's false-information society the MASONS as a scientific fact. Human PRIDE in their own ability to KNOW ALL caught on, EVEN AMONG THE ELECT. Scriptural geocentrism was jettisoned and replaced by human reasoning heliocentrism. Today, even by posters on this Catholic forum, Scriptural geocentrism is laughed at in order that none chose revelation over human reason even though it has more evidence for it than heliocentrism has.
Out of nowhere came this flat-earth theory, claiming it too is revealed in Scripture. Yes they can quote some Fathers, some saints, and some philosophers who also held the Bible teaches a flat earth. Then, like the heliocentric/geocentric science, they can show reasons as to its credibility. However, their theory needs to deny so much it falls into the ridiculous. All space photos of a global earth are fakes according to their theory, the science of geodesy is useless, and astronomical distances of the earth, sun, moon and planets have to be made fit their mathematics and not according to 500 years of measuring and planes and ships may think they are moving around a global-earth when in fact they are going in flat-earth circles. No doubt they will continue to insist their science is credible and that is their position.
Fair enough, but for me theology is the queen of science and in the above debate I prefer the Church's truth to human reasoning that since Adam and Eve has been corrupted to reject the first dogma of the Catholic Church: "God can be known by the things that he made." Heliocentrism led the world to a natural Big-Bang that suits atheism and their concocted science. Geocentrism has no possible explanation other than it was created that way by God.
No doubt a flat-earth would also be evidence for God, if it was true. But St Augustine warned us not to make the Bible say something that it does not lest the evidence shows it to be wrong that in turn threatens the credibility of the Bible. So the Church made some rules. Only that which ALL OF THE FATHERS say the Bible reveals is infallible. All of the Fathers read the bible as revealing geocentrism. The Church of 1616 decreed this was dogma.
Flat-earthism has no UNANIMOUS agreement of all the Fathers. The Church has never decreed it as dogma, so theologically it has nothing to support it except the few who say it has. As yet I have never seen any such decrees..
So, what else is there to help us as Catholics to base what shape our earth is. Well personally I love the statue of the Child of Prague. ‘Devotion to this statue began in the year 1556 when Maria Manriquez de Lara brought the image of the infant Jesus, a family heirloom, to Czechoslovakia from Spain on the occasion of her marriage to Vratislav of Pernstyn. It is housed now in the church of Our Lady of Victory in Prague and is an object of veneration in many other countries.’ Note the globe of the earth held steady at rest in the hands of the child Jesus.
I recall the flat-earthers saying the child could be holding the flat earth facing out giving the impression of a globe. If I could I would post a picture of that statue here showing it is indeed a globe and nothing else.
Then the other day I was reading about the MIRACULOUS MEDAL.
I googled https://www.olrl.org/lives/laboure.shtml
In the above I found:
The Second Apparition
Four months passed until Our Lady returned to Rue du Bac. Here are Catherine's own words describing the apparition:
"On the 27th of November, 1830 ... while making my meditation in profound silence ... I seemed to hear on the right hand side of the sanctuary something like the rustling of a silk dress. Glancing in that direction, I perceived the Blessed Virgin standing near St. Joseph's picture. Her height was medium and Her countenance, indescribably beautiful. She was dressed in a robe the color of the dawn, high-necked, with plain sleeves. Her head was covered with a white veil, which floated over Her shoulders down to her feet. Her feet rested upon a globe, or rather one half of a globe, for that was all that could be seen. Her hands which were on a level with Her waist, held in an easy manner another globe, a figure of the world. Her eyes were raised to Heaven, and Her countenance beamed with light as She offered the globe to Our Lord.
"As I was busy contemplating Her, the Blessed Virgin fixed Her eyes upon me, and a voice said in the depths of my heart: ' This globe which you see represents the whole world, especially France, and each person in particular.'
