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Author Topic: The Big Bang Heresy  (Read 661 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: The Big Bang Heresy
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2025, 07:56:58 PM »
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  • Lighten up!  I was just pointing at the passage in the bible to be funny (I guess when men are really talking about theories, there is no room for humor.)  I will try to remember that next time. :cowboy:
    How is the idea of heretics going to hell, over the Big Bang, funny?  Again, just shows your immaturity.  

    Online Gray2023

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    Re: The Big Bang Heresy
    « Reply #16 on: May 24, 2025, 08:56:56 PM »
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  • How is the idea of heretics going to hell, over the Big Bang, funny?  Again, just shows your immaturity. 
    Heretics going to hell is not funny, but I was talking about concepts, not people.



    You defend these scientific heresies and you don't even understand them.  :facepalm:  If you think your attitude towards the Faith and Scripture is acceptable as a Catholic, you are woefully mistaken.  I pray you realize the depths of your errors.  You are a material heretic, no question about it.  Shame on you.
    I wasn't defending anything.  I was pointing out a passage in the bible.  I did not have a hidden agenda or anything.  I am not sure how you went from my quote in the bible to thinking that I am defending heresy.  I think you made some major assumptions.  



    I know that the scientific "Big Bang Theory" was invented by a French-Jesuit priest named Georges LeMeitre (wrong spelling, probably) and, because of that, many or most Catholics believe that, therefore, it's perfectly fine for Catholics to accept this theory.

    I don't think the Church ever formally condemned LeMeitre or his theory. So I don't see a problem with accepting it, personally.
    Will someone be kind enough to explain what IndultCat was trying to say, here?  I think I might have misunderstood it.

    Was it in relation to (AI generated. I did not fact check it)

    Quote
    Georges Lemaître, a Belgian Catholic priest and cosmologist, is widely recognized as a pioneer in the development of the Big Bang theory. He proposed the idea that the universe began from an extremely hot, dense state (often called the "primeval atom" or singularity) that expanded and cooled, forming the universe as we know it. His work, particularly his 1927 paper, laid the foundation for the modern Big Bang theory. 

    Here's a more detailed look at Lemaître's contributions:
    • Proposing the Expanding Universe:
      Lemaître's work, inspired by Edwin Hubble's observations of red-shifted galaxies, suggested that the universe is expanding, which was a key element of the Big Bang theory. 
    [li]The "Primeval Atom":
    He envisioned the universe originating from a single, unstable point of immense density and energy, which he called the "primeval atom" or "primordial atom". 
    [/li]
    [li]Connecting Science and Faith:
    Lemaître's work was unique in that he was both a devout priest and a brilliant scientist, and he saw no conflict between his religious beliefs and his scientific work. 
    [/li]
    [li]Influence and Legacy:
    Lemaître's initial ideas were later developed and refined by other cosmologists, including George Gamow, and his theory became the dominant explanation for the origin of the universe. 
    [/li]
    [li]Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation:
    He also suggested that the universe should be filled with faint microwave radiation, which was later confirmed by observations, providing strong evidence for the Big Bang theory. [/li][/list]

    So with all that being said, can you show me the church docuмentation that condemned Father Georges Lemaitre as a heretic?

    Just the facts men. I don't think people want to talk about my maturity level.

    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: The Big Bang Heresy
    « Reply #17 on: May 24, 2025, 10:49:49 PM »
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  • You don’t understand why the Big Bang is heretical?  How about you go LEARN the topic before you make jokes?  :facepalm:

    Offline cassini

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    Re: The Big Bang Heresy
    « Reply #18 on: May 25, 2025, 10:32:26 AM »
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  • Coincidentally, Kolbe Center posted this on Sunday;

    This photograph has been used to indoctrinate generations of Catholics into the false notion that Fr. Georges Lemaitre was a great Catholic scientist who exemplified the way that Catholic intellectuals can reconcile the legitimate discoveries of modern science, like the origins of the cosmos in terms of the Big Bang hypothesis, with the essential elements of Catholic doctrine.

    Pope Pius XII and Monsignor Georges Lemaitre

    Christopher De Vos, a member of our leadership team, and the director of the Mary Michael Machabee Institute, has almost completed a video production which will explode the myth of Monsignor Lemaitre as an exemplary Catholic scientist. In the meantime, he has given me permission to quote from the first part of the video script which will hopefully help to destroy this false icon of evolution once and for all.

    The Myth of Fr. Lemaitre, the Peacemaker between Religion and Science

    Fr. Georges Lemaître is widely respected in both Catholic and secular circles. Born in 1894 and educated at the Catholic University of Louvain and later at Harvard, Lemaître engaged with some of the most prominent scientists of his time, including Einstein and Hubble. He has become a symbol of the idea that "religion and science are never in conflict." Many Catholics today see the "Big Bang"—a model developed by Lemaître—as evidence of Creation, offering a natural proof of a beginning and affirming the existence of a Creator. However, Lemaître himself firmly opposed this interpretation, emphasizing in his writings that the Big Bang was never intended to demonstrate Creation.

