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Author Topic: The Earth is Flat  (Read 28375 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The Earth is Flat
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2023, 12:55:57 PM »
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  • St. Thomas Aquinas on Aristotle:

    Proof of the earth's spherical shape from motion
    https://aquinas.cc/la/en/~DeCael.L27

    Proofs of the earth's sphericity from the angle of motion of its parts and from astronomy
    https://aquinas.cc/la/en/~DeCael.L28

    This is nothing more than a Commentary on Aristotle and is purely "scientific".  Last time I checked, St. Thomas was a Doctor of Doctrine/Theology, and not a Doctor of Physics.  So this is an incredibly weak and pathetic "appeal to authority" when St. Thomas is no authority on matters of science.  This would be like me appealing to the authority of a professor of Latin for a matter of science.

    Offline Angelus

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    Re: The Earth is Flat
    « Reply #16 on: October 12, 2023, 12:57:42 PM »
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  • This is nothing more than a Commentary on Aristotle and is purely "scientific".  Last time I checked, St. Thomas was a Doctor of Doctrine/Theology, and not a Doctor of Physics.  So this is an incredibly weak and pathetic "appeal to authority" when St. Thomas is no authority on matters of science.  This would be like me appealing to the authority of a professor of Latin for a matter of science.

    Why don't you read it? Maybe you would learn something.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The Earth is Flat
    « Reply #17 on: October 12, 2023, 12:59:45 PM »
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  • Why don't you read it? Maybe you would learn something.

    Pathetic response.  It's been read and discussed here numerous times, and explained why Aristotle's proofs fail.  Nor did you bother to respond to exposure of your false argument from "authority" ... because you can't.

    Offline EdgarLovesMary

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    Re: The Earth is Flat
    « Reply #18 on: October 12, 2023, 02:30:59 PM »
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  • Why don't you read it? Maybe you would learn something.

    The same chapter includes the Saint's commentary on the philosopher's proof of geocentrism. 

    Big Bang and all the other atheistic science nonsense also requires a heliocentric solar system... 

    Geocentrism provides extremely strong evidence to support Creationism. It's what the Church has believed for most of Her history. And it works with Flat/Globe/Young/Old Earth models & theories.

    It also works with ALL observable astronomy.

    The "Tychos model" (Tycho Brahe's model + with the post-Brahe notion of binary systems = Mars & Sun are a binary pair orbiting Earth; Mars being the red dwarf; moonless Mercury & Venus are actually the Sun's moons) even provides a beautiful representation of the unseen reality. The math within it greatly elevates the importance of the Moon and its relation to all other nearby heavenly bodies...

    In the Tychos binary model, one can find in the difficult-to-look-directly-at Sun a representation of the Father--creator & sustainer of all life; in Mars, we see a "sacrificed" red dwarf star that can be stared at directly from Earth. Mars can be seen as a type for the Son -- especially as it is visible but its true glory is hidden here in the Church Militant (as within the Eucharist). The Sun & Mars' beautifully-mapped binary trochoidal orbit around Earth can be seen as a type of the Holy Spirit. And the Moon can be seen as a type for Mary -- the Moon is, after all, below Her feet. And she is the "glue" that holds it all together. 

    Perhaps the most compelling evidence for the binary Sun & Mars geocentric model is the fact that modern astronomy has determined that the Sun is the only observable star in the sky that *is not* part of a binary pair. The size ratio between the Sun and its red dwarf (Mars) is identical to other observable binary pairs.  

    Offline Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: The Earth is Flat
    « Reply #19 on: October 12, 2023, 02:36:32 PM »
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  • The same chapter includes the Saint's commentary on the philosopher's proof of geocentrism.

    Big Bang and all the other atheistic science nonsense also requires a heliocentric solar system...

    Geocentrism provides extremely strong evidence to support Creationism. It's what the Church has believed for most of Her history. And it works with Flat/Globe/Young/Old Earth models & theories.

    It also works with ALL observable astronomy.

    The "Tychos model" (Tycho Brahe's model + with the post-Brahe notion of binary systems = Mars & Sun are a binary pair orbiting Earth; Mars being the red dwarf; moonless Mercury & Venus are actually the Sun's moons) even provides a beautiful representation of the unseen reality. The math within it greatly elevates the importance of the Moon and its relation to all other nearby heavenly bodies...