For me then, this is heaven calling and telling, my theological proof that Flat-earthism is not true, and perhaps being used by Satan (NOT BY THE POSTERS I STATE) to undermine the progress being made in exposing SCIENTIFICALLY AND THEOLOGICALLY the Galileo case as one of the greatest scandals in history, suggesting the Church was wrong and Galileo was right when in fact ALL THE SCIENTIFIC AND THEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE proves the Bible was right and Lucifer's science was A LIE.
To undermine this breakthrough by insisting on a flat-earth geocentrism would seem to me to be a disaster.
Our Lady was standing on a half-globe? The dome. Further evidence of flat earth. The world in its entirety is said by the fathers to be a globe, but they explain that the dome, flat earth in the middle, and the pit of hell form this entire universe, which is a globe. The people however, live on the flat plane in the middle.
The Doctrine of Geocentrism by Andrew White:
St Clement of Alexandria demonstrated that the altar in the Jєωιѕн Tabernacle was “a symbol of the earth placed in the middle of the universe:” nothing more was needed; the geocentric theory was fully adopted by the Church and universally held to agree with the letter and spirit of Scripture. Wrought into this foundation, and based upon it, there was developed in the middle ages, mainly out of fragments of Chaldean and other early theories preserved in the Hebrew Scriptures, a new sacred system of astronomy, which became one of the great treasures of the universal Church – the last word of revelation. Three great men mainly reared this structure. First was the unknown who gave to the world the treatises ascribed to Dionysius the Areopagite. It was unhesitatingly believed that these were the work of St Paul’s Athenian convert, and therefore virtually of St Paul himself. Though now known to be spurious [sic], they were then considered a treasure of inspiration, and an emperor of the East sent them to an emperor of the West as the most worthy of gifts. In the ninth century they were widely circulated in Western Europe, and became a fruitful source of thought especially on the whole celestial hierarchy. Thus the old ideas of astronomy were vastly developed, and the heavenly hosts were classed and named in accordance with indications scattered through the sacred Scriptures.
‘The next of these three great theologians was Peter Lombard, Professor at the University of Paris. About the middle of the twelfth century he gave forth his collection of Sentences, or statements by the Fathers, and this remained until the end of the Middle Ages the universal manual of theology. In it was especially developed the theological view of man’s relation to the universe. The author tells the world: “Just as man is made for the sake of God – that is, that he may serve Him, - so the universe is made for the sake of man, that is, that it may serve him; therefore is man placed at the middle point of the universe that he may both serve and be served.”
‘The great triad of thinkers culminated in St Thomas Aquinas – the sainted theologian, the glory of the mediaeval Church, the ‘Angelic Doctor,’ the most marvellous intellect [since] Aristotle; he to whom it was believed that an image of the crucified had spoken words praising his writings. Large of mind, strong, acute, yet just – even more than just – to his opponents, he gave forth, in the latter half of the thirteenth century, his Cyclopaedia of Theology, the Summa Theologica. In this St Thomas carried the sacred theory of the universe to its full development. With great power and clearness he brought the whole vast system, material and spiritual, into its relations to God and man.
‘Thus was the vast system developed by these three leaders of mediaeval thought; and now came the man who wrought it yet more deeply into European belief, the poet divinely inspired who made the system part of the world’s life. Pictured by Dante, the empyrean and the concentric heavens, paradise, purgatory, and hell, were seen by all; the God Triune, seated on his throne upon the circle of the heavens, as real as the Pope seated in the chair of St Peter; the seraphim, cherubim, and thrones, surrounding the Almighty, as real as the cardinals surrounding the Pope; the three great order of angels in heaven, as real as the three great orders, bishops, priests, and deacons, on earth; and the whole system of spheres, each revolving within the one above it, and all moving about the earth, subject to the primum mobile, as real as the feudal system of western Europe, subject to the Emperor.
