Author Topic: The Firmament (Read 1794 times)

Cera · « **on:** August 20, 2022, 07:24:45 PM »

The Firmament in Scripture

"And God said: Let there be a firmament made amidst the waters: and let it divide the waters from the waters."
[Genesis 1:6]
"And God made a firmament, and divided the waters that were under the firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so."
[Genesis 1:7]
"And God called the firmament, Heaven; and the evening and morning were the second day."
[Genesis 1:8]

"And God said: Let there be lights made in the firmament of heaven, to divide the day and the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years:"
[Genesis 1:14]
"To shine in the firmament of heaven, and to give light upon the earth. And it was so done."
[Genesis 1:15]

"And he set them in the firmament of heaven to shine upon the earth."
[Genesis 1:17]

"God also said: Let the waters bring forth the creeping creature having life, and the fowl that may fly over the earth under the firmament of heaven."
[Genesis 1:20]

"Then hear thou in heaven, in the firmament of thy dwelling place, and do all those things, for which that stranger shall call upon thee: that all the people of the earth may learn to fear thy name, as do thy people Israel, and may prove that thy name is called upon on this house, which I have built."
[3 Kings (1 Kings) 8:43]

"Then hear thou in heaven, in the firmament of thy throne, their prayers, and their supplications, and do judgment for them:"
[3 Kings (1 Kings) 8:49]

"The Lord is my firmament, my refuge, and my deliverer. My God is my helper, and in him will I put my trust. My protector and the horn of my salvation, and my support."
[Psalms 17:3]

"The heavens shew forth the glory of God, and the firmament declareth the work of his hands."
[Psalms 18:2]

"The Lord is a firmament to them that fear him: and his covenant shall be made manifest to them."
[Psalms 24:14]

"Be thou unto me a God, a protector, and a place of strength: that thou mayst make me safe. For thou art my firmament and my refuge."
[Psalms 70:3]

"And there shall be a firmament on the earth on the tops of mountains, above Libanus shall the fruit thereof be exalted: and they of the city shall flourish like the grass of the earth."
[Psalms 71:16]

"Praise ye the Lord in his holy places: praise ye him in the firmament of his power."
[Psalms 150:1]

"The firmament on high is his beauty, the beauty of heaven with its glorious shew."
[Ecclesiasticus (Sirach) 43:1]

"And over the heads of the living creatures was the likeness of the firmament, as the appearance of crystal terrible to behold, and stretched out over their heads above."
[Ezechiel (Ezekiel) 1:22]
"And under the firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other, every one with two wings covered his body, and the other was covered in like manner."
[Ezechiel (Ezekiel) 1:23]
19

"For when a voice came from above the firmament, that was over their heads, they stood, and let down their wings."
[Ezechiel (Ezekiel) 1:25]

"And above the firmament that was over their heads, was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of the sapphire stone, and upon the likeness of the throne, was a likeness as of the appearance of a man above upon it."
[Ezechiel (Ezekiel) 1:26]

Ladislaus · « **Reply #1 on:** August 20, 2022, 08:17:49 PM »

Indeed, one can argue about globe vs. flat, but it's absolutely clear that the Church Fathers unanimously understood the firmament mentioned by Sacred Scripture as a solid thing that separated actual physical waters from the atmosphere (the sky) and the earth and then the waters below the earth. NONE of them believed that it was a metaphor for something much less "firm", i.e., the vacuum of space, or the air, or the Van Allen Belt, or any such stupidity that Modernist have used to explain away the firmament into a metaphor.

Dr. Sungenis certainly does recognize this, but his explanation is some hypothesis (that I must say I do not completely understand) of there being some infinitely dense quality to space? Or something like that. Perhaps someone can clarify what he means there. I heard it only briefly mentioned in his debate with Rob Skiba.

Giovanni Berto · « **Reply #2 on:** August 20, 2022, 08:36:02 PM »

The interesting thing is that, psychologically, it is much more comfortable to think that God is just there on the other side of the roof of the world, than to think that He sits where the almost infinite blackness ends.

It is nearly impossible to imagine how the Ascension or the Assumption happened if we believe the modern science version of the universe.

