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Traditional Catholic Faith => Fighting Errors in the Modern World => The Earth God Made - Flat Earth, Geocentrism => Topic started by: Neil Obstat on February 03, 2018, 11:00:09 PM

Title: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 03, 2018, 11:00:09 PM
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Here is a science teacher, Emily Morgan, author of Next Time You See the Moon, showing you how you can experience a moon phases demonstration in a dark room, using only a lamp, a styrofoam ball and a pencil:
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz01pTvuMa0
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I expected there to be a lot of photos of this recent eclipse, and maybe there were, but most of the videos posted are those that anticipated what was going to happen. I saw parts of the eclipse from L.A. but I couldn't stay up all night, so I missed most of it. But it was very impressive at about 4:00 am and at 5:30 am. I saw the blood moon (which is really a copper color, not red) and I saw a clearly curved shadow of the earth covering part of the moon.
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This video recorded a live stream of the January 31st blood supermoon eclipse:
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07o03HJ6VIQ
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It's very long (over 4 hours) -- the eclipse starts showing up at 1:00 hour (the first hour is when the penumbra was covering the moon but photography doesn't let you see that due to brightness factor).
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They show images from apparently 3 different locations so you'll see the moon orientated differently and it's all mixed up. Not a very smooth compilation, but at least it is chronological. Some videos do not give chronological accuracy at all. So this one is much better in that respect. You can skip ahead and miss a lot of the boring slow images. 
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Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 04, 2018, 08:42:31 PM
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Wednesday, February 7th, will be a day that gives everyone in the Americas a great opportunity to see first hand what the relationship is between the sun's distance from the earth and the moon's distance from the earth.
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Last month there were very good viewing days, and this will be yet another one.
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For those who want to know the truth, that is.
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The moon will reach its last quarter phase Wednesday morning at 7:55 in the Pacific time zone.
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That means it will be 10:55 am in New York and the Eastern time zone when the moon's phase reaches the last quarter.
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Central time will be 9:55 and Mountain will be 8:55.
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We know all this IN ADVANCE, whereas flat-earthers don't know anything about it in advance.
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This will be during broad daylight hours, all over Canada, the USA, Central America and South America.
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Why the whole western hemisphere?
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Because the moon's phases always show themselves the same all over the world, wherever the moon is visible.
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If the earth were "flat" that would not be the case.
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It also would not be the case if the moon were only a few thousand miles away from the earth.
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If the earth were "flat" you'd see a quarter moon in one place and a gibbous or crescent moon in another place.
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And if the moon were very close to the earth as flat-earthers claim, you'd see part of the dark side of the moon under it.
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But we never see the dark side underneath the moon, it's always on the right side or the left side, never on the bottom.
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Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 06, 2018, 03:41:24 PM
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Wednesday, February 7th, will be a day that gives everyone in the Americas a great opportunity to see first hand what the relationship is between the sun's distance from the earth and the moon's distance from the earth.
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Last month there were very good viewing days, and this will be yet another one.
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For those who want to know the truth, that is.
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The moon will reach its last quarter phase Wednesday morning at 7:55 in the Pacific time zone.
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That means it will be 10:55 am in New York and the Eastern time zone when the moon's phase reaches the last quarter.
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Central time will be 9:55 and Mountain will be 8:55.
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We know all this IN ADVANCE, whereas flat-earthers don't know anything about it in advance.
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This will be during broad daylight hours, all over Canada, the USA, Central America and South America.
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Why the whole western hemisphere?
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Because the moon's phases always show themselves the same all over the world, wherever the moon is visible.
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If the earth were "flat" that would not be the case.
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It also would not be the case if the moon were only a few thousand miles away from the earth.
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If the earth were "flat" you'd see a quarter moon in one place and a gibbous or crescent moon in another place.
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And if the moon were very close to the earth as flat-earthers claim, you'd see part of the dark side of the moon under it.
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But we never see the dark side underneath the moon, it's always on the right side or the left side, never on the bottom.
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Just one more day to go!
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Every month we are given two chances to test our perception for how far away from earth the sun is compared to the moon.
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We are given two quarter moons each month, a first quarter and a last quarter.
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Sometimes we get the last quarter early in the month and the first quarter later, and this is one of such times.
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But the convenience of viewing is not always so good as this.
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Tomorrow will be one of those days when it is really easy to see both the quarter moon and the sun in the sky at the same time.
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The only variable left is whether you will have clear skies so you can see the moon real well, and the sun.
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We can predict by the times shown what the position in the sky will be of the moon and the sun.
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The last quarter moon occurs at 7:55 am tomorrow morning, meaning the sun will have been up for one hour.
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The sun will be just coming up over low hills in the distance, or will be about 10 degrees above the horizon line.
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Since the moon is a quarter moon we know it will be close to a right angle from the sun.
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Therefore the moon will be at about astronomical 1:00 in the sky, just to the west of directly overhead.
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Of course, it will also be in the line of its orbit, which is currently 5 degrees north of the ecliptic.
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This will be as viewed from the Pacific time zone (UTC -8 ).
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If you're in the Mountain time zone, it will be later, 8:55, Central = 9:55, Eastern = 10:55 am. 
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So everyone in America gets a clear view of the moon's quarter and the sun, if you have clear skies tomorrow.
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Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Truth is Eternal on February 06, 2018, 03:57:42 PM
The horizon always appears perfectly flat 360 degrees around the observer regardless of altitude. All amateur balloon, rocket, plane and drone footage show a completely flat horizon over 20+ miles high. Only NASA and other government "space agencies" show curvature in their fake CGI photos/videos.

The horizon always rises to the eye level of the observer as altitude is gained, so you never have to look down to see it. If Earth were in fact a globe, no matter how large, as you ascended the horizon would stay fixed and the observer / camera would have to tilt looking down further and further to see it.