‘Let us look into this vast creation – the highest achievement of theology – somewhat more closely. Its first feature shows a development out of earlier theological ideas. The earth is no longer a flat plain enclosed by four walls and solidly vaulted above, as theologians of previous centuries had believed it [?], under the inspiration of Cosmas [Indicopleustes] 550AD; it is no longer a mere flat disk, with sun, moon, and stars hung up to give it light, as the earlier cathedral sculptors had figured it; it has become a globe at the centre of the universe. Encompassing it are successive transparent spheres, rotated by angels about the earth, and each carrying one or more of the heavenly bodies with it: that nearest the earth carrying the moon; the next, Mercury; the next, Venus; the next, the sun; the next three, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn; the eighth carrying the fixed stars. The ninth was the primum mobile, and enclosing all was the tenth heaven, the Empyrean. This was immovable, a boundary between creation and the great outer void; and here, in a light which no one can enter, the Triune God sat enthroned, the ‘music of the spheres’ rising to Him as they moved. Thus was the old heathen doctrine of the spheres made Christian.
So much for the claim that the CHURCH held to a flat earth.
The Doctrine of Geocentrism by Andrew White:
St Clement of Alexandria demonstrated that the altar in the Jєωιѕн Tabernacle was “a symbol of the earth placed in the middle of the universe:” nothing more was needed; the geocentric theory was fully adopted by the Church and universally held to agree with the letter and spirit of Scripture. Wrought into this foundation, and based upon it, there was developed in the middle ages, mainly out of fragments of Chaldean and other early theories preserved in the Hebrew Scriptures, a new sacred system of astronomy, which became one of the great treasures of the universal Church – the last word of revelation. Three great men mainly reared this structure. First was the unknown who gave to the world the treatises ascribed to Dionysius the Areopagite. It was unhesitatingly believed that these were the work of St Paul’s Athenian convert, and therefore virtually of St Paul himself. Though now known to be spurious [sic], they were then considered a treasure of inspiration, and an emperor of the East sent them to an emperor of the West as the most worthy of gifts. In the ninth century they were widely circulated in Western Europe, and became a fruitful source of thought especially on the whole celestial hierarchy. Thus the old ideas of astronomy were vastly developed, and the heavenly hosts were classed and named in accordance with indications scattered through the sacred Scriptures.
‘The next of these three great theologians was Peter Lombard, Professor at the University of Paris. About the middle of the twelfth century he gave forth his collection of Sentences, or statements by the Fathers, and this remained until the end of the Middle Ages the universal manual of theology. In it was especially developed the theological view of man’s relation to the universe. The author tells the world: “Just as man is made for the sake of God – that is, that he may serve Him, - so the universe is made for the sake of man, that is, that it may serve him; therefore is man placed at the middle point of the universe that he may both serve and be served.”
‘The great triad of thinkers culminated in St Thomas Aquinas – the sainted theologian, the glory of the mediaeval Church, the ‘Angelic Doctor,’ the most marvellous intellect [since] Aristotle; he to whom it was believed that an image of the crucified had spoken words praising his writings. Large of mind, strong, acute, yet just – even more than just – to his opponents, he gave forth, in the latter half of the thirteenth century, his Cyclopaedia of Theology, the Summa Theologica. In this St Thomas carried the sacred theory of the universe to its full development. With great power and clearness he brought the whole vast system, material and spiritual, into its relations to God and man.
‘Thus was the vast system developed by these three leaders of mediaeval thought; and now came the man who wrought it yet more deeply into European belief, the poet divinely inspired who made the system part of the world’s life. Pictured by Dante, the empyrean and the concentric heavens, paradise, purgatory, and hell, were seen by all; the God Triune, seated on his throne upon the circle of the heavens, as real as the Pope seated in the chair of St Peter; the seraphim, cherubim, and thrones, surrounding the Almighty, as real as the cardinals surrounding the Pope; the three great order of angels in heaven, as real as the three great orders, bishops, priests, and deacons, on earth; and the whole system of spheres, each revolving within the one above it, and all moving about the earth, subject to the primum mobile, as real as the feudal system of western Europe, subject to the Emperor.
