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Author Topic: Test GE and FE  (Read 7332 times)

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Offline Anne Evergreen

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Re: Test GE and FE
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2021, 11:33:53 AM »
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  • I didn't give you a downvote.

    Reading the above, I realized it could be misunderstood.
    Thank-you, that's very kind. But to be honest, I take voting with a grain of salt. It's a type of social credit score. Not interested. I might give an upvote to a great post, and some jerk with an axe to grind comes along and adds a downvote. So the votes here may or may not be accurate. Some people will down vote just because they can, or because they have a bee in their bonnet.

    Years ago in forum settings there was no such thing as voting or scores. People figured out for themselves what a worthy post was or not, and that was that. After awhile you can see who is worth paying attention to, or not. 

    It's the younger generations brought up on FB and Instagram, etc., that rely on their "likes," to feed their fragile ego. ;)
    "The world is thy ship, and not thy home."--The Little Flower


    Offline Dankward

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    Re: Test GE and FE
    « Reply #16 on: December 25, 2021, 05:20:53 AM »
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  • You can test GE vs FE easily if you climb a small hill or mountain.

    On FE, the horizon should be at the same level as your eye level. It should lay in the same vertical plane than the vanishing point.

    On GE, the horizon should dip below your eye level. It shoud lay below the vertical plane of your vanishing point.

    So we use the water level:


    Wasn't that easy? On FE, the horizon should converge with the water level.


    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Test GE and FE
    « Reply #17 on: December 26, 2021, 01:55:05 PM »
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  • @ 42oN, at solar noon, the angle of inclination to the sun was 26o using a theodolite app.

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Test GE and FE
    « Reply #18 on: December 26, 2021, 02:08:09 PM »
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  • The sky is overcast where I live, unfortunately.
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline bodeens

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    Re: Test GE and FE
    « Reply #19 on: December 26, 2021, 04:48:35 PM »
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  • Overcast today for me as well.
    Regard all of my posts as unfounded slander, heresy, theologically specious etc
    I accept Church teaching on Implicit Baptism of Desire.
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    Offline Dingbat

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    Re: Test GE and FE
    « Reply #20 on: December 26, 2021, 04:54:22 PM »
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  • The sky is overcast where I live, unfortunately.
    Same here! :facepalm:

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Test GE and FE
    « Reply #21 on: December 26, 2021, 05:55:45 PM »
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  • No assumption.

    Then the experiment is wothless.  This assumes that the rays of the sun are parallel when they arrive the earth from millions of miles away and an enormous star.  But if the sun is about 3,000 miles away and much smaller (e.g. 32 miles in diamater), as the FEs hold, then the rays would not be parallel and the experiment inconclusive.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Test GE and FE
    « Reply #22 on: December 26, 2021, 05:59:32 PM »
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  • Wasn't that easy? On FE, the horizon should converge with the water level.

    False.  Constant fallacies from the globers.  Horizon line is indeterminate depending on atmospheric conditions and depending on the distance whatever equipment taking the photo can actually reach.  Footage taken from high altitudes 120,000 feet by an amateur balloon showed the horizon at eye level.  And there's very little atmospheric distortion at that height.  You can argue that it's inconclusive because you can't see curvature even from that level, but to claim that curvature can be detected from the earth, even from the highest mountain is absurd.

    Even your guru Neil de Grasse Tyson says you can't see any curvature from even the height of the Red Bull jump (which was 127,000 feet).

    I'm just tired of having the same fallacious argument rehashed over and over again.

    You find one picture that you falsely interpret and do the mic drop, but completely ignore the hundreds of experiments done by FEs which show no curvature from many miles away.  Globers dismiss that as refraction (without doing any of the math) and even mirages, but then pretend there's no such thing as refraction and atmospheric phenomena when they present their isolated "slam dunk" proof picture.


    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Test GE and FE
    « Reply #23 on: December 26, 2021, 06:10:19 PM »
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  • Then the experiment is wothless.  This assumes that the rays of the sun are parallel when they arrive the earth from millions of miles away and an enormous star.  But if the sun is about 3,000 miles away and much smaller (e.g. 32 miles in diamater), as the FEs hold, then the rays would not be parallel and the experiment inconclusive.

    No Laddy, no assumption about the distance to the sun is necessary if you take several observations.