I feel much closer to God if I imagine a solid, close firmament. To imagine the huge black universe is a kind of lonely and agnostic experience.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #3 on:** August 20, 2022, 08:53:50 PM »

Quote from: Giovanni Berto on August 20, 2022, 08:36:02 PM

The interesting thing is that, psychologically, it is much more comfortable to think that God is just there on the other side of the roof of the world, than to think that He sits where the almost infinite blackness ends.

It is nearly impossible to imagine how the Ascension or the Assumption happened if we believe the modern science version of the universe.

I feel much closer to God if I imagine a solid, close firmament. To imagine the huge black universe is a kind of lonely and agnostic experience.

Indeed. What does the Ascension really "mean" with the modern cosmology? Did Our Lord float up into ... the sky, the clouds, the vacuum of space? Was it just some kind of a show that He was going up when in reality He was merely crossing over into some alternate dimension? Of course, FEs also point out that the Ascension/Assumption are rather curious from the perspective of a globe earth as well. From the perspective of the Antipodeans, Our Lord was descending into Heaven and ascending into Hell (after His death on the Cross).

That also is the FE argument about a small, enclosed cosmos, rather than this infinite expanse of space ... vis-a-vis why the Luceferian rulers of this world would try to perpetrate such a hoax ... because think of how much more difficult it would be to be an atheist if people believed that we lived in an enclosed world with the firmament above us, rather than being a tiny dot in the huge expanse of the universe.

Giovanni Berto · « **Reply #4 on:** August 20, 2022, 09:10:49 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on August 20, 2022, 08:53:50 PM

Indeed. What does the Ascension really "mean" with the modern cosmology? Did Our Lord float up into ... the sky, the clouds, the vacuum of space? Was it just some kind of a show that He was going up when in reality He was merely crossing over into some alternate dimension? Of course, FEs also point out that the Ascension/Assumption are rather curious from the perspective of a globe earth as well. From the perspective of the Antipodeans, Our Lord was descending into Heaven and ascending into Hell (after His death on the Cross).

That also is the FE argument about a small, enclosed cosmos, rather than this infinite expanse of space ... vis-a-vis why the Luceferian rulers of this world would try to perpetrate such a hoax ... because think of how much more difficult it would be to be an atheist if people believed that we lived in an enclosed world with the firmament above us, rather than being a tiny dot in the huge expanse of the universe.

And it is not only about cosmology. This question kind of reaches in to the metaphysical realm.

I think that Heliocentrism, and to a lesser extent, Globearthism lead inevitably to believe that Heaven is in a kind of different dimension. I would be as if God created two different worlds: the one on which we are now, and another for when we die.

We have two words in English, sky and Heaven, but in many languages, including Latin, as far as I know, the word caelum means both the sky and Heaven, the place where saints are. It makes no sense to think that "caelum" is not in the sky. Scripture wouldn't make sense if it was like this.

There is so much talk of ascending and descending, including in the Old Testament. It is hard to believe that people from five thousand years ago would see "cealum" or "ascension" as having a figurative meaning.

God speaks figuratively in many different ways in the Holy Writ. It is illogical to think that He would use always the same figures from the very first to the very last book in the Bible only when the subject is cealum/heaven/sky.

Tradman · « **Reply #5 on:** August 20, 2022, 09:16:33 PM »

Quote from: Giovanni Berto on August 20, 2022, 08:36:02 PM

The interesting thing is that, psychologically, it is much more comfortable to think that God is just there on the other side of the roof of the world, than to think that He sits where the almost infinite blackness ends.

It is nearly impossible to imagine how the Ascension or the Assumption happened if we believe the modern science version of the universe.

I feel much closer to God if I imagine a solid, close firmament. To imagine the huge black universe is a kind of lonely and agnostic experience.

It's a beautiful thought. I had this conversation with someone I know while we were discussing FE. How God is literally right there, above the firmament, just beyond the relatively near stars. Yea, Our Lord is in the tabernacle, and visits are still possible. But for those locked out of their churches, it's all the more comforting.