    As we uncover these lesser-known aspects of Fr. Lemaître’s work, it becomes clear that assuming his conclusions align with the Catholic faith simply because he was a priest is a significant mistake. One should not presume that his theories are compatible with the Church’s perennial doctrines, as his continual violations of admonitions given in papal encyclicals and elsewhere will make clear.
    Like the ancient atomists and the deists of recent centuries, Lemaître proposed ideas grounded in a naturalistic view of the universe.

    Lemaître wrote:

    'In Laplace’s determinism [that a solar-system evolved], everything is written, evolution is similar to the implacable rotation of a recorded magnetic tape or the engraved spiral of a phonograph disc. Everything that would be heard would have been read from the tape or the disc. It is quite another story with the advent of modern physics and, according to the present theory these concepts should also apply to the universe, at least to the beginning of its evolution. This beginning is perfectly simple, indivisible, undifferentiated, “atomic” in the Greek sense of this world. The world differentiates as it evolves; it does not consist in the spinning out, the decoding of a recording. Rather it consists in a song, each note of which is new and unpredictable. The world made itself and made itself randomly.'

    Scientistically- liberated Catholics like Fr. Lemaître, often seek to shield their research from any intrusion by Church doctrine, avoiding alleged ecclesiastical interference hindering their false philosophies from posing as natural science. However, this liberal approach has led to ideas that subtly undermine Catholic doctrine and the Church’s interpretation of Revelation.

    These dangerous ideas are promoted by modern media and educational institutions, which claim to base their philosophic positions in a natural scientific or empirically based reality. These influences often pressure the Church and her theology to conform to their errors. St. Pius X warned of this in his first encyclical:

    We will use the greatest diligence to prevent members of the clergy from being drawn into the snares of a certain new and fallacious science, which savors not of Christ but, with masked and cunning arguments, seeks to open the door to rationalism and semi-rationalism.

    Fr. Lemaitre Denies the Dogma of Scriptural Inerrancy

    Our examination of Fr. Lemaître as a modernist thinker will challenge many, but it is vital for Catholics to understand why his writings and novel ideas conflict with traditional Church teachings. For example, in 1934, Lemaître stated:

    The writers of the Bible were illuminated more or less — some more than others — on the question of salvation. On other questions they were as wise or ignorant as their generation. Hence it is utterly unimportant that errors in historic and scientific fact should be found in the Bible, especially if the errors related to events that were not directly observed by those who wrote about them . . . The idea that because they were right in their doctrine of immortality and salvation they must also be right on all other subjects, is simply the fallacy of people who have an incomplete understanding of why the Bible was given to us at all.

    How does this compare to Pope St. Pius X’s critique of modernist interpretations in Pascendi Dominici Gregis?

    In the Sacred Books there are many passages referring to science or history where, according to them, manifest errors are to be found. But, they say, the subject of these books is not science or history, but only religion and morals. In them history and science serve only as a species of covering to enable the religious and moral experiences wrapped up in them to penetrate more readily among the masses.

    Pope Benedict XV also addressed these errors in his 1920 encyclical Spiritus Paraclitus:

    Their notion is that only what concerns religion is intended and taught by God in Scripture, and that all the rest - things concerning "profane knowledge," the garments in which Divine truth is presented - God merely permits, and even leaves to the individual author's greater or less knowledge. Small wonder, then, that in their view a considerable number of things occur in the Bible touching physical science, history and the like, which cannot be reconciled with modern progress in science!

    Decades earlier, Pope Leo XIII firmly condemned such errors, stating that they are “absolutely wrong and forbidden” and “cannot be tolerated.”


    It is a lamentable fact that there are many who with great labour carry out and publish investigations on the monuments of antiquity [archaeology]… whose chief purpose in all this is too often to find mistakes in the sacred writings and so to shake and weaken their authority. Some of these writers display not only extreme hostility, but the greatest unfairness; in their eyes a profane book or ancient docuмent is accepted without hesitation, whilst the Scripture, if they only find in it a suspicion of error, is set down with the slightest possible discussion as quite untrustworthy… But it is absolutely wrong and forbidden, either to narrow inspiration to certain parts only of Holy Scripture, or to admit that the sacred writer has erred. For the system of those who, in order to rid themselves of these difficulties, do not hesitate to concede that divine inspiration regards the things of faith and morals, and nothing beyond… this system cannot be tolerated.

    The father of the modernists, Fr. Loisy, before being excommunicated, ridiculed the historical reality of Genesis. Fr. Lemaitre, a staunch modernist, filled the void left by Fr. Loisy. Let Catholics today avoid the love of novelty and not overlook these papal condemnations regarding the interpretation of Holy Writ for the good of souls.

    We will notify you as soon as Christopher’s video on Fr. Lemaitre is available for viewing on his website. In the meantime, please use the information in this newsletter to disabuse your Catholic friends and family of the notion that Fr. Lemaitre exemplified the ideal of a great Catholic scientist. Indeed, it would show much more charity to Fr. Lemaitre if we were to ask our fellow Catholics to enter into eternity in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and beg Our Lord to grant him the grace of true repentance and conversion in his last moments.

    Through the prayers of the Holy Theotokos, may the Holy Ghost guide us into all the Truth!