The natural physics of water is to find and maintain its level. If Earth were a giant sphere tilted, wobbling and hurdling through infinite space then truly flat, consistently level surfaces would not exist here. But since Earth is in fact an extended flat plane, this fundamental physical property of fluids finding and remaining level is consistent with experience and common sense.
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: RoughAshlar on February 06, 2018, 04:17:03 PM
I thought the natural physics of a liquid was to conform to its container (much like a cat), not simply find level.  
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: happenby on February 06, 2018, 06:30:12 PM
I thought the natural physics of a liquid was to conform to its container (much like a cat), not simply find level.  
It does both.  But, when have you seen the ocean surface curve?  The roundness of the hump between the distance of 100 miles would be 66 feet higher than either end, according to the math commensurate of a 25,000 mi ball.  Uh, no. 
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 08, 2018, 11:51:56 PM
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There is only one degree of curvature in every 70 miles of earth's surface - too small to notice normally.
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Anyway, looks like everyone missed another quarter moon opportunity.
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There will be more, two each month.
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Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 12, 2018, 12:04:26 AM
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The blood supermoon eclipse of January 31st was eagerly anticipated by amateur astronomers all over the country, as it turns out, for several years.
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There have been thousands of independent observers making meticulous records of this great event.
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Some of them are posting their work online but it seems others are trying to make it into more sophisticated products.
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The OP of this thread embeds two videos that are quite helpful in understanding what happened.
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Here are some web images that do a great job of summarizing what took place.
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And notice how very accurately it was expected compared to what actually happened -- they are identical.
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(https://s14-eu5.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nasa.gov%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fthumbnails%2Fimage%2Flunar_eclipse_01182018a.png&sp=7c24ac384eedd8340e69c65e0391d4ba)
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The moon is shown moving through the umbra of the earth's darkest shadow conical section.
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The times are shown when these key points would happen, and each point happened just as predicted.
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The following one shows a chart plotting the points of greatest visibility:
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(https://s17-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nasa.gov%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fthumbnails%2Fimage%2Fglobal_lunar_eclipse_01182018.png&sp=4b85fd9ff547dab974045baf85817592)
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So everyone all over the world would know in advance where they could go to see it if they wanted to see it.
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This one puts both together in one place:
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(https://s17-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.es-static.us%2Fupl%2F2017%2F01%2FLE2018-01-31T.gif&sp=058e33f50eab0568ea3ad974411ea5e1)
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 12, 2018, 11:00:12 PM
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Saturday, March 24th will be your next opportunity to measure the angle between the quarter moon and the sun.
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Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on March 01, 2018, 10:45:11 PM
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The full moon is visible right now.
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As it rises to its overhead position, high in the sky, the time will approach midnight. The full moon does this everywhere on earth no matter where you go. Whenever it's a full moon, the highest position it takes in the sky is when the sun is in the middle of its night time cycle.
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If you set up a length of pipe pointing at the moon so that the moon's light shines through the pipe, the moon's light will be shining through the pipe at the ground under your feet.
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That moonlight on the ground is pointing the way to the sun. The pipe also points at the sun.
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The sun is hidden by the earth and is on the opposite side of the earth, where the pipe is pointing.
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This is a very simple exercise you can do every time you see a full moon, and you can do it anywhere on earth.
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Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on March 01, 2018, 10:51:30 PM
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The OP video is a good one to see when you're thinking about where the sun is during a full moon at midnight.
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https://youtu.be/wz01pTvuMa0
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Incidentally this month, March, has another blue moon.
We just had a blue moon in January.
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on March 05, 2018, 05:09:22 PM
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Here is proof that flat-earthers realize when they've lost the arguments.
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: happenby on March 05, 2018, 06:06:52 PM
So without.  Nothing here proves earth is a sphere.
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on March 05, 2018, 06:34:54 PM
So without.  Nothing here proves earth is a sphere.
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The entire thread speaks for itself. I don't have to repeat it. Are you deaf or blind or just insolent? Loser.
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Your shrill whining only makes you look worse, if that were possible.
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on March 30, 2018, 01:21:17 AM
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This week is when the full moon meets Catholic liturgy, because there was a full moon when Our Lord suffered in the Garden of Olives.
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Catholics can step outside, or go to an olive garden, and have the full impression of what Our Lord saw that fateful night.
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Notice the full moon doesn't have any shadow underneath it, which it would have if the earth were "flat."
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If the sun were on the other side of a "flat" disk-earth, on the lowest part of the moon would appear a dark shadow where it's out of reach for sunlight, just as part of the moon appears in shadow in the crescent, quarter and gibbous phases.
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No, the full moon is always FULL -- not sometimes, not usually, ALWAYS.
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This is one of the MANY ways we can make first-hand observations that prove the earth is not "flat" but is rather spheroid.
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Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on March 30, 2018, 04:37:19 AM
We see the Moon all the time during the day.  So, I don't think the Moon is reflecting light from the Sun.  Anyone looking at a full moon can see, it is glowing.  We can see manufactured "reflectors" glowing on bicycles at night, but those "reflectors" are carefully manufactured arrays of tiny little mirrors that reflect the light off at deliberate angles.  The Moon, we are told, is covered with a thick layer of grey dust, similar looking to concrete dust.  I'll bet if you have a bag in your garage and you point a flashlight at it, it won't glow  ::)
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on March 31, 2018, 10:10:41 PM

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Oh, did I disturb your nice slumber? You've been gone for 4 days and suddenly you wake up in the middle of the night, to what? 
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Another difficult-to-refute observation, this time the full moon that's right in front of your face every month.
The full moon you can't deny so you pretend it's not the moon, or that it's not the sun shining on it, or the moon makes its own light, or there isn't any full moon, it's just our imagination.
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Don't you ever get tired of trying to ignore the evidence God has put right there before your eyes?
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You'd have made the Skeptics of ancient Greece blush.
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We see the Moon all the time during the day.  
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No, we don't. Half the time the moon is not visible during the daytime at all. What planet do you come from?
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So, I don't think the Moon is reflecting light from the Sun.  
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So, you're wrong. Next?
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Anyone looking at a full moon can see, it is glowing.  We can see manufactured "reflectors" glowing on bicycles at night, but those "reflectors" are carefully manufactured arrays of tiny little mirrors that reflect the light off at deliberate angles.  The Moon, we are told, is covered with a thick layer of grey dust, similar looking to concrete dust.  I'll bet if you have a bag in your garage and you point a flashlight at it, it won't glow  
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Dream on, funny guy.   :jester:
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While you go down in flames! ...................... You can't make this stuff up.  

Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on April 01, 2018, 05:16:21 AM
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Oh, did I disturb your nice slumber? You've been gone for 4 days and suddenly you wake up in the middle of the night, to what?
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Another difficult-to-refute observation, this time the full moon that's right in front of your face every month.
The full moon you can't deny so you pretend it's not the moon, or that it's not the sun shining on it, or the moon makes its own light, or there isn't any full moon, it's just our imagination.
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Don't you ever get tired of trying to ignore the evidence God has put right there before your eyes?
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You'd have made the Skeptics of ancient Greece blush.
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No, we don't. Half the time the moon is not visible during the daytime at all. What planet do you come from?
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So, you're wrong. Next?
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Dream on, funny guy.   :jester:
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While you go down in flames! ...................... You can't make this stuff up.  
You seem to struggle with the literary use of "hyperbole."  I'd suggest you look it up or perhaps go back to grade school!    :jester:  O.k., I'll dumb this down for you Neil:  "all the time" is hyperbole for "often."  

