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Author Topic: Test to Prove Gravity  (Read 1328 times)

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Offline St Giles

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Test to Prove Gravity
« on: January 25, 2024, 10:50:15 AM »
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  • I know some of you are gravity deniers. I was pleased to find this suggested video of an experiment to prove gravity that I've been wanting to try myself. It was interesting to see how this guy's attempt may have failed, while another's was too successful to be believed, and yet he didn't decide right then and there to stop believing that gravity exists. And you guys put so much faith in people's video recorded attempts to prove the earth is flat, when they may be getting a false result without thoroughly testing the veracity of their experiment. In the end, a miniature higher precision lab experiment is demonstrated. Some of the commenters remember setting up a similar experiment in college and obtaining a similar margin of error.

    I wonder if it would work best if the masses used were all submerged in a low density highly conductive fluid to help cancel out any slight charges that may be affecting the results. Wires could be used to electrically short all parts of the experiment, but it would be difficult to keep the resistance low enough while keeping the wire flexibility high enough that it wouldn't overpower the force of gravity.

    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Test to Prove Gravity
    « Reply #1 on: January 25, 2024, 11:17:23 AM »
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  • This is nonsense.  They've tried to build muti-million dollar apparatuses to test this, mirroring the Cavendish setup, and they've had wildly varying measurements/results.  Masses involved are so small here that anything can affect the behavior more than gravity would.  Forces involved are so small that anything else, from the earth's gravity, the air movement, to eletromagnetic/electrostatic forces can affect movement more than the force of gravity that would be involved here.  That's why they've spent mullions attempting to exclude all external forces.


    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Test to Prove Gravity
    « Reply #2 on: January 25, 2024, 12:00:56 PM »
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  •  Masses involved are so small here that anything can affect the behavior more than gravity would.  
    That's my concern with the small scale experiment. Also, I disagree with Mould's suggestion that he could have just done away with one set of heavy weights because gravity is a constant acceleration regardless of how massive something is. He was thinking of a feather vs lead weight being dropped in a vacuum and falling at the same speed, but that doesn't apply here. As much mass as possible is needed to enhance the strength of the force to better overcome competing forces. I'd also like to see a much longer, if not thinner, suspension wire, and a much longer distance between the hanging weights to enhance the torque.

    More materials that the weights are made of should be experimented with as well as various charge cancelling methods.

    But, if we have to accept any flat earth demonstration video as solid proof, this video is no less believable with regards to gravity.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Test to Prove Gravity
    « Reply #3 on: January 25, 2024, 01:09:00 PM »
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  • That's my concern with the small scale experiment. Also, I disagree with Mould's suggestion that he could have just done away with one set of heavy weights because gravity is a constant acceleration regardless of how massive something is. He was thinking of a feather vs lead weight being dropped in a vacuum and falling at the same speed, but that doesn't apply here. As much mass as possible is needed to enhance the strength of the force to better overcome competing forces. I'd also like to see a much longer, if not thinner, suspension wire, and a much longer distance between the hanging weights to enhance the torque.

    More materials that the weights are made of should be experimented with as well as various charge cancelling methods.

    But, if we have to accept any flat earth demonstration video as solid proof, this video is no less believable with regards to gravity.

    Well, gravity is somewhat distinct from FE per se.  I'm not sure why the two get conflated all the time.

    Whether or not one is capable of getting the math for "gravity" right, the explanation of how masses can act upon one another at a distance has remained elusive.  Some have tried to attribute it to electromagnetic fields, Einstein to simply a curve in space time, and the most recent theory being that is has to do with thermodynamics.

    What FEs don't do a great job of is where they say that all you need is buoyancy.  In a sense that's true, and I submit that buoyancy/density suffice to explain the movement in and of itself, no different than how things move up or down in water do to their relative density.  But what's missing is an explanation for what might cause the DIRECTIONALITY of the movement, up or down.  Why do more dense things move "down"?

    Gravity isn't the only possible explanation for the directionality of the movement.  We know that the earth has a negative charge, so there could be electromagnetism involved.  It could be due to the flow of ether.  It could be due to atomic forces of some kind.  I saw a video of an MIT professor who said that the force of gravity is so weak on the earth that it's a non-factor and that everything on earth is explained by electromagnetism, and that gravity only has any effect between things at the scale of planets.

    I guess where gravity enters into the GE/FE debate is that the explanation for how things can stick to the "bottom" of a ball earth is "gravity".  But the debate about whether such a force, whether it's gravity or electromagnetism or whatever, exists I find to be irrelevant vis-a-vis the shape of the earth, because the same force that allegedly would cause things to stick to the bottom of a ball would also cause the downward motion of things on a hypothetical flat earth.  So if there's no gravity, but it's really a type of electromagnetism, then that electromagnetism could be the explanation for how things stick on the bottom of a ball.  So I'm not really sure which argument it's really addressing.

    I find the gravity debate to be something of a red herring.  FEs sometime think that if gravity doesn't exist, then it makes a globe earth impossible, but it really doesn't depending on whatever else you end up replacing gravity with.