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #6 on:** August 20, 2022, 10:48:39 PM »

Right, helio and globe earth theories both destroy the idea that heaven and hell are real, tangible places. And it also makes many stories in the Bible seem impossible or nonsensical. Philosophically, both theories are anti-catholic, even if it’s not apparent at first glance.

sram · « **Reply #7 on:** August 21, 2022, 08:24:24 AM »

We're completely being lied to about our solar system, galaxy and "universe". It's one of the oldest ongoing deceptions concocted by Satan through men who hate Christ. I don't believe anything that science says about "outer space" beyond the exosphere. It's all intended to make people have no Faith in the only true God Who created us, the world, the firmament.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #8 on:** August 21, 2022, 12:58:52 PM »

Quote from: sram on August 21, 2022, 08:24:24 AM

We're completely being lied to about our solar system, galaxy and "universe". It's one of the oldest ongoing deceptions concocted by Satan through men who hate Christ. I don't believe anything that science says about "outer space" beyond the exosphere. It's all intended to make people have no Faith in the only true God Who created us, the world, the firmament.

Indeed. Whether you're a geocentrist along the lines of Dr. Sungenis, or a Flat Earther, I think we can all agree that we have been lied to about the nature of the cosmos by the atheistic (Satanic) scientific apparatus.

Matthew · « **Reply #9 on:** August 21, 2022, 01:06:45 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on August 20, 2022, 08:53:50 PM

That also is the FE argument about a small, enclosed cosmos, rather than this infinite expanse of space ... vis-a-vis why the Luceferian rulers of this world would try to perpetrate such a hoax ... because think of how much more difficult it would be to be an atheist if people believed that we lived in an enclosed world with the firmament above us, rather than being a tiny dot in the huge expanse of the universe.

You hit the nail on the head. Everything we know about the modern world -- it's godlessness, its materialism, its atheism -- the depths we are at today WOULDN'T BE POSSIBLE without first making atheism somewhat acceptable by those who aren't clinically insane.

If everyone accepted that Earth was the center of the universe, that we were under a firmament, etc. -- who would believe in atheism? (Pardon the pun... but actually, atheists are as religious about their lack of God, and their religion of "science", as any fundamentalist or religious zealot). I suppose we could still have a wicked world (think: bad Catholics, "the corruption of the best is the worst"), but not the very specific brand of wickedness we have today. Obviously it all comes into God's plan for the world. If we had the corruption-of-the-best, we'd have to move right to the Antichrist, but God wants something to happen before that.

DigitalLogos · « **Reply #10 on:** August 21, 2022, 01:10:35 PM »

You all should read Pythagoras or Christ? by science historian Alberto A. Martinez. He lays out a solid conclusion that the Pythagorean and pagan notion of "many worlds" is heresy and was condemned as such by the Church, and was the leading heresy that condemned Bruno to the stake.

So, astoundingly, even this idea that there are billions of other worlds "out there" is not Catholic and was viewed as a pagan novelty prior to the Galilean revolution.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #11 on:** August 21, 2022, 02:44:01 PM »

Quote from: Matthew on August 21, 2022, 01:06:45 PM

You hit the nail on the head. Everything we know about the modern world -- it's godlessness, its materialism, its atheism -- the depths we are at today WOULDN'T BE POSSIBLE without first making atheism somewhat acceptable by those who aren't clinically insane.

If everyone accepted that Earth was the center of the universe, that we were under a firmament, etc. -- who would believe in atheism? (Pardon the pun... but actually, atheists are as religious about their lack of God, and their religion of "science", as any fundamentalist or religious zealot). I suppose we could still have a wicked world (think: bad Catholics, "the corruption of the best is the worst"), but not the very specific brand of wickedness we have today. Obviously it all comes into God's plan for the world. If we had the corruption-of-the-best, we'd have to move right to the Antichrist, but God wants something to happen before that.

I can't offhand recall the name of the (very articulate) Black man (with a British accent) who's a proponent of Flat Earth. He says in one interview that he used to be an atheist, but that after he realized that the earth his flat, he ended up having to reject his atheism and believe that there was a Creator.

Cera · « **Reply #12 on:** August 21, 2022, 04:06:08 PM »

https://www.quora.com/Does-the-Earth-really-have-a-firmament-over-it

Does the Earth really have a firmament over it?