Hyperbole | Define Hyperbole at Dictionary.com
www.dictionary.com/browse/hyperbole
obvious and intentional exaggeration. 2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=define+hyperbole&oq=define+hyperbole&aqs=chrome..69i57.3023j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on April 01, 2018, 03:54:26 PM
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When I say "all the time" I mean exactly that, all the time. As in now, later, and at all times in between.
And when I say "always" I don't mean something else.
The full moon is always full. As in "at all times."
That's why it's called a full moon, because it's full.
Fortunately for those who need a second chance, the moon is still very close to full tonight.
So you can get almost the same view you could have had a few days ago, when I wrote this:
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This week is when the full moon meets Catholic liturgy, because there was a full moon when Our Lord suffered in the Garden of Olives.
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Catholics can step outside, or go to an olive garden, and have the full impression of what Our Lord saw that fateful night.
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Notice the full moon doesn't have any shadow underneath it, which it would have if the earth were "flat."
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If the sun were on the other side of a "flat" disk-earth, on the lowest part of the moon would appear a dark shadow where it's out of reach for sunlight, just as part of the moon appears in shadow in the crescent, quarter and gibbous phases.
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No, the full moon is always FULL -- not sometimes, not usuallyALWAYS.
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This is one of the MANY ways we can make first-hand observations that prove the earth is not "flat" but is rather spheroid.
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Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on April 03, 2018, 05:46:30 PM
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When I say "all the time" I mean exactly that, all the time. As in now, later, and at all times in between.
And when I say "always" I don't mean something else.
The full moon is always full. As in "at all times."
That's why it's called a full moon, because it's full.
Fortunately for those who need a second chance, the moon is still very close to full tonight.
So you can get almost the same view you could have had a few days ago, when I wrote this:
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This week is when the full moon meets Catholic liturgy, because there was a full moon when Our Lord suffered in the Garden of Olives.
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Catholics can step outside, or go to an olive garden, and have the full impression of what Our Lord saw that fateful night.
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Notice the full moon doesn't have any shadow underneath it, which it would have if the earth were "flat."
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If the sun were on the other side of a "flat" disk-earth, on the lowest part of the moon would appear a dark shadow where it's out of reach for sunlight, just as part of the moon appears in shadow in the crescent, quarter and gibbous phases.
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No, the full moon is always FULL -- not sometimes, not usually, ALWAYS.
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This is one of the MANY ways we can make first-hand observations that prove the earth is not "flat" but is rather spheroid.
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Ha Ha, you are funny!   :laugh1:
Seriously though, the Globe Earth "Model" seems kind of strange when it comes to Full Moons.  
(http://www.hko.gov.hk/press/D4/pre20100908e.jpg)
"Positions of the sun, the earth and the moon at full moon"

http://www.hko.gov.hk/press/D4/pre20100908e.htm
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on April 04, 2018, 12:42:34 AM
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The only thing flat-earthers have to fear is sphere itself.          :incense:              
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Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on April 05, 2018, 03:20:31 AM
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Here is a science teacher, Emily Morgan, author of Next Time You See the Moon, showing you how you can experience a moon phases demonstration in a dark room, using only a lamp, a styrofoam ball and a pencil:
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz01pTvuMa0


What I don't get is how can the Moon be fully ulliminated every month, but then be completely blocked by The Earth during an eclipse?  I know the Moon is supposed to orbit at a 5 degree angle (preventing the Earth from blocking The Sun), but then somehow knows to switch its orbit occassionally, so as to be totally blocked by the Earth!  Sorry, but I'm just a bit skeptical  ::)  How is this supposed to work?  With all these round earth'ers out there, somebody should be able to explain this.  
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on April 05, 2018, 04:22:56 AM
What I don't get is how can the Moon be fully ulliminated every month, but then be completely blocked by The Earth during an eclipse?  I know the Moon is supposed to orbit at a 5 degree angle (preventing the Earth from blocking The Sun), but then somehow knows to switch its orbit occassionally, so as to be totally blocked by the Earth!  Sorry, but I'm just a bit skeptical  ::)  How is this supposed to work?  With all these round earth'ers out there, somebody should be able to explain this.  
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You're problem is you think the earth is "flat" and that's why you have so much difficulty understanding the phases of the moon.
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The moon is fully illuminated during the full moon phase because it is 240,000 miles away from earth and the earth's shadow therefore has a lot of room to MISS the moon in most cases.
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The moon doesn't "switch" its orbit nor does the moon "know" anything.
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The nice lady in the video is holding a white sphere on a pencil but that's entirely NOT TO SCALE.
If it were to scale, she would be 200 feet further from the lamp and the moon would be the size of a grain of sand.
And her eyeball would be the size of a BB if it were to scale for what size the earth is.
But that wouldn't make any sense in the video.
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The orbit of the moon is very predictable. That's why lunar and solar eclipses can be very precisely forecast many years in advance.
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BTW no flat-earthers can predict solar or lunar eclipses. Have you ever wondered about THAT?
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Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on April 05, 2018, 05:13:49 AM
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You're problem is you think the earth is "flat" and that's why you have so much difficulty understanding the phases of the moon.
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The moon is fully illuminated during the full moon phase because it is 240,000 miles away from earth and the earth's shadow therefore has a lot of room to MISS the moon in most cases.
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The moon doesn't "switch" its orbit nor does the moon "know" anything.
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The nice lady in the video is holding a white sphere on a pencil but that's entirely NOT TO SCALE.
If it were to scale, she would be 200 feet further from the lamp and the moon would be the size of a grain of sand.
And her eyeball would be the size of a BB if it were to scale for what size the earth is.
But that wouldn't make any sense in the video.
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The orbit of the moon is very predictable. That's why lunar and solar eclipses can be very precisely forecast many years in advance.
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BTW no flat-earthers can predict solar or lunar eclipses. Have you ever wondered about THAT?
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No, I don't think you understand "The Round Earth Model" correctly.  The Moon's orbit is supposed to be at a tilt of 5 degrees, which allows the sunlight to hit the Moon.  However, during an eclipse, as I understand it, the orbit is supposed to be at 0 degrees.  

If the Moon is smaller, than the Earth and relatively close to the Earth, then it doesn't matter how much bigger the Sun is than the Earth.  
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on April 05, 2018, 05:17:08 AM
(http://www.hko.gov.hk/press/D4/pre20100908e.jpg)

See, in the rough diagram here from Hong Kong observatory, not drawn to scale, but it still illustrates the point, sunlight must travel past or somehow through the Earth to make the Moon appear "full."  Hence, the 5 degree tilt of the Moon's orbit, which changes to 0 degrees in an eclipse, in the round earth model.  So, somehow it has to change its orbit, which the claim is it does, with clock like precision, hence it is predictable.  Of course, the Chinese with their flat earth model didn't have any problem predicting eclipses either.  Still, eclipses seem pretty tough for pretty much everyone to explain!   :laugh1:
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on April 05, 2018, 06:08:59 AM
"...a lunar eclipse arises from... a body semi-transparent and well-defined passing before the moon; or between the moon's surface and the observer on the surface of the earth.

That many such bodies exist in the firmament is almost a matter of certainty; and that one such as that which

p. 149

eclipses the moon exists at no great distance above the earth's surface, is a matter admitted by many of the leading astronomers of the day. In the report of the council of the Royal Astronomical Society, for June 1850, it is said:--

"We may well doubt whether that body which we call the moon is the only satellite of the earth."