‘Let us look into this vast creation – the highest achievement of theology – somewhat more closely. Its first feature shows a development out of earlier theological ideas. The earth is no longer a flat plain enclosed by four walls and solidly vaulted above, as theologians of previous centuries had believed it [?], under the inspiration of Cosmas [Indicopleustes] 550AD; it is no longer a mere flat disk, with sun, moon, and stars hung up to give it light, as the earlier cathedral sculptors had figured it; it has become a globe at the centre of the universe. Encompassing it are successive transparent spheres, rotated by angels about the earth, and each carrying one or more of the heavenly bodies with it: that nearest the earth carrying the moon; the next, Mercury; the next, Venus; the next, the sun; the next three, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn; the eighth carrying the fixed stars. The ninth was the primum mobile, and enclosing all was the tenth heaven, the Empyrean. This was immovable, a boundary between creation and the great outer void; and here, in a light which no one can enter, the Triune God sat enthroned, the ‘music of the spheres’ rising to Him as they moved. Thus was the old heathen doctrine of the spheres made Christian.
So much for the claim that the CHURCH held to a flat earth.
Do you have a link for the above? I can't find anything online called, "The Doctrine of Geocentrism by Andrew White."
The Doctrine of Geocentrism by Andrew White:
St Clement of Alexandria demonstrated that the altar in the Jєωιѕн Tabernacle was “a symbol of the earth placed in the middle of the universe:” nothing more was needed; the geocentric theory was fully adopted by the Church and universally held to agree with the letter and spirit of Scripture. Wrought into this foundation, and based upon it, there was developed in the middle ages, mainly out of fragments of Chaldean and other early theories preserved in the Hebrew Scriptures, a new sacred system of astronomy, which became one of the great treasures of the universal Church – the last word of revelation. Three great men mainly reared this structure. First was the unknown who gave to the world the treatises ascribed to Dionysius the Areopagite. It was unhesitatingly believed that these were the work of St Paul’s Athenian convert, and therefore virtually of St Paul himself. Though now known to be spurious [sic], they were then considered a treasure of inspiration, and an emperor of the East sent them to an emperor of the West as the most worthy of gifts. In the ninth century they were widely circulated in Western Europe, and became a fruitful source of thought especially on the whole celestial hierarchy. Thus the old ideas of astronomy were vastly developed, and the heavenly hosts were classed and named in accordance with indications scattered through the sacred Scriptures.
‘The next of these three great theologians was Peter Lombard, Professor at the University of Paris. About the middle of the twelfth century he gave forth his collection of Sentences, or statements by the Fathers, and this remained until the end of the Middle Ages the universal manual of theology. In it was especially developed the theological view of man’s relation to the universe. The author tells the world: “Just as man is made for the sake of God – that is, that he may serve Him, - so the universe is made for the sake of man, that is, that it may serve him; therefore is man placed at the middle point of the universe that he may both serve and be served.”
‘The great triad of thinkers culminated in St Thomas Aquinas – the sainted theologian, the glory of the mediaeval Church, the ‘Angelic Doctor,’ the most marvellous intellect [since] Aristotle; he to whom it was believed that an image of the crucified had spoken words praising his writings. Large of mind, strong, acute, yet just – even more than just – to his opponents, he gave forth, in the latter half of the thirteenth century, his Cyclopaedia of Theology, the Summa Theologica. In this St Thomas carried the sacred theory of the universe to its full development. With great power and clearness he brought the whole vast system, material and spiritual, into its relations to God and man.
