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Author Topic: The Shape of the Earth Is Not Important to the Faith.  (Read 5681 times)

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Offline happenby

Re: The Shape of the Earth Is Not Important to the Faith.
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2018, 03:28:43 PM »
Quote from: Jaynek on June 06, 2018, 03:05:59 PM
Spherical earth is not in accord with a particular interpretation of Scripture (associated with the Antiochian school of exegesis) that was never adopted by the Church as a whole. You do not understand what PD is saying about literal interpretation.  

There has been over a thousand years in which the consensus and practice of the Church was based on the assumption that Scripture did not teach that the earth was flat.   This is why virtually all Catholics since 700 AD believed the earth is a sphere.

The flat earth movement of the last century or so was started by Protestants.  These are the people who might think that Scripture teaches flat earth. Catholics believe that Scripture is silent on the shape of the earth and this belief has existed since the Patristic period.
Spherical earth is not in accord with ANY interpretation of Scripture.  No one uses Scripture to teach earth is spherical.  Yet, many Saints and ancients both describe from experience and from Scripture that earth is flat.  
The flat earth "movement" wasn't started by Prots, but it was certainly maintained by many Prots.  Flat earth is ingrained in the hearts and minds of those who read Scripture and Catholics who appreciate the Saints and Scripture. 
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Offline Jaynek

Re: The Shape of the Earth Is Not Important to the Faith.
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2018, 04:12:52 PM »
Quote from: happenby on June 06, 2018, 03:28:43 PM
Spherical earth is not in accord with ANY interpretation of Scripture.  No one uses Scripture to teach earth is spherical.  Yet, many Saints and ancients both describe from experience and from Scripture that earth is flat.  

The flat earth "movement" wasn't started by Prots, but it was certainly maintained by many Prots.  Flat earth is ingrained in the hearts and minds of those who read Scripture and Catholics who appreciate the Saints and Scripture.
St. Augustine taught that Scripture is silent on the shape of the earth and this view was, in time, accepted by the Church and eventually incorporated into magisterial teaching.

Of course, nobody uses Scripture to teach that earth is spherical.  Since Scripture is silent on the shape of the earth, nobody ought to use it to teach that.  Those who seek to learn the shape of the earth through science rather than Scripture are being good Catholics.

The Saints who interpreted Scripture as saying that the earth was flat, for the most part, did so before St. Augustine taught that Scripture was silent on the subject. 

Catholics who appreciate that Scripture must be understood with the mind of the Church do not look for the shape of the earth in Scripture.  Flat earth is the domain of those who, like Protestants, understand Scripture according to their personal interpretation.
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Offline happenby

Re: The Shape of the Earth Is Not Important to the Faith.
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2018, 05:47:29 PM »
Quote from: Jaynek on June 06, 2018, 04:12:52 PM
St. Augustine taught that Scripture is silent on the shape of the earth and this view was, in time, accepted by the Church and eventually incorporated into magisterial teaching.

Of course, nobody uses Scripture to teach that earth is spherical.  Since Scripture is silent on the shape of the earth, nobody ought to use it to teach that.  Those who seek to learn the shape of the earth through science rather than Scripture are being good Catholics.

The Saints who interpreted Scripture as saying that the earth was flat, for the most part, did so before St. Augustine taught that Scripture was silent on the subject.  

Catholics who appreciate that Scripture must be understood with the mind of the Church do not look for the shape of the earth in Scripture.  Flat earth is the domain of those who, like Protestants, understand Scripture according to their personal interpretation.
St. Augustine is not the Church.  He disobeyed his own statement, so he either didn't mean it as you think, or it wasn't important to him.  But that doesn't mean it isn't important.
There were other Saints and Catholics who spoke about the shape of the earth after St. Augustine. 
It is impossible to miss the shape of the earth in Scripture as the Saints themselves explain.  Just because one guy didn't think was important, spoke about it anyway and others spoke about it, shows that your premise is devoid of value.  Making stuff up against the evidence available is very untoward. 
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Offline Jaynek

Re: The Shape of the Earth Is Not Important to the Faith.
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2018, 07:56:00 PM »
Quote from: happenby on June 06, 2018, 05:47:29 PM
St. Augustine is not the Church.  He disobeyed his own statement, so he either didn't mean it as you think, or it wasn't important to him.  But that doesn't mean it isn't important.
There were other Saints and Catholics who spoke about the shape of the earth after St. Augustine.  
It is impossible to miss the shape of the earth in Scripture as the Saints themselves explain.  Just because one guy didn't think was important, spoke about it anyway and others spoke about it, shows that your premise is devoid of value.  Making stuff up against the evidence available is very untoward.

St. Augustine's teaching was incorporated into a papal encyclical.  That is Church teaching, not just "one guy".

It may have taken some time for this teaching to be accepted throughout the Church, but you have never shown any Catholic believing in flat earth (based on Scripture or any other reason) after 700.  What Saints spoke about this after St. Augustine?  Where did he "disobey his own statement"?

The Church teaches that Scripture is silent on the shape of the earth. Saying that it is impossible to miss it is going against Church teaching.  (It is also contrary to the history of the Church, since Catholics have been missing seeing flat earth in Scripture since the middle ages.)

St. Basil also taught that Scripture is silent on the shape of the earth and that it is unimportant:

Quote
“Moses, is silent as to shapes; he has not said that the earth is a hundred and eighty thousand furlongs in circuмference; he has not measured into what extent of air its shadow projects itself whilst the sun revolves around it, nor stated how this shadow, casting itself upon the moon, produces eclipses. He has passed over in silence, as useless, all that is unimportant for us. Shall I then prefer foolish wisdom to the oracles of the Holy Spirit? Shall I not rather exalt Him who, not wishing to fill our minds with these vanities, has regulated all the economy of Scripture in view of the edification and the making perfect of our souls?” (Saint Basil the Great – Hexaemeron 9, HOMILY IX)

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Offline Neil Obstat

Re: The Shape of the Earth Is Not Important to the Faith.
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2018, 09:57:59 PM »
Quote
He has passed over in silence, as useless, all that is unimportant for us.
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Good thing then we're focusing on what's really important for us.
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Didn't you say you were going to give flat-earthism a break, Jaynek?  What happened?  
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Matthew's detox suggestion didn't work, eh?   ;D

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