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Author Topic: Theological reasons against the flat-earth theory  (Read 5173 times)

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Offline Truth is Eternal

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Re: Theological reasons against the flat-earth theory
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2018, 12:14:31 PM »
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  • It is a fact yes, most men once thought the earth was flat. Eventually however, they discovered it was a globe.

    Cosmas of Indiocopleustes thought the earth was the shape of a tabernacle, not round but nevertheless with all six sides NOT FLAT. Flat is a pancake.

    I am still trying to understand how the Miraculous medal, described by Our Lady Herself, showing her standing on half a globe can be interpreted as her standing on a flat earth. If she stood on half a globe upside-down so as to be standing on the flat part, then yes, but because she chose to design the medal showing only half the earth, and she standing on the curved half earth, and that is how millions of Catholics have understood it since its inception, then that is the truth.

    Similarly the globe of the Child of Prague. To say, as you did or inferred that it represented a flat earth, just as you said the Miraculous medal represented a global earth, shows me that we really are dealing with people whose faith in a flat earth is beyond reason.

    Andrew White's description of the Doctrine of Geocentrism is probably the best summary of it I have ever read. I know he was an anti-Christ, but his description cannot be faulted.

    Dante held to a globe. The terrestrial globe, for Dante, is constituted by earth and water, and is surrounded by a sphere of air, which in turn is surrounded by a sphere of fire. All spheres.

    The three saints in White's geocentrism all understood the earth is a globe. Then there was St Robert Cardinal Bellarmine. Personally I find no fault is these saints and no amount of silly rejections can make them flat-earthers.
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    Offline happenby

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    Re: Theological reasons against the flat-earth theory
    « Reply #31 on: March 10, 2018, 01:35:09 PM »
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  • It is a fact yes, most men once thought the earth was flat. Eventually however, they discovered it was a globe.

    Cosmas of Indiocopleustes thought the earth was the shape of a tabernacle, not round but nevertheless with all six sides NOT FLAT. Flat is a pancake.

    I am still trying to understand how the Miraculous medal, described by Our Lady Herself, showing her standing on half a globe can be interpreted as her standing on a flat earth. If she stood on half a globe upside-down so as to be standing on the flat part, then yes, but because she chose to design the medal showing only half the earth, and she standing on the curved half earth, and that is how millions of Catholics have understood it since its inception, then that is the truth.

    Similarly the globe of the Child of Prague. To say, as you did or inferred that it represented a flat earth, just as you said the Miraculous medal represented a global earth, shows me that we really are dealing with people whose faith in a flat earth is beyond reason.

    Andrew White's description of the Doctrine of Geocentrism is probably the best summary of it I have ever read. I know he was an anti-Christ, but his description cannot be faulted.

    Dante held to a globe. The terrestrial globe, for Dante, is constituted by earth and water, and is surrounded by a sphere of air, which in turn is surrounded by a sphere of fire. All spheres.

    The three saints in White's geocentrism all understood the earth is a globe. Then there was St Robert Cardinal Bellarmine. Personally I find no fault is these saints and no amount of silly rejections can make them flat-earthers.
    They "discovered" it was a globe? Based on what?  Mathematics that even modern scientists say do not even work?  Pythagoras is known as the world's first Freemason and an occultist. Copernicus was also an occultist, and his math is all over the map.  Newton, Keplar, and Einstein were all anti-Catholics.   NASA philosophy is 100% pagan.  Why believe any of them discovered something worthy of belief? 
    Cosmas believed the earth to be flat in the sense that it wasn't a globe.  The fact that he describes it as a model of earth is already fascinating.  We know God works in types.  The ark of the covenant was a type of Mary for instance, layered in gold, and within it was placed a golden jar holding the manna, Aaron’s rod that budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant (cf. Heb 9:4).   They are all types of the New Covenant, as is Mary.  The fact that Moses was told to go out on the mount and make a duplicate of what he saw, the tabernacle shows that he reproduced a form of the earth, as Cosmas explains.  And why not?  Its a veritable Church.  It has pillars.  A dome.  A veil, that separates the holy of holies from the outer parts.  The shew bread.  The altar.  Can all of this exist and not be a sign for Catholics?  Is the tabernacle not a microcosm of what God showed Moses?  If Cosmas is just a liar, what do the globers say the globe represents in relation to Scripture? To the Old Testament? To the New?  To the liturgy?  To what God is telling us here?
    As for the Miraculous medal, Mary is standing on the vault of heaven, which is the dome (firmament) over earth.  Naturally, it would be arched under her feet as it is described in Scripture.  The firmament is described in Scripture as a vault, dome, sauna with a lofty roof, and as a tent. Notice that many many statues show Mary standing not on a globe, but a dome as it is only half of a globe.  Mary is above the dome and we walk around on the flat earth while the devils wallow in the pit of hell.  The middle earth, where we live, is naturally going to be overall a single playing field or surface (with hills and valleys of course).  When the Fathers spoke about the globe, they made it clear they were talking about the globe of creation, probably irregular (as earth is) and not unlike what Cosmas described, which he described to be more like a tabernacle.  In both instances, we have Catholic correlations to contemplate, a picture of the totality of creation.  In what way is the globe said to correlate with Scripture, the Church, the Mass, the tabernacle, or the liturgy?  
    I've heard Dante held to flat earth. But then, there is always more to discover.  Sometimes, I think people got mixed up with the description of the entire universe and people actually living on just the outside of a globe.  I know Fr. Pfeiffer made that mistake when he quoted saints he though were describing the globe earth, but who were unabashedly flat earth guys. 
    You may not buy any of this, but remember, it certainly isn't globalists asking questions or trying to figure anything out.  They already think they know it all.          


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Theological reasons against the flat-earth theory
    « Reply #32 on: March 14, 2018, 08:36:19 PM »
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  • I think we have all heard of 'Faith and reason' or 'Faith and science (scientia).' Our Catholic faith claims that because it is truth, it will comply with all known and unknown scientia.

    'Scientia' by the way is knowledge. It comprises knowledge acquired through the senses, knowledge acquired through the empirical or inductive method, knowledge acquired through philosophy, the search through reason alone, and finally through theology.
    Unless all four are compatible, or not contradicted in any of the four conditions, then the truth is not present.

    Flat-earthism does not comply with all four conditions of scientia.

    It denies the empirical science of geodesy, earth measurement on a large scale. This science, which can measure the curvature of the earth, has been practiced since the 17th century and fully accepted as such by both Church and state. Such is the size of the earth that this curvature can only be measured over long distances, thousands of miles. Flat earthers use this fact to argue there is no curvature detectable, [deceptively] using short distance photos for their purpose.

    Flat-earthism denies the evidence of the senses, what we see.

    Leaving apart the fact that every other body created by God is a globe of some sort, lending reason (philosophy) that our earth is also a globe, with gravity measured and changing according to the different positions on global earth, which would not be the case if the earth is flat.

    Anyway, my point on this thread is that to claim Catholic theology can be in agreement with such denials is to put Catholic theology in the same class as cօռspιʀαcιҽs or doubts, used to undermine the truth acquired through scientia. Global earth, on the other hand, is totally in keeping with all four conditions of scientia, no compromises or denials necessary in any of the four conditions, and that includes the globe of the Child of Prague and the Miraculous medal, both images that have been backed up with miracles of different kinds.
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    These are all good points, but a lot more good points are omitted.
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