‘Thus was the vast system developed by these three leaders of mediaeval thought; and now came the man who wrought it yet more deeply into European belief, the poet divinely inspired who made the system part of the world’s life. Pictured by Dante, the empyrean and the concentric heavens, paradise, purgatory, and hell, were seen by all; the God Triune, seated on his throne upon the circle of the heavens, as real as the Pope seated in the chair of St Peter; the seraphim, cherubim, and thrones, surrounding the Almighty, as real as the cardinals surrounding the Pope; the three great order of angels in heaven, as real as the three great orders, bishops, priests, and deacons, on earth; and the whole system of spheres, each revolving within the one above it, and all moving about the earth, subject to the primum mobile, as real as the feudal system of western Europe, subject to the Emperor.
‘Let us look into this vast creation – the highest achievement of theology – somewhat more closely. Its first feature shows a development out of earlier theological ideas. The earth is no longer a flat plain enclosed by four walls and solidly vaulted above, as theologians of previous centuries had believed it [?], under the inspiration of Cosmas [Indicopleustes] 550AD; it is no longer a mere flat disk, with sun, moon, and stars hung up to give it light, as the earlier cathedral sculptors had figured it; it has become a globe at the centre of the universe. Encompassing it are successive transparent spheres, rotated by angels about the earth, and each carrying one or more of the heavenly bodies with it: that nearest the earth carrying the moon; the next, Mercury; the next, Venus; the next, the sun; the next three, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn; the eighth carrying the fixed stars. The ninth was the primum mobile, and enclosing all was the tenth heaven, the Empyrean. This was immovable, a boundary between creation and the great outer void; and here, in a light which no one can enter, the Triune God sat enthroned, the ‘music of the spheres’ rising to Him as they moved. Thus was the old heathen doctrine of the spheres made Christian.
So much for the claim that the CHURCH held to a flat earth
The text outlined in blue does not say what the person is posting here. Cosmas of Indiocopleustes INSISTS that the earth is flat and spends his entire book, Christian Topography proving it. Also, the fact that it says, " it has become a globe at the centre of the universe." is proof that it was once held otherwise but suddenly changed. Not only that, it doesn't say "why" it has become a globe.
When you think you have proof of something, read further, you've shown nothing.
The heliocentric/geocentric conflict in history came about ONLY because the Bible reveals geocentrism. The Church acted only in its interest in stopping personal interpretation of the Scriptures.
Lucifer fooled Adam and Eve into believing they could be like gods, knowing everything. Adam and Eve repented and God forgave them. When Cain murdered Abel and was cast out his lot came under the influence of Lucifer's 'false-information' machine that formed all the false religions of the world.
By the sixteenth century man was ready to accept the sun-god once again by way of its Luciferian disguise Copernicanism.
Observations were interpreted as heliocentric proofs, and Isaac Newton's invented CAUSE for gravity was promulgated by Lucifer's false-information society the MASONS as a scientific fact. Human PRIDE in their own ability to KNOW ALL caught on, EVEN AMONG THE ELECT. Scriptural geocentrism was jettisoned and replaced by human reasoning heliocentrism. Today, even by posters on this Catholic forum, Scriptural geocentrism is laughed at in order that none chose revelation over human reason even though it has more evidence for it than heliocentrism has.
Out of nowhere came this flat-earth theory, claiming it too is revealed in Scripture. Yes they can quote some Fathers, some saints, and some philosophers who also held the Bible teaches a flat earth. Then, like the heliocentric/geocentric science, they can show reasons as to its credibility. However, their theory needs to deny so much it falls into the ridiculous. All space photos of a global earth are fakes according to their theory, the science of geodesy is useless, and astronomical distances of the earth, sun, moon and planets have to be made fit their mathematics and not according to 500 years of measuring and planes and ships may think they are moving around a global-earth when in fact they are going in flat-earth circles. No doubt they will continue to insist their science is credible and that is their position.
Fair enough, but for me theology is the queen of science and in the above debate I prefer the Church's truth to human reasoning that since Adam and Eve has been corrupted to reject the first dogma of the Catholic Church: "God can be known by the things that he made." Heliocentrism led the world to a natural Big-Bang that suits atheism and their concocted science. Geocentrism has no possible explanation other than it was created that way by God.