In the report of the Academy of Sciences for October 12th, 1846, and again for August, 1847, the director of one of the French observatories gives a number of observations and calculations which have led him to conclude that,--

"There is at least one non-luminous body of considerable magnitude which is attached as a satellite to this earth."

Sir John Herschel admits that:--

"Invisible moons exist in the firmament." 1

Sir John Lubbock is of the same opinion, and gives rules and formulæ for calculating their distances, periods, &c. 2

At the meeting of the British Association for the Advancement of Science, in 1850, the president stated that,---

"The opinion was gaining ground, that many of the fixed stars were accompanied by companions emitting no light."

"The 'changeable stars' which disappear for a time, or are eclipsed, have been supposed to have very large opaque bodies revolving about or near to them, so as to obscure them when they come in conjunction with us." 3

p. 150

"Bessel, the greatest astronomer of our time, in a letter to myself, in July 1844, said, 'I do indeed continue in the belief that Procyon and Sirius are both true double stars, each consisting of one visible, and one invisible star.' . . A laborious inquiry just completed by Peters at Königsberg; and a similar one by Schubert, the calculator employed on the North American Nautical Almanack, support Bessel." 1

"The belief in the existence of non-luminous stars was prevalent in Grecian antiquity, and especially in the early times of Christianity. It was assumed that 'among the fiery stars which are nourished by vapours, there move other earthy bodies, which remain invisible to us!' Origenes." 2

"Stars that are invisible and consequently have no name move in space together with those that are visible." Diogenes of Appollonica. 3

Lambert in his cosmological letters admits the existence of "dark cosmical bodies of great size." 4

We have now seen that the existence of dark bodies revolving about the luminous objects in the firmament has been admitted by practical observers from the earliest ages; and that in our own day such a mass of evidence has accuмulated on the subject, that astronomers are compelled to admit that not only dark bodies which occasionally obscure the luminous stars when in conjunction, but that cosmical bodies of large size exist, and that "one at least is attached as a satellite to this earth." It is this dark or "non-luminous satellite," which when in conjunction,

p. 151

or in a line with the moon and an observer on earth, IS THE IMMEDIATE CAUSE OF A LUNAR ECLIPSE."

http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za29.htm
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on April 05, 2018, 07:31:52 PM
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No, it is YOU who don't understand the (you say "Round") spheroid earth model correctly.
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The only ones using "The Round Earth Model" (in quotes, no less) are ignorant flat-earthers, such as YOU.
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Nobody is obliged to conform to your erroneous fantasy.
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You are the one in error, and you are obliged to pay attention and learn.
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(http://www.hko.gov.hk/press/D4/pre20100908e.jpg)

No, I don't think you understand "The Round Earth Model" correctly.  The Moon's orbit is supposed to be at a tilt of 5 degrees, which allows the sunlight to hit the Moon.  However, during an eclipse, as I understand it, the orbit is supposed to be at 0 degrees.  

If the Moon is smaller, than the Earth and relatively close to the Earth, then it doesn't matter how much bigger the Sun is than the Earth.