    In the Tychos binary model, one can find in the difficult-to-look-directly-at Sun a representation of the Father--creator & sustainer of all life; in Mars, we see a "sacrificed" red dwarf star that can be stared at directly from Earth. Mars can be seen as a type for the Son -- especially as it is visible but its true glory is hidden here in the Church Militant (as within the Eucharist). The Sun & Mars' beautifully-mapped binary trochoidal orbit around Earth can be seen as a type of the Holy Spirit. And the Moon can be seen as a type for Mary -- the Moon is, after all, below Her feet. And she is the "glue" that holds it all together.

    Perhaps the most compelling evidence for the binary Sun & Mars geocentric model is the fact that modern astronomy has determined that the Sun is the only observable star in the sky that *is not* part of a binary pair. The size ratio between the Sun and its red dwarf (Mars) is identical to other observable binary pairs. 
    If in your model the Earth moves then it's not what the Church Fathers believed nor does it escape the Holy Office's condemnation.


    Offline St Giles

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    Re: The Earth is Flat
    « Reply #20 on: October 12, 2023, 02:53:36 PM »
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  • Anyway, this 2min video shows how the horizon rises to eye level as you gain altitude.  On a ball earth the opposite would happen. 



    Horrible video proof. The marker the guy uses is a reflection of a building on the ground. If they are moving away from the ground, the reflection of what's on the ground will also change. And it is an unsteady video, and short, low altitude ascent. Figuring out what is optical illusion and how things would really look on a globe earth without error are beyond most people's abilities. Let us not open ourselves to being so easily deceived by things that are of relatively little importance to our purpose in life.
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    Offline Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: The Earth is Flat
    « Reply #21 on: October 12, 2023, 03:06:25 PM »
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  • Horrible video proof. The marker the guy uses is a reflection of a building on the ground.
    Reflection? What reflection?


    Quote
    If they are moving away from the ground, the reflection of what's on the ground will also change. 

    If they don't move away from the ground how are they supposed to see what happens to the horizon when you ascend?

    Quote
    And it is an unsteady video, 

    Steady enough to see the horizon go up.

    Quote
    and short, low altitude ascent. 

    And...? The horizon still went up, which was the point.
    Quote
    Figuring out what is optical illusion and how things would really look on a globe earth without error are beyond most people's abilities. 

    True, it's hard to imagine the impossible, but we have computer simulations that can demonstrate certain features that should characterize the ball earth, such as shadows on the under side of clouds and the falling horizon.

    Quote
    Let us not open ourselves to being so easily deceived

    I agree, y'all were really too easy to deceive.

    Quote
     by things that are of relatively little importance to our purpose in life.

    True for us Catholics, not true for everyone else. The general public would immensely benefit from seeing the truth of the matter. The positive effect would be enormous.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: The Earth is Flat
    « Reply #22 on: October 12, 2023, 03:08:43 PM »
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  • Figuring out what is optical illusion and how things would really look on a globe earth without error are beyond most people's abilities.

    For the most part, I agree with you there.

    But on the other hand, some degree of common sense also enters into it. We've never seen the curve, water seeks its own level, you shouldn't be able to see buildings/mountains/land masses "below the bulge" which has happened countless times, etc. I certainly don't feel any kind of motion, despite there supposedly being SEVERAL high-speed forces acting on us at the present moment (spin of the earth, orbit of the earth, and the motion of the whole solar system through the galaxy).

    Gravity has also never been observed in the laboratory. There's supposedly some magic point where mass is supposed to start attracting other mass. But this has never been observed. Gravity is just a theory. Even the atheists admit gravity is one of the "weakest forces in the universe". Oh, and they had to come up with Dark Matter and Dark Energy to save their Big Bang/spinning planets cosmological model.
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    Offline EdgarLovesMary

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    Re: The Earth is Flat
    « Reply #23 on: October 12, 2023, 03:11:35 PM »
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  • If in your model the Earth moves then it's not what the Church Fathers believed nor does it escape the Holy Office's condemnation.

    The Tychos Model is not "my" model.