No doubt a flat-earth would also be evidence for God, if it was true. But St Augustine warned us not to make the Bible say something that it does not lest the evidence shows it to be wrong that in turn threatens the credibility of the Bible. So the Church made some rules. Only that which ALL OF THE FATHERS say the Bible reveals is infallible. All of the Fathers read the bible as revealing geocentrism. The Church of 1616 decreed this was dogma.
Flat-earthism has no UNANIMOUS agreement of all the Fathers. The Church has never decreed it as dogma, so theologically it has nothing to support it except the few who say it has. As yet I have never seen any such decrees..
So, what else is there to help us as Catholics to base what shape our earth is. Well personally I love the statue of the Child of Prague. ‘Devotion to this statue began in the year 1556 when Maria Manriquez de Lara brought the image of the infant Jesus, a family heirloom, to Czechoslovakia from Spain on the occasion of her marriage to Vratislav of Pernstyn. It is housed now in the church of Our Lady of Victory in Prague and is an object of veneration in many other countries.’ Note the globe of the earth held steady at rest in the hands of the child Jesus.
I recall the flat-earthers saying the child could be holding the flat earth facing out giving the impression of a globe. If I could I would post a picture of that statue here showing it is indeed a globe and nothing else.
Then the other day I was reading about the MIRACULOUS MEDAL.
I googled https://www.olrl.org/lives/laboure.shtml
In the above I found:
The Second Apparition
Four months passed until Our Lady returned to Rue du Bac. Here are Catherine's own words describing the apparition:
"On the 27th of November, 1830 ... while making my meditation in profound silence ... I seemed to hear on the right hand side of the sanctuary something like the rustling of a silk dress. Glancing in that direction, I perceived the Blessed Virgin standing near St. Joseph's picture. Her height was medium and Her countenance, indescribably beautiful. She was dressed in a robe the color of the dawn, high-necked, with plain sleeves. Her head was covered with a white veil, which floated over Her shoulders down to her feet. Her feet rested upon a globe, or rather one half of a globe, for that was all that could be seen. Her hands which were on a level with Her waist, held in an easy manner another globe, a figure of the world. Her eyes were raised to Heaven, and Her countenance beamed with light as She offered the globe to Our Lord.
"As I was busy contemplating Her, the Blessed Virgin fixed Her eyes upon me, and a voice said in the depths of my heart: ' This globe which you see represents the whole world, especially France, and each person in particular.'
For me then, this is heaven calling and telling, my theological proof that Flat-earthism is not true, and perhaps being used by Satan (NOT BY THE POSTERS I STATE) to undermine the progress being made in exposing SCIENTIFICALLY AND THEOLOGICALLY the Galileo case as one of the greatest scandals in history, suggesting the Church was wrong and Galileo was right when in fact ALL THE SCIENTIFIC AND THEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE proves the Bible was right and Lucifer's science was A LIE.
To undermine this breakthrough by insisting on a flat-earth geocentrism would seem to me to be a disaster.
Catholics' have known for many centuries that the earth is flat; you are behind the times.
Mr. Cassini,
You throw around a lot of big words, but it is mostly hot air.
Geodesy, if it based on the assumption that the earth is a ball, cannot be approved by the Church, for the simple reason that science tells us that it is not a ball. Our senses cannot contradiction themselves.
I can see that you are finding it difficult to let go of Geo-centrism, probably because you have invested a lot in it. Prayer and humility will help with that.
We can't have long range photos because of perspective, not curvature. It is sufficient to show that the earth is not 46k km in circuмference, which our "short range" photos prove beyond a doubt. That should be enough for you to let go of this ball earth theory.
deutschcath, would you mind if we keep this thread confined to the 'theological' aspect of flatearthism? There are enough threads to post pictures and videos of opticla difficulties and illusions without throwing them into this thread.