See, in the rough diagram here from Hong Kong observatory, not drawn to scale, but it still illustrates the point, sunlight must travel past or somehow through the Earth to make the Moon appear "full."  Hence, the 5 degree tilt of the Moon's orbit, which changes to 0 degrees in an eclipse, in the round earth model.  So, somehow it has to change its orbit, which the claim is it does, with clock like precision, hence it is predictable.  Of course, the Chinese with their flat earth model didn't have any problem predicting eclipses either.  Still, eclipses seem pretty tough for pretty much everyone to explain!   :laugh1:
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How many ways can you go wrong? I guess the estimate would be "infinite." You make one mistake after another.
Then you accuse me of not understanding your misunderstanding. Why should I try to accept your incorrect axioms and presuppositions?
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You are wrong from the start.
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You can't represent the orbit of the moon on a 2-dimensional diagram and expect to see how eclipses occur.
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The moon's orbit doesn't change in order for eclipses to occur. It's the same orbit, under different time frames, when the path of the moon coincides with the shadow of the earth. The path of the moon varies every day, which you can see if you bother to look at the moon every day. Its elevation above the horizon is different day by day. But its orbit is consistent -- that is, consistent enough to explain why eclipses occur as they do. There are minuscule changes in the moon's orbit but those are not enough to make an eclipse happen or make one not happen that was going to before.
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"If the Moon is smaller, [sic] than the Earth and relatively close to the Earth, then it doesn't matter how much bigger the Sun is than the Earth."
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Your comma after "smaller" is inappropriate. Another example, from which there are so many to choose, of your being wrong.
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If the moon is smaller than the earth and relatively close to the earth (compared to its distance to the sun) then it absolutely DOES matter how much bigger the sun is than the earth. If the sun were the same size as the earth but at the same distance it now is, we would be getting solar AND lunar eclipses a LOT more often and they would last A LOT LONGER.
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Sunlight doesn't travel "through" the earth to make the moon appear "full." The darkest part of the earth's shadow (umbra) misses the moon most of the time, and only in rare instances does the umbra fall on the moon. The size of the earth's umbra hitting the moon is smaller than the earth, and it is a consequence of the relative diameters of the earth and sun and the relative distances between sun, earth and moon. Similarly, during a solar eclipse, the size of the moon's umbra hitting the earth (30 miles dia.) is much smaller than the moon (about 2,160 miles diameter).
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(https://futurism.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/382239_422413427845072_684362973_n.jpg)
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In this comparison of the size of the United States to a full moon, recall the size of the umbra crossing the States this past August.
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(https://s16-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcreationcenter.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F07%2FSolar-Eclipse-in-Leo.jpg&sp=d35492f4d5d330734530a5e7eb530731)
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Not to scale:
(https://s16-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.indianexpress.com%2F2017%2F07%2Fsolar-eclipse-7591.jpg&sp=7697df6c2e6d516b7cb13dbceb9f6d28)
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(https://s16-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Feclipse2017.nasa.gov%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2FeclipsesHOW.png&sp=dbb9bc0a34db3e2ba04c61a92f974bac)
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However, the penumbra of the earth's shadow falls much more often on the moon even while that isn't something that is obvious from earth, any more than the penumbra of the moon's shadow falling on earth is obvious for someone outside the path of totality. If you have paid attention to a solar eclipse when you are located where the eclipse is PARTIAL (in the penumbra), you might have noticed that the appearance of the sun's daylight doesn't change all that much. When you find yourself in the outer limits of the penumbra, unless you use some projection device or optical filter device, you wouldn't notice there is an eclipse going on at all, unless you knew how to observe the shape of the shadows under trees or shining through other small apertures.
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I know this is the case because I have gone out in public with projection devices and have found that most people at large are not only unaware of the eclipse in progress, they don't care that it's happening when I have told them about it.
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Therefore the indifference of flat-earthers to the reality of our world is not unusual. Most people don't care, nor do they want to learn how to care when someone offers them the experience.
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Tell me, for example, what were you doing this past August 21st during the total solar eclipse, the Great American Eclipse of the Sun?
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Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on April 05, 2018, 08:43:40 PM
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In the past, flat-earthers have complained that the diagrams offered for their edification are of no use because they are "not to scale," and that this not being to scale is a matter of great anxiety for them. They presuppose that someone is trying to deceive them by using untruthful diagrams or whatever.
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The fact of the matter is, a diagram that is to scale showing these things is a diagram that cannot be seen on you computer screen, because the images of the sun and planets and especially the moon are too small to be noticeable, that is, they would be smaller than one pixel. Well, the sun might be two or three pixels. But it would nonetheless be something that doesn't show up obviously.
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Here is a good attempt to depict the difficulty. The picture shows three scales. 
The whole point is for these bodies to be VISIBLE to the viewer, that means YOU.
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The scale on top (first panel) shows a large blue earth and a smaller yellow moon at its relative distance and diameter, to scale.
They're blue and yellow, not green, therefore they are to scale, as the header describes.
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That's it for diameters being to scale! 
The second panel shows the sun's diameter to scale but not the planets. 
The third panel has only DISTANCE to scale. Even the sun is a green dot.
The reason for that is, if the diameters were to scale (in the second and third panels) the planets and moons would not be visible because they would be too small.
If they were to show the sun to scale with the top panel, the sun would be the size of a basketball, unable to fit on the page.
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The scale in the middle (second panel) shows the sun to scale and then enlarged dots for the planets Mercury, Venus and Earth, all at their relative distances to scale from the sun. The planets are enlarged because if their diameters were to scale also, they would be too small, smaller than one pixel, and therefore would not be visible in this format. Notice the two moons of Mars are not visible, as they are much too small. Also, they have "Moon" labeled near Earth but it's too small to be obvious. I tried greatly enlarging this from the source page image, and found there is a sort of shadowy green blur on the right side of Earth which is likely their moon image. In other words, even when they attempt to depict the Moon with a green dot it's not really visible. But again, remember the scale distance and diameter of Earth--Moon is depicted TO SCALE in the first panel, directly above the second panel.
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Finally, the bottom picture shows a smaller distance scale with all bodies enlarged (even the sun!) so you can see them in one screen width. Notice that from Saturn to Uranus is as far as from Sun to Saturn, and from Uranus to Neptune is further still. Pluto is not shown at all because it would be so very far out the label names wouldn't fit on the page. As it is, the names of Mercury, Venus and Earth are missing in the third panel.
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The point is, if the second and third panels had everything to scale all you would see is the sun, because the planets would be too small to see, except for Jupiter and perhaps Saturn, which would be about one pixel in diameter (smaller than a speck of dust on your screen). 
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Then the overly-anxious flat-earthers could complain that they could only see a black rectangle with a yellow dot at one end.
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Source (http://www.jaymaron.com/aristarchus/aristarchus.html)
Scale Model of the Solar System
In the following diagrams, all sizes and distances to scale, unless an object
is too small to be visible, in which case a green dot is used.
[/pre]
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(https://s16-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jaymaron.com%2Faristarchus%2Foom.moon.png&sp=883b444cf17b780dcff4bf7e91d4c7dd)
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Truth is Eternal on April 05, 2018, 11:17:33 PM
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The entire thread speaks for itself. I don't have to repeat it. Are you deaf or blind or just insolent? Loser.
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Your shrill whining only makes you look worse, if that were possible.
You have to repeat yourself Neil Obstat. Please try to bend the horizontal horizon while your at it.
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on April 06, 2018, 12:02:02 AM
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Flat-earthers have nothing to fear but sphere itself.       :incense:
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Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on April 06, 2018, 12:25:16 AM
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From the 3-part scale diagram, the distance from earth to Jupiter is more than 3 times the distance from earth to sun.

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(https://s16-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jaymaron.com%2Faristarchus%2Foom.moon.png&sp=883b444cf17b780dcff4bf7e91d4c7dd)

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If Jupiter were as close to earth as our moon is this is what it would look like:
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(https://s16-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FLbIBk.jpg&sp=11d3147a14256d52ffc42d40bfb613a5)
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The moon makes a 1/2 degree arc in the sky but Jupiter at the same distance (240,000 miles) would make a TWENTY degree arc. 
That's because Jupiter is around 40 times the diameter of the moon.
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The appearance of Jupiter in our sky at the current distance of the moon would be extremely unsettling.
It would fill about half the sky from most vantage points where only a portion of the sky is visible, like between trees or buildings.
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(https://s16-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic1.squarespace.com%2Fstatic%2F55a411fee4b048e137875f95%2Ft%2F55db8e13e4b060656810ba65%2F1440452163462%2F%3Fformat%3D750w&sp=cece9b6443e23d8289ab69bd2e11ff97)
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on April 06, 2018, 01:07:30 AM
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The point of this relative scale business is to answer the questions about the earth's shadow falling on the moon during an eclipse or why the full moon could be visible instead of being overshadowed by the earth.
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http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2012/09/18/how-the-earth-moves-and-how-do-we-know/
(https://s17-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Fscienceblogs.com%2Fstartswithabang%2Ffiles%2F2012%2F09%2Feclipse_shadows.jpg&sp=aa805ae103abc7eda8529d4c94365fcd)
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The point is, the earth's shadow usually falls well above or well below the moon. It's only on rare occasions that the dark or inner shadow of the earth passes over the face of the moon. When it does, it's frequently only a partial coverage, that is, a partial lunar eclipse. At that time we don't see much change. That's what a so-called blood moon is, a partial eclipse when atmospheric conditions on the earth produce a reddish haze that covers the moon. But the moon is not in total shadow of the earth's umbra at that time.
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The moon's shadow (umbra or "inner shadow" in this diagram) is much smaller than the moon, but the earth's umbra ("inner shadow") is only slightly smaller than the earth. This is due to the greater apparent size of the earth when viewed from the moon -- it would fill a space in the sky several times the space that the sun fills since the earth is much closer to the moon than the sun is (about 200 times closer). The earth's shadow tapers down to a smaller size toward the moon and beyond the moon at a more gradual rate than does the shadow of the moon toward the earth and beyond the earth.
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In this diagram perhaps you can imagine how the moon's orbiting plane does not keep the same orientation to the earth-sun line (on the ecliptic), and therefore the 5-degree angle that offsets the moon's orbital plane around the earth from the sun's orbital plane around the earth (ecliptic) is constantly changing. That doesn't mean the angle between the two planes changes, but that the DIRECTION TO THE SUN changes, so sometimes it's 5 degrees but usually it's less than 5 degrees. The angle of the moon-earth line to the ecliptic plane constantly changes as the moon orbits in that tilted plane which is always at a constant 5 degrees from the ecliptic plane. 5 degrees UP is the most the moon ever gets (as in diagram B), and then it decreases as the sun's path through the sky continues and the moon's orbit around the earth continues, for the moon's 5-degree angle doesn't usually measure 5 degrees with regards to the direction where the sun currently is located. The moon passes through the vertical plane between the earth and sun, but that's only for an instant, then the next day the moon passes by the earth-sun plane at a LOWER angle and so on until it reaches the maximum of 5 degrees below the earth (somewhat depicted in diagram A -- imagine the moon being down there when it is in the vertical plane between earth and sun that passes through Ecliptic North/Ecliptic South -- if it were there in this diagram the moon would be hidden behind the earth).
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In other words, that hoop representing the moon's orbit remains at 5 degrees offset from the ecliptic plane but it wobbles as it were like a plate twirling around as it settles on the table, or like a spinning hoop oscillates as it is coming to rest on a horizontal table (one cycle each day) as the sun goes through the sky every day. If I can find a video of this, I'll post it.
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(http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/files/2012/09/Earth-Moon-Incline-600x408.jpg)
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Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on April 09, 2018, 03:31:00 AM
I have another problem with the official explanation of Lunar Eclipses.  According to NASA,