    Yours in Christ through the Holy Theotokos in union with St. Joseph,

    Hugh Owen



    Offline Persto

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    Re: The Big Bang Heresy
    « Reply #19 on: May 25, 2025, 12:46:19 PM »
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  • Coincidentally, Kolbe Center posted this on Sunday;

    This photograph has been used to indoctrinate generations of Catholics into the false notion that Fr. Georges Lemaitre was a great Catholic scientist who exemplified the way that Catholic intellectuals can reconcile the legitimate discoveries of modern science, like the origins of the cosmos in terms of the Big Bang hypothesis, with the essential elements of Catholic doctrine.

    Pope Pius XII and Monsignor Georges Lemaitre
    Lemaître wrote:
    'The world made itself and made itself randomly.'

    Our examination of Fr. Lemaître as a modernist thinker will challenge many, but it is vital for Catholics to understand why his writings and novel ideas conflict with traditional Church teachings.

    Thank you Cassini for the information on this thread.  It has been good to learn about Fr. Lemaitre and the history behind the Big Bang theory.
    Persevere...
    Fear not, nor be any way discouraged- Duet.1:21


    Online Seraphina

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    Re: The Big Bang Heresy
    « Reply #20 on: May 25, 2025, 03:37:45 PM »
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  • Online Gray2023

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    Re: The Big Bang Heresy
    « Reply #21 on: May 25, 2025, 03:56:19 PM »
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  • You don’t understand why the Big Bang is heretical?  How about you go LEARN the topic before you make jokes?  :facepalm:
    Who is Pax even referring to with this statement? 

    IndultCat was the one who said

    Quote
    I know that the scientific "Big Bang Theory" was invented by a French-Jesuit priest named Georges LeMeitre (wrong spelling, probably) and, because of that, many or most Catholics believe that, therefore, it's perfectly fine for Catholics to accept this theory. 

    I don't think the Church ever formally condemned LeMeitre or his theory. So I don't see a problem with accepting it, personally.


    He said this because LeMaitre was never condemned by the church.  The problem is that during LeMaitre's lifetime, the sin of "Human Respect" or putting man at the center of Science was already seeping in and not being condemned because weak popes were afraid (of man per se).  This is why Catholic Truth started to unravel quickly.

    This is what I have learned by my reading.  I know that my reading comprehension is not the best, so please help me see where my mistakes are without belittling my intentions.  
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: The Big Bang Heresy
    « Reply #22 on: May 25, 2025, 09:15:19 PM »
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  • So with all that being said, can you show me the church docuмentation that condemned Father Georges Lemaitre as a heretic?
    :facepalm:  As I already explained, there’s literally 1,000s of heresies that are INDIRECTLY condemned by the church, when She proclaims DOCTRINE.  She does not have time to go around and declare each and every heresy as anathema. 

    Example:  It is a fact of math that 2+2=4.

    Here are some possible errors:
    2+2 = 4.1
    2+3 = 4
    1+2 = 4 
    2+2 = 5
    etc etc

    All of these errors are implicitly/indirectly condemned because they contradict the doctrine above.  Ergo, anytime someone runs around and proclaims the *infinite* errors related to this fact, they are already condemned.  It’s simple logic.  


    Offline cassini

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    Re: The Big Bang Heresy
    « Reply #23 on: May 26, 2025, 05:03:00 AM »
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  • He said this because LeMaitre was never condemned by the church.  The problem is that during LeMaitre's lifetime, the sin of "Human Respect" or putting man at the center of Science was already seeping in and not being condemned because weak popes were afraid (of man per se).  This is why Catholic Truth started to unravel quickly.

    This is what I have learned by my reading.  I know that my reading comprehension is not the best, so please help me see where my mistakes are without belittling my intentions. 

    To read even one who now understands the problem after this discussion is worth it. Well explained Gray2023.

    On the eve of the Amazon Synod held on October, 5th 2019, 10 Catholic lay leaders warned of the revolutionary designs against the Catholic faith from inside and outside the Catholic Church. Hosted by the pro-life group, Voice of the Family, the discussion, titled “Our Church, Reformed or Deformed,” featured a number of Catholic men active in trying to preserve what is left of the traditional Catholic faith on Earth in our time. One speaker summarised when and how this modern ‘reformation’ began in the Catholic Church:


    ‘Satan uniquely entered the Catholic Church at some point over the last century, or even before. For over a century, the organizers of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, Liberalism, and Modernism infiltrated the Catholic Church in order to change her doctrine, her liturgy and her mission from something supernatural to something secular.’--- (Taylor Marshall, LifeSiteNews, October 4, 2019.)

    Offline cassini

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    Re: The Big Bang Heresy
    « Reply #24 on: May 26, 2025, 07:10:10 AM »
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  •  

    In an otherwise impressive defense of Christianity when he was just a bishop being interviewed on a hostile American Talk Show, the future Pope at about 16-minutes-36-seconds into the above video of the interview has nothing but praise for both Newton & Galileo whom he refers to as 'the greatest scientists in history'!

    In other words, our new pope also rejects Genesis's supernaturalism for a metaphorical one held by the host.