Now let us read another little bit of 'hot air.'
It comes from; ‘The Mystical City of God’ or ‘The Divine History and Life of the Virgin Mother of God,’ the private revelations from heaven to Sister Mary of Jesus, better known as Mary of Agreda (1602-1665). The following insights, dictated to her, she said, by the Virgin Mary herself in 1637, a mere four years after Galileo’s trial wherein the formal heresy of a fixed sun was condemned by popes of the Holy Roman Catholic Church.
I post here one relevant paragraph.
‘Of the first day Moses says that “In the beginning God created heaven and earth.” And before creating intellectual and rational creatures, desiring also the order of executing these works to be most perfect, He created heaven for angels and men; and the earth as a place of pilgrimage for mortals. These places are so adapted to their end and so perfect that as David says of them, the heavens publish the glory of the Lord, the firmament and the earth announce the glory of the work of his hands (Ps.18, 2). The heavens in their beauty manifest His magnificence and glory, because in them is deposited the predestined reward of the just. And the earthly firmament announced that there would be creatures and man to inhabit the earth and that man should journey upon it to their Creator. Of the earth Moses says that it was void, which he does not say of the heavens, for God had created the angels at the instant indicated by the word of Moses: “God said: Let there be light, and light was made.” He speaks here not only of material light, but also of the intellectual or angelic lights…. God created the earth co-jointly with the heavens in order to call into existence hell in its centre; for, at the instant of its creation, there were left in the interior of that globe, spacious and wide cavities, suitable for hell, purgatory and limbo. And in hell was created at the same time material fire and other requisites, which now serve for the punishment of the damned.
Many Church Fathers and scripture take a lot of time describing creation explaining the heavens are vaulted and hell is a pit, that there are no antipodes, people living opposite of each other; and that Jerusalem is at the center of the world. Beyond that, no one is certain exactly the shape of the world. That up is up, is beyond question in the flat earth model. That up is up on a ball is a contradiction. Up is above, not "out there" or "down there" as it would have to be on a ball. Above on a ball is sometimes up, sometimes down, depending on where you are. Such an excellent foundation for relativity and relativism employed so easily these days one has to wonder how such deception has taken foothold in society, unless of course, the very world they believe in supports it. Catholic teachings are incompatible with a globe. The firmament is incompatible with a globe. There is no such thing as space. Rockets never went outside the firmament. How can oxygen starved engines operate in so-called space? How does a vacuum exist without being contained?
How did Christ rise on a globe? Which way did Christ rise that doesn't contradict itself? Which way is up on a globe? Science that even a child can understand proves beyond any reasonable doubt that water cannot stick to a ball, let alone curve across its surface when at rest.
What's Up you ask Happenby. Well Solange Hertz told us here:
http://www.ldolphin.org/geocentricity/Hertz.pdf (http://www.ldolphin.org/geocentricity/Hertz.pdf)
What's up is as relevant to the global earth as a flat earth. Take the global moon and planets for example. Why don't rocks or dust fall off the underside of it? The answer of course is GRAVITY.
Understanding Gravity: From the Latin gravitás, meaning heavy.
“For great is the power of God alone, and he is honoured by the humble. Seek not the things that are too high for thee, and search not into things above thy ability: but the things that God hath commanded thee, think on them always, and in many of his works be not curious. For it is not necessary for thee to see with thy eyes those things that are hid. In unnecessary matters be not over curious, and in many of his works thou shalt not be inquisitive. For many things are shewn to thee above the understanding of men. And the suspicion of them hath deceived man, and hath detained their minds in vanity.” (Ecclus 3:21-26).
It is gravity that allows all on global earth to have the earth under us and the sky above. Christ rose up into the sky into heaven as witnessed by some of the Apostles. That is why all things stay fixed to earth all around the globe. So, all up is heaven, and all down is Hell, the furthest place from heaven.