    It is a compelling secular model that provides very strong evidence for geocentrism, which is a concept that Holy Mother Church has proclaimed for most of Her existence. And still, today, geocentrism is dismissed almost as callously and quickly as "flat earth."  

    I bring attention to it here because it doesn't show up when I do searches--leading me to believe many regulars around here may not be exposed to it. 

    Offline Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: The Earth is Flat
    « Reply #24 on: October 12, 2023, 03:19:05 PM »
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  • The Tychos Model is not "my" model.

    It is a compelling secular model that provides very strong evidence for geocentrism, which is a concept that Holy Mother Church has proclaimed for most of Her existence. And still, today, geocentrism is dismissed almost as callously and quickly as "flat earth." 

    I bring attention to it here because it doesn't show up when I do searches--leading me to believe many regulars around here may not be exposed to it.
    Interesting way of avoiding the points I raised.

    Offline EdgarLovesMary

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    Re: The Earth is Flat
    « Reply #25 on: October 12, 2023, 03:34:48 PM »
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  • Interesting way of avoiding the points I raised.

    Your points, as best as I can observe them, are that:

    1. Any model that involves any movement of the Earth goes against what all of the Church fathers believed.
    2. The Holy Office has condemned all models wherein Earth moves in any way. 

    I am very ignorant on these matters. As such, I am not in a position to contest your points.

    I also wasn't avoiding your points.

    In my ignorance, I was clarifying that the Tychos model is not my own.

    And while secular, I believe the Tychos Model is useful in helping people grasp that schoolbook astronomy is largely anti-Christian propaganda. Even in this secular Tychos model, types of the unseen reality can be found. I find that interesting. And helpful in our efforts to evangelize the full Traditional Catholic Truth. 


    Offline Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: The Earth is Flat
    « Reply #26 on: October 12, 2023, 03:43:05 PM »
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  • Your points, as best as I can observe them, are that:

    1. Any model that involves any movement of the Earth goes against what all of the Church fathers believed.
    2. The Holy Office has condemned all models wherein Earth moves in any way.
    Correct. Try finding a Church Father who believed the earth moved.

    Point 2 is likewise easily proven:


    Quote
    The Sacred Tribunal being therefore of intention to proceed against the disorder and mischief thence resulting, which went on increasing to the prejudice of the Sacred Faith, by command of His Highness and of the Most Eminent Lords Cardinals of this supreme and universal Inquisition, the two propositions of the stability of the Sun and the motion of the Earth were by the theological Qualifiers qualified as follows:

    The proposition that the Sun is the centre of the world and does not move from its place is absurd and false philosophically and formally heretical, because it is expressly contrary to the Holy Scripture.

    The proposition that the Earth is not the centre of the world and immovable but that it moves, and also with a diurnal motion, is equally absurd and false philosophically and theologically considered at least erroneous in faith.


    If you're interested in geocentrism Daly's study is a must-read. https://www.ldolphin.org/geocentricity/Daly.pdf

    I am very ignorant on these matters. As such, I am not in a position to contest your points.

    I also wasn't avoiding your points.

    In my ignorance, I was clarifying that the Tychos model is not my own.

    And while secular, I believe the Tychos Model is useful in helping people grasp that schoolbook astronomy is largely anti-Christian propaganda. Even in this secular Tychos model, types of the unseen reality can be found. I find that interesting. And helpful in our efforts to evangelize the full Traditional Catholic Truth.
    All good my man, you did avoid my points,. however.

    FE is even better for evangelization and I find arguing for it much easier than only geocentrism. Gets too technical.

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: The Earth is Flat
    « Reply #27 on: October 12, 2023, 05:09:52 PM »
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  • Disney starting kids early with globalist indoctrination.    


    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: The Earth is Flat
    « Reply #28 on: October 12, 2023, 05:56:53 PM »
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  • Edit in post below.
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: The Earth is Flat
    « Reply #29 on: October 12, 2023, 06:10:00 PM »
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  • Disney starting kids early with globalist indoctrination.   




    Sorry, but the real indoctrination from the film was the push of the false idea that in the middle ages it was commonly believed that the Earth was flat. This was a falsehood perpetrated by Washington Irving in his embellished life of Christopher Columbus. BTW: His biography of Columbus also highlights his prejudice against the Catholic Church.
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?