Michael BrennerStudied Mechanical Engineering & Comparative Linguistics at Vienna University of Technology
Author has 348 answers and 735.8K answer viewsUpdated 10mo

Well, the vast majority of mankind over the vast majority of history said yes,

….. it is only very recently as historical timelines go that mankind got into their heads to leave earth, and thus had to do away with the notion of a firmament. In order to convince us of such frivolous desire, the credibility of the ancient people had to be demolished by calling them superstitious ignorants.

Would be interesting to know how superstitious ignorants came to be able to correctly calculate a precessional Age of 2160 years? and entertain the notion and grasp the temporal expanse of a Cosmic Year of 25,920 earth years?

They had the knowledge and skill to build astrolabes, with which they could make the most precise astronomical predictions:

… and build structures we would be incapable of replicating today? like for instance Kailas Temple, cut as a monolith out of solid bedrock, inside and out.

They understood medicine in a way we are a just about to catch up with…

… and had specific words and signs for time intervals down to nanoseconds: here below the time units from an hour down in following steps of fractions of the foregoing: 1–1/16–1/144–1/72–1/76–1/160 = 4.8e-11h

People who show such a level of skill and knowledge deserve to be listened to, deserve our attention, especially when we consider the fact that what WE call “Religion” is a fairly recent development, what these people practiced was “Gnostic” which means “Knowledge”, they didn't “believe” stuff, they “knew”. The demolition of Knowledge and the establishment of Belief in institutionalized churches, the replacement of knowledge with computation is a tragic story in its own right, for here it’s important to realize that when we look at universal ancient depictions of a firmament, we need to pay attention.

It serves us well to pay attention also to the man who led humanities effort to go exploring and colonizing the universe, the man with his focus set at a long distance. For every man comes the time of reckoning, and that is when it’s time to actually leave earth, albeit a bit less spectacular than this:

On the gravestone of a man like Wernher van Braun one would thus expect a eulogy containing phrases like “Visionary” “Pioneer” “Space” “Solar System and beyond” something along these lines….. and what do we find?

… a terse reference to a short verse, where two words stand out: Heavens and Firmament as showing Gods handiwork….. which doesn't mean space btw. as is often interpreted, but something corporeal.

Psalm 19:1 “The Heavens declare the glory of God, and the Firmament sheweth his handiwork”

These are the last words from a man who had spent his life aiming far beyond the Firmament, and I think that unexpected turn of events really deserves attention.

DigitalLogos · « **Reply #13 on:** August 21, 2022, 04:12:11 PM »

The desire to escape from earth into "space" is a sort of Mithraic idea of breaking out of the lower world to the higher in order to commune with Sol Invictus, aka Lucifer.

And the modern "elites" are still practicing Mithraism, aka Masonry, today. Hence why they're restoring these things

https://www.bloomberg.com/company/stories/museum-beneath-bloombergs-european-headquarters-connects-future-generations-ancient-history/

Ladislaus · « **Reply #14 on:** August 22, 2022, 12:38:33 AM »

Quote from: DigitalLogos on August 21, 2022, 04:12:11 PM

The desire to escape from earth into "space" is a sort of Mithraic idea of breaking out of the lower world to the higher in order to commune with Sol Invictus, aka Lucifer.

Hmmm. So perhaps related to Operation Fishbowl? And could that be what they were attempting to do with the Tower of Babel. I get this feeling that there was more to that tower than brick and mortar.

Author Topic: The Firmament (Read 1794 times)

Cera

The Firmament

Ladislaus

Re: The Firmament

Giovanni Berto

Re: The Firmament

Ladislaus

Re: The Firmament

Giovanni Berto

Re: The Firmament

Tradman

Re: The Firmament

Pax Vobis

Re: The Firmament

sram

Re: The Firmament

Ladislaus

Re: The Firmament

Matthew

Re: The Firmament

DigitalLogos

Re: The Firmament

Ladislaus

Re: The Firmament

Cera

Re: The Firmament

DigitalLogos

Re: The Firmament

Ladislaus

Re: The Firmament