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Test to Prove Gravity
    « Reply #4 on: January 25, 2024, 01:47:59 PM »
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  • This is nonsense.  They've tried to build muti-million dollar apparatuses to test this, mirroring the Cavendish setup, and they've had wildly varying measurements/results.  Masses involved are so small here that anything can affect the behavior more than gravity would.  Forces involved are so small that anything else, from the earth's gravity, the air movement, to eletromagnetic/electrostatic forces can affect movement more than the force of gravity that would be involved here.  That's why they've spent mullions attempting to exclude all external forces.

    Correct Ladislaus. It is as simple as that. This video is trying to prove Newton's universal theory of gravity that is also used to show how the universe came together and evolved into a heliocentric solar system after their Big Bang. Of importance to this experiment for them is that two of the balls are hanging so they can swing in the air. If he put the balls on a table, a tiny steel ball-bearing beside a huge cannon ball on a glass surface and they moved towards one another that would prove gravity. No, he uses the Foucault Pendulum method of swinging balls so when they move by some inertia he can claim his theory does it. It is some inertia that causes things like the Coriolis force.


    Offline cassini

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    Re: Test to Prove Gravity
    « Reply #5 on: January 25, 2024, 02:35:49 PM »
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  • Well, gravity is somewhat distinct from FE per se.  I'm not sure why the two get conflated all the time.

    Whether or not one is capable of getting the math for "gravity" right, the explanation of how masses can act upon one another at a distance has remained elusive.  Some have tried to attribute it to electromagnetic fields, Einstein to simply a curve in space time, and the most recent theory being that is has to do with thermodynamics.

    What FEs don't do a great job of is where they say that all you need is buoyancy.  In a sense that's true, and I submit that buoyancy/density suffice to explain the movement in and of itself, no different than how things move up or down in water do to their relative density.  But what's missing is an explanation for what might cause the DIRECTIONALITY of the movement, up or down.  Why do more dense things move "down"?

    Gravity isn't the only possible explanation for the directionality of the movement.  We know that the earth has a negative charge, so there could be electromagnetism involved.  It could be due to the flow of ether.  It could be due to atomic forces of some kind.  I saw a video of an MIT professor who said that the force of gravity is so weak on the earth that it's a non-factor and that everything on earth is explained by electromagnetism, and that gravity only has any effect between things at the scale of planets.

    I guess where gravity enters into the GE/FE debate is that the explanation for how things can stick to the "bottom" of a ball earth is "gravity".  But the debate about whether such a force, whether it's gravity or electromagnetism or whatever, exists I find to be irrelevant vis-a-vis the shape of the earth, because the same force that allegedly would cause things to stick to the bottom of a ball would also cause the downward motion of things on a hypothetical flat earth.  So if there's no gravity, but it's really a type of electromagnetism, then that electromagnetism could be the explanation for how things stick on the bottom of a ball.  So I'm not really sure which argument it's really addressing.

    I find the gravity debate to be something of a red herring.  FEs sometime think that if gravity doesn't exist, then it makes a globe earth impossible, but it really doesn't depending on whatever else you end up replacing gravity with.

    With all the physicists and universities in the world trying to prove their Newton/Einstein theories of heliocentric gravity so that the Church of 1616 and 1633 can be ridiculed, few would know the truth of universal movements. There are probably two explanations, one of nature and one spiritual. These are confined to readers of CIF as you will not find them in any physics book or any book coming out of the Vatican since 1835. Well, here is the greatest secret the history of faith and science. Domenico Cassini (1625-1712), God's astronomer, a geocentrist, falsified Kepler's and Newton's elliptical orbits. He measured orbits as Cassinian Ovals. It was many years later when some laws of electromagnetism were discovered that it was found Cassinian ovals are related to positive pole electromagnetic forces.This link can be demonstrated by spreading iron-filings over a 2 positive-pole magnetised surface. This will form directional charge patterns that constitute a whole series of Cassinian ovals. 



    Now here are the orbits of all sun and planets we see from Earth. But we also see a sight called stellar aberration and stellar parallax. For this to be the orbit of the sun and stars must be linked, meaning the stars must also move in Cassinian ovals.

    And now we come to the spiritual side. To keep all the stars, planets, moons and sun from collapsing into one another, God put an angel in charge of each. 

    ‘It is true that all the stars and heavenly bodies by the natural direction given them by God pursue their several courses but these great worlds are material and, therefore, as the Angelic Doctor points out, are liable to decay and deterioration. To prevent therefore, disorder and confusion in the multitude of heavenly bodies which are whirling through space with inexpressible speed, God gives each one, in His all-wise Providence, an Angel to keep it in its course and avert the dire calamities that would result were it to stray from its allotted orbit…. Few people think on all this when on beautiful star-lit nights they gaze on the sky and the myriads of stars. How fitting it would be to salute the countless Angels who guard these stars: “Oh glorious Angels of the stars we love you. Please bless us and shower on us your protection.”’---E.D.M.: All about Angels, Catholic Printing Press, Portugal, 1945, pp.31, 32.