(https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/styles/full_width_feature/public/total-lunar-eclipse.jpg)


"A total lunar eclipse happens when the whole moon enters Earth's shadow. Some sunlight still reaches the moon, but first it goes through Earth's atmosphere. The atmosphere filters out most of the sun’s blue light, so the moon looks red.

In this time-lapsed image, the moon changes color as it moves through Earth’s shadow."

https://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/k-4/stories/total-lunar-eclipse

My problem is how does the sunlight passing through the Earth's atmosphere cover the entire Moon.  Since ALL of the light dimly illuminating the Moon a shade of red, must pass through the Earth's atmosphere to make the Moon red, how is it enough sunlight to cover the entire Moon, if it is just passing through the atmosphere?  It seems like it shouldn't be big enough.  Particularly since, if the Earth's atmosphere is supposed to be so gargantuan, then it should be affecting the Moon's color all the time, but we don't see that.  So, what's up with that?  

Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on April 09, 2018, 03:39:03 AM
Again, just look at this illustration from NASA

(https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/styles/full_width_feature/public/umbra-penumbra.jpg)

Look how huge the Penumbra is.  How could the Moon look full outside of the Penumbra?  How could you be able to view the illuminated side of the Moon?  
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on April 09, 2018, 03:43:14 AM
You can see from the picture above the affect of a massive Sun, in the "Globe Earth" model:  it shrinks the Umbra.  
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on April 09, 2018, 03:48:47 AM
You can see, if the eclipse happened in the Penumbra, that it should happen with every Full Moon, but if it occurs in the Umbra, then it shouldn't be visible.  Lots of problems with the round/globe earth model.  
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on April 10, 2018, 10:17:28 PM
I have another problem with the official explanation of Lunar Eclipses.  According to NASA,

(https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/styles/full_width_feature/public/total-lunar-eclipse.jpg)


"A total lunar eclipse happens when the whole moon enters Earth's shadow. 
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It's not the whole moon being covered that makes it a total lunar eclipse. Any part of the moon that has the earth's umbra (inner shadow) falling on it is in total lunar eclipse. But since the earth's umbra is so large -- it's bigger than the moon, see below -- it is often positioned such that the entire moon is in the darkest shadow. That never happens on the earth, where the moon's shadow is never big enough to cover all the earth.
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Even so, when you are in a total solar eclipse (as I have been, and have millions of Americans this past August) in the center of the axis of totality, it is entirely dark, just like night time, in all directions, as far as the eye can see, which further supports the spheroid earth model because if the earth were "flat" then we would be able to see sunlight in the clouds at a great distance from totality.
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However, from a very high vantage point, such as viewed from an aircraft in flight, the sunlight in the distant horizon can be seen because the plane is high enough to push the limits of the earth's curvature.
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Quote
Some sunlight still reaches the moon, but first it goes through Earth's atmosphere. The atmosphere filters out most of the sun’s blue light, so the moon looks red.

In this time-lapsed image, the moon changes color as it moves through Earth’s shadow."

https://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/k-4/stories/total-lunar-eclipse

My problem is how does the sunlight passing through the Earth's atmosphere cover the entire Moon.  Since ALL of the light dimly illuminating the Moon a shade of red, must pass through the Earth's atmosphere to make the Moon red, how is it enough sunlight to cover the entire Moon, if it is just passing through the atmosphere?  It seems like it shouldn't be big enough.  Particularly since, if the Earth's atmosphere is supposed to be so gargantuan, then it should be affecting the Moon's color all the time, but we don't see that.  So, what's up with that?  

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Nobody said the sun's light that hits the moon is "just passing through the atmosphere." During a full moon, there is NO light on the moon passing through the earth's atmosphere. But during a lunar eclipse, there is a TRANSITION period where some is, and some isn't. Just before the moon turns all copper colored, the sun's light is not first going through the earth's atmosphere, then when the moon turns reddish brown, that's when all the light shining on it is that color because of the earth's atmosphere. Wait a while and the red disappears. It's not an all-or-nothing situation. It changes minute by minute.
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You sound like you've never seen a lunar eclipse the way you keep shifting to extremes.
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Your problem is you paid no attention to the diagram I already posted just before you asked the question that it already answered:
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(https://s17-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Fscienceblogs.com%2Fstartswithabang%2Ffiles%2F2012%2F09%2Feclipse_shadows.jpg&sp=aa805ae103abc7eda8529d4c94365fcd)
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It's the lower of the two images that applies for lunar eclipses.
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Notice the penumbra of the earth (outer shadow) is thin (lower image) -- whereas the penumbra of the moon is much larger (upper image) in proportion to the moon's umbra (inner shadow).
That is due to the proportional distances of the earth's diameter and distance from the sun, and the moon's diameter and distance from the sun, together with the sun's diameter. The moon is proportionally much smaller compared to it's solar distance than the earth is, therefore the moon's penumbra is thicker than the earth's.
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For example, the apparent diameter of the moon as viewed from earth is very close to the apparent diameter of the sun. But as viewed from the moon, the apparent diameter of the earth would be about 3 times the apparent diameter of the sun, so obviously the earth's shadow over the moon covers a much larger area than the moon's shadow does over the earth.
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See how big the earth's shadow is when the moon goes through it?
Since the sunlight passing through the earth's atmosphere gets scattered, the shadow that reaches the moon is not sharp-edged.
And only in SOME conditions does the moon take on a red glow, which is called "blood moon" (even though it's more like a copper color, not blood, but "blood" is more exciting apparently, so it's more popular -- sometimes popular demand rules the language).
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on April 10, 2018, 10:36:53 PM
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The image you provided is not proportionally correct, and therefore leads to misunderstanding.
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(https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/styles/full_width_feature/public/umbra-penumbra.jpg)
.               .................Relative scale is NOT correct!........................
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The angles of sunlight are all wrong because the sun's great distance would never make shadows looking like that.
Which is why I posted the image that I did, which shows the proper proportions:
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(https://s17-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Fscienceblogs.com%2Fstartswithabang%2Ffiles%2F2012%2F09%2Feclipse_shadows.jpg&sp=aa805ae103abc7eda8529d4c94365fcd)
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                                                 "Relative scale is correct!"
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You can see from the picture above the affect [effect] of a massive Sun, in the "Globe Earth" model:  it shrinks the Umbra.  
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You can't see much of ANYTHING from the image you posted, because the scale is all wrong and it therefore is unsuitable for understanding the particulars of a lunar eclipse. What you have posted there is only for superficial, non-scientific enjoyment a.k.a., entertainment. 
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Which is why I'm saying, pay attention to accurate information, or else you're attacking a STRAW MAN.

Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on April 10, 2018, 10:51:07 PM
You can see, if the eclipse happened in the Penumbra, that it should happen with every Full Moon, but if it occurs in the Umbra, then it shouldn't be visible.  Lots of problems with the round/globe earth model.  
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All wrong. Based on misunderstanding and relying on bad diagrams and information.
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The lunar eclipse happens partially in the penumbra, but that is only a small slice of the sky around the moon.
The earth's penumbra measures less than two degrees as viewed from the moon, while the moon's orbit is offset by 5 degrees.
That's why it doesn't happen with every full moon.
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Furthermore, the earth's penumbra landing on the moon isn't obvious from earth.
Just as the moon's penumbra falling on the earth, when viewed from satellites, hardly shows up at all.
What you can see from the ISS or other LEO views is a fuzzy smudge with a dark spot (maybe!) in the middle.
The dark spot is the umbra, and it's pretty small from LEO.
One needs to be a lot closer to the earth's surface to get the full impact of a total solar eclipse.
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When the total lunar eclipse occurs over the entire moon (when it's all in the umbra) the moon is still visible, but less obviously, due to the diffused light that scatters around the edge of the earth through the earth's atmosphere. So of course, it's visible.
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The "problems" you have are due to your penchant to look for difficulties where there are none to be found.
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Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on April 10, 2018, 11:07:46 PM
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You have to be very careful drawing conclusions from diagrams.
Here is a diagram I posted above, which says the earth and moon are accurately proportional, but that's only the case in the LOWER IMAGE, labeled "B". It is NOT the case in image A.
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The more accurate picture I provided above, depicts the moon located at about 15 earth diameters away from earth.
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In this less accurate one, the moon's orbit is shown at less than two earth diameters. See the difference?
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(http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/files/2012/09/Earth-Moon-Incline-600x408.jpg)
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See how the moon is easily outside the earth's penumbra in image B.
The penumbra, remember, is smaller than the earth's diameter. 
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If the moon's 5-degree orbital angle were shown in the image below, the moon would be outside the edge of the picture!
Since the moon displaces one-half a degree from earth's vantage point, 5 degrees translates to 10 moon diameters.
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(https://s17-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Fscienceblogs.com%2Fstartswithabang%2Ffiles%2F2012%2F09%2Feclipse_shadows.jpg&sp=aa805ae103abc7eda8529d4c94365fcd)
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on April 21, 2018, 09:08:26 PM
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Tomorrow, Sunday April 22nd, 2018, will be a great opportunity to learn about the moon and the sun, firsthand.
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At 2:46 pm Pacific Time (UTC -7) the First Quarter moon appears in the sky for all to see.
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It will be daylight in all of America so you won't have any excuses.
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The sun will be high in the afternoon sky and the moon will be rising at about the 11 o'clock position.
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Literally, it will be the 10:46 o'clock position. Remember, we're on Daylight Savings Time.
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When the moon enters its First Quarter phase, the angle it makes to the sun is very important.
This angle only lasts a few minutes as the sun moves away from the moon and the angle constantly increases.
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It's important because at that moment, the moon occupies the 90-degree corner of a right triangle.
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The earth is at the other large angle, close to 90 degrees, but slightly less.
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The sun is therefore at the third angle, a much smaller one.
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All triangles have three angles and three sides. That's what makes them triangles.
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A right triangle has special properties that allow us to estimate the length of its sides when the angles are known.
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Since we know that the moon's angle, (between earth and sun) at the moment of the quarter moon, is 90 degrees, we can thereby estimate the relative distances from earth to sun compared to earth to moon.
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We get this opportunity twice each month, but sometimes it happens at night when the sun and moon are not visible in the sky.
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Tomorrow, they'll both be in plain view for all to see.
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Incidentally, they'll both be in plain view in the northern hemisphere as well as the southern hemisphere.
So people in Chile or Argentina or Brazil or the Galapagos Islands will be able to see the same First Quarter moon.
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The moon will appear exactly the same from all over the earth, which would be impossible if the earth were "flat."
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Anywhere on earth the moon is visible from, tomorrow, at the time it becomes a Quarter moon, it will appear the same.
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There is no "flat-earth model" capable of rendering this phenomenon which is why flat-earthers abhor the concept of a "model."
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It's easy to measure the angle between the moon and the sun, without hurting your eyes.
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All you need is a rectangular block of styrofoam like you get from the packing box your globe came in.
Oh, right, you don't have a globe.
Well, maybe you like pizza.
If you don't throw away your square pizza box, it makes a great device for measuring the angle we want to measure here.
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You only need to hold the pizza box (or styrofoam block) up so that one side of it aligns with the moon.
Look along the side of the box so it points in line with the moon.
Then adjust the side on the right until it points at the sun.
You don't have to look at the sun.
All you have to look at is the shadow the sun makes on the side of the pizza box.
When the sun is aligned with the side of the box, the sunlight will be just skimming over the rough surface of the cardboard (or of the styrofoam block).
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Once you get these two line-ups going together, you can see how much the difference is from the 90-degree angle on the box.
You might find it easier to use a fence post or a car roof to steady the box while you look.
Estimate how much less than 90 degrees the moon's angle is toward the sun.
Remember the moon's diameter in the sky is 1/2 degree.
So if the pizza box's edge barely covers the moon while the other edge points at the sun,
then the moon's angle to the sun is one quarter of one degree less than 90 degrees.
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Or if the edge of the pizza box splits the moon in half, then the angle between sun and moon is 90 degrees.
BTW if you take too long and do this measurement at 2:59 pm instead of at 2:46 pm, you could easily see the pizza box splitting the moon in half.
So you'd be best off practicing today or tomorrow well in advance of 2:46 pm so you won't have to waste precious time.
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If you are a flat-earther, you can perhaps feel privileged to know that no flat-earther has yet made a single post on CathInfo reporting of the results of this empirical measurement.
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So you can be the FIRST!!
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Ironically, there have been flat-earther posts whining and moaning about "the lack of empirical evidence that the globalists have provided," but still, they have refused to try this very simple empirical experiment.
Why do they refuse? They never manage to explain that.
They also refuse to be honest about why they refuse to participate.
Notice while they're busy complaining about lack of empirical evidence, here we are providing empirical evidence.
They know that if the results of their measurement shows them something they don't want to know, they'll be upset.
And you know, flat-earthism is all about feelings, and it's nothing about reality!
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Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on June 28, 2018, 01:38:31 AM

In the past, flat-earthers have complained that the diagrams offered for their edification are of no use because they are "not to scale," and that this not being to scale is a matter of great anxiety for them. They presuppose that someone is trying to deceive them by using untruthful diagrams or whatever. The fact of the matter is, a diagram that is to scale showing these things is a diagram that cannot be seen on you computer screen, because the images of the sun and planets and especially the moon are too small to be noticeable, that is, they would be smaller than one pixel. Well, the sun might be two or three pixels. But it would nonetheless be something that doesn't show up obviously. Here is a good attempt to depict the difficulty. The picture shows three scales. The whole point is for these bodies to be VISIBLE to the viewer, that means YOU. The scale on top (first panel) shows a large blue earth and a smaller yellow moon at its relative distance and diameter, to scale. They're blue and yellow, not green, therefore they are to scale, as the header describes. That's it for diameters being to scale! The second panel shows the sun's diameter to scale but not the planets. The third panel has only DISTANCE to scale. Even the sun is a green dot. The reason for that is, if the diameters were to scale (in the second and third panels) the planets and moons would not be visible because they would be too small. If they were to show the sun to scale with the top panel, the sun would be the size of a basketball, unable to fit on the page. The scale in the middle (second panel) shows the sun to scale and then enlarged dots for the planets Mercury, Venus and Earth, all at their relative distances to scale from the sun. The planets are enlarged because if their diameters were to scale also, they would be too small, smaller than one pixel, and therefore would not be visible in this format. Notice the two moons of Mars are not visible, as they are much too small. Also, they have "Moon" labeled near Earth but it's too small to be obvious. I tried greatly enlarging this from the source page image, and found there is a sort of shadowy green blur on the right side of Earth which is likely their moon image. In other words, even when they attempt to depict the Moon with a green dot it's not really visible. But again, remember the scale distance and diameter of Earth--Moon is depicted TO SCALE in the first panel, directly above the second panel.  Source (http://www.jaymaron.com/aristarchus/aristarchus.html)

Scale Model of the Solar System - In the following diagrams, all sizes and distances to scale, unless an object is too small to be visible, in which case a green dot is used.
(https://s16-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jaymaron.com%2Faristarchus%2Foom.moon.png&sp=883b444cf17b780dcff4bf7e91d4c7dd)
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Here is a diagram showing how the "flat" earth view of the same moon from two positions on "flat" earth works out:
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on June 28, 2018, 01:55:11 AM
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In this diagram, two people are standing on the "flat" earth, separated by about 3,000 miles, comparable to one person in Massachusetts and one in Southern California. They both are looking at the same moon, which is currently a FULL moon, and it is located directly overhead in Nebraska, or halfway between the two observers. Don't worry about where the sun is, because that's not part of this diagram:
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(https://www.cathinfo.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=47897.0;attach=11875;image)
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The large moon image on the left is how the same moon (small moon in the center where the arrows are pointing) would have to appear to the viewer in Massachusetts if it were to be a FULL moon, and the large moon on the right is how the same moon would have to appear to the viewer in California, if it were to be a FULL moon.

But notice that the small moon in the center provides the illuminated side of the full moon, while the large moon on the left provides the view of the BACK SIDE of the moon that we never see, so it should be all dark when the moon is full when viewed from earth!

Likewise the large moon on the right provides a view of the moon that we DO see, but when the center small moon appears FULL in Nebraska, the right 30% of the California view ought to be in the dark, too, similar to the Massachusetts view! (but only partially dark)

The two enlarged views are shown fully illuminated so we can identify the details -- if they were partially in the dark we wouldn't be able to see the whole picture as this shows.

The whole point of this diagram is to show how we would be seeing the full moon from different locations on a "flat" earth, but in fact, we don't see this at all. The full moon looks like the SAME FULL MOON from anywhere on the real, spherical, earth.

Not on the "flat" earth, and that's because the earth isn't flat.
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Flat-earthers really get annoyed with simple thinking like this, because in order to succuмb to flat-earthdown-syndrome, you have to put your thinking cap on the shelf and forget about it.                     FUGGETABOUDIT!  
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on August 23, 2018, 11:59:54 PM
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Welcome to one of the many threads flat-earthers love to ignore. 
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For one small topic this one is sure packed with a lot of verifiable empirical evidence for the spheroid earth. 
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Incidentally, last week was an excellent opportunity to make simple observations of the quarter moon.
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The moon reached its first quarter Saturday, August 18th, at 12:45 am.
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Therefore the best time to observe the angle between moon and sun would have been just before sunset on the 17th.
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 10, 2018, 12:54:24 AM
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The First Quarter Moon of December will occur on the 15th at 3:49 am viewed from Los Angeles (and N and S of there).
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On Dec. 14th, the moon rises in the east at 11:58 am and sets in the west at 11:32 pm, with 41% illumination.
On Dec. 15th, the moon rises at 12:28 pm and sets the next day, the 16th, at 12:28 am, with 50% illumination.
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The sun rises at 6:51 and sets at 4:45, with a daylight duration of 9 hours 54 minutes on the 14th.
It rises and sets on the 15th at about the same times, with a one minute shorter daylight duration.
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On both the 14th and the 15th, the sun reaches its highest point in the sky at 11:48 am.
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The position of the moon in the sky at the time it turns First Quarter can be anticipated from this information by deduction.
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That is, presuming the earth is spheroidal, it can be anticipated.
   If one makes the mistake of presuming the earth is "flat," then the position of the moon cannot be anticipated by deduction.
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This proves the earth is not "flat." 
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 13, 2018, 10:55:52 AM
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Just one more day to go, when the First Quarter Moon of December proves the earth is not "flat."
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Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 17, 2018, 03:46:27 PM
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..............and exactly zero flat-earthdom syndromers bothered to look, as expected. 
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The moon showed up on schedule and did again what it does twice a month: it proved the earth is spheroidal -- that is, for those with eyes to see. 
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For those without eyes to see, they follow the blind, and both fall into the pit. What else is new?
Title: Re: The Moon's Phases in the Real (spheroid) Earth World
Post by: Neil Obstat on December 20, 2018, 04:13:16 AM
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The next Full Moon is Saturday morning at 9:50 am, so you get a pretty good prelude on Friday night.
To the casual observer you wouldn't notice the difference.
The moon will be nearly full, and at 12:00 midnight Friday night, it will be directly overhead in the middle of the sky.
Once again proving that the earth is not "flat."
Everywhere, all around the globe, the moon will be highest in the sky at midnight, especially over the equator, and less so at the two poles.