    Having first created heaven and Earth in darkness, the Book of Genesis tells us God then created ‘light.’ He then divided this light from the original darkness in creation. Today, as understood by mankind, science knows what that light is, describing it as within a certain portion of the electromagnetic spectrum. Accordingly, when God created light, he in effect created electromagnetism. God then created the sun and stars to generate such light in ‘heaven and Earth.’

    But there is another secret being kept from humanity. I will keep that for another post.


    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Test to Prove Gravity
    « Reply #6 on: January 25, 2024, 02:58:06 PM »
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  • Well, gravity is somewhat distinct from FE per se.  I'm not sure why the two get conflated all the time.
    I think you are missing my point. I find no connection of significance between gravity and FE. It's just that you have a problem with both gravity and GE, and seem to think your FE proof videos are so worthy of belief, when they seem no better than this proof of mass based gravity video.

    Correct Ladislaus. It is as simple as that. This video is trying to prove Newton's universal theory of gravity that is also used to show how the universe came together and evolved into a heliocentric solar system after their Big Bang. Of importance to this experiment for them is that two of the balls are hanging so they can swing in the air. If he put the balls on a table, a tiny steel ball-bearing beside a huge cannon ball on a glass surface and they moved towards one another that would prove gravity. No, he uses the Foucault Pendulum method of swinging balls so when they move by some inertia he can claim his theory does it. It is some inertia that causes things like the Coriolis force.
    I don't think the swinging is intentional, just tolerated. The result seems independent of the swinging, but the swinging obviously exists, and so must be taken into account and compensated for like they do in the video.

    The way I see it is that the point of suspending the weights isn't so they can swing like a pendulum, but is rather an easy way of greatly reducing interfering forces of friction and bonding caused by surface to surface contact, leaving only the torque resistance of the suspending wire and air resistance if present.

    Perhaps the force exerted by light should be considered since the large stationary masses will block some light from getting to the suspended masses, and if the light doesn't push them together, maybe surface heating on the better lit side causing the air to expand might push them. Or would the higher density air on the cold side push them?

    See how we can't so easily stop with one experiment? Many more angles need to be explored to prove how reliable the first experiment was.

    Also, I've never known common electromagnetism to affect gravity. It seems to be a completely separate force, like how my muscles can counter gravity, yet they are not related to gravity. 
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: Test to Prove Gravity
    « Reply #7 on: January 26, 2024, 04:55:48 PM »
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  • But there is another secret being kept from humanity. I will keep that for another post.

    Cliffhanger into the weekend.  


    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Test to Prove Gravity
    « Reply #8 on: April 26, 2024, 06:24:26 PM »
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  • I happened across this video and was curious what CERN was up to. What I was not expecting to see was a scientific experiment proving that gravity acts on gas particles in a vacuum. The data showed a higher rate of gas particle (in this case anti hydrogen) impact with the bottom than the top of the vacuum chamber. They did not know which end would have more impacts because they did not know if gravity would repel antimatter instead of attracting it like ordinary matter. Scale up that experiment to a vacuum chamber tube that is a few hundred miles tall, and you'll likely find a very high density of gas at the bottom and practically nothing at the top. This video should be no NASA/CERN deception because the purpose of the experiment wasn't to prove gravity pulls the atmosphere down even if there's not container to keep it from escaping. No hard shell dome type of firmament should be required to keep earth's atmosphere around the planet.

    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: Test to Prove Gravity
    « Reply #9 on: April 27, 2024, 02:40:40 AM »
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  • ... antimatter ...
    You've gone off the deep end man... 

    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Test to Prove Gravity
    « Reply #10 on: April 27, 2024, 08:55:57 AM »
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  • Explain to me what antimatter is and why it can't exist.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"


    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Test to Prove Gravity
    « Reply #11 on: April 27, 2024, 10:28:04 AM »
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  • Non-existence exists = antimatter?  
    Do negative numbers exist?

    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Test to Prove Gravity
    « Reply #12 on: April 27, 2024, 11:27:27 AM »
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  • Guessing doesn't help. Condemn it if you know what it is.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Test to Prove Gravity
    « Reply #13 on: April 28, 2024, 04:06:20 AM »
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  • Watch gravity pull two metal balls together

    Sounds like another Foucault Pendulum. Here is a question, 
    In a vacuum a feather and a cannon ball will hit the ground together.
    But more than that, the cannon ball does not attract the feather.
    What does that tell you.

    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Test to Prove Gravity
    « Reply #14 on: April 29, 2024, 09:30:58 PM »
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  • What does that tell you.
    It doesn't tell me that other variables and considerations are ruled out. How precise was the measurement to detect if the feather was attracted to the cannon ball? The video I posted showed how hard it is to get a steady reading on that setup that supposedly proves gravity because of how weak the force is. It took a long time for the thing to start settling in a noticeably different direction, much longer than it would take the ball and feather to hit the ground even if dropped from a skyscraper. The canon ball is 0.000000000000000000000000045% of the supposed weight of the earth, so you can imagine how weak the force of attraction between the feather and ball would be.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"