    You don't have to assume the sun is "far" nor do you have to assume the sun is 3000 miles away.

    You calculate it from the data.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Test GE and FE
    « Reply #24 on: December 26, 2021, 06:13:47 PM »
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  • If they wanted to end this debate very quickly, all they would need to do is take a few of the leading flat earthers on a flight across Antarctica and come across the other side.  Let everybody take their equipment with them, video equipment, GPS equpment, anything they wanted.

    Or they could take them down to observe the actual 24-hour sun.

    Why all the fake footage from the globers?  There's one time-lapse video alleging to show this that is proven to be an obvious fake.  Why did they need to fake it when they could just do a real video?  PBS / Discover were also caught hoaxing and faking a "helicopter" test when they could have just done it normally.  Why?

    NASA has been caught hundreds of times faking footage from "space" (on the "ISS").  Why?

    I saw a group of engineers from Latin America conduct an experiment with high-precision GPS equipment demonstrating that two very tall buildings many miles apart, which should have had the tops farther apart than their bottoms given globe earth theory, were instead completely parallel (tops and bottoms exactly the same distance apart).

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Test GE and FE
    « Reply #25 on: December 26, 2021, 06:24:04 PM »
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  • If they wanted to end this debate very quickly, all they would need to do is take a few of the leading flat earthers on a flight across Antarctica and come across the other side.  Let everybody take their equipment with them, video equipment, GPS equpment, anything they wanted.

    Or they could take them down to observe the actual 24-hour sun.

    Why all the fake footage from the globers?  There's one time-lapse video alleging to show this that is proven to be an obvious fake.  Why did they need to fake it when they could just do a real video?  PBS / Discover were also caught hoaxing and faking a "helicopter" test when they could have just done it normally.  Why?

    NASA has been caught hundreds of times faking footage from "space" (on the "ISS").  Why?

    I saw a group of engineers from Latin America conduct an experiment with high-precision GPS equipment demonstrating that two very tall buildings many miles apart, which should have had the tops farther apart than their bottoms given globe earth theory, were instead completely parallel (tops and bottoms exactly the same distance apart).


    I agree. Well said.

    I might start a thread later: "If we're on a globe, with gravity and all that, why not use rockets to send men to space? Maybe build a space station? Even if the Van Allen Belts prevent humans visiting other "planets" (again, this is assuming the Globers are correct), A) we should be able to send unmanned probes there, and B) we should be able to hang out in Low Earth Orbit.

    I know what many are thinking "Like, HELLO? Ever heard of NASA?"

    But that's my point: NASA (and the other space agencies as well) is a complete scam organization. They constantly fake everything. There is no proof we've even made it to "low earth orbit". It's all zero-G flights (the "vomit comet"), underwater footage, harnesses, green screens, and CGI work. That's it. NASA has a huge budget too, and I must say they don't even do a very good job with that money.

    I am grateful for various Flat Earth videos for pointing out something I always noticed, but never had a problem with: all the "rocket launches" always look like a rainbow. They are clearly not going very high, and they just dump in the ocean somewhere. It's ridiculous. It's as if they know there's a Firmament there, and they don't want to *thud* into it. I'm sorry, but they HAVE no good excuse. They're taking a "hard right" way too soon, into thick atmosphere. You'd want to cut through that atmosphere as directly as possible, according to their beliefs and worldview. Even if you wanted to start curving for some reason, you'd do that later. Imagine flying an airplane directly into a hurricane, instead of going around it. That's essentially what those launch rockets are doing.

    Another thing: rockets couldn't work in the vacuum space. Probably not even well before space proper. Once you have no air, there's nothing for the explosion to "thrust" against to propel you forward. Rockets of all sizes work here on earth, because we have AIR EVERYWHERE.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Test GE and FE
    « Reply #26 on: December 26, 2021, 06:49:11 PM »
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  • No Laddy, no assumption about the distance to the sun is necessary if you take several observations.

    You don't have to assume the sun is "far" nor do you have to assume the sun is 3000 miles away.

    You calculate it from the data.

    No you can't.  If the sun were only slightly bigger than the earth, and not very far way, the rays would come in parallel.  Even the guy in the OP, all he could claim was that the rays were close to 90+ regardless of the latitude.  He concluded that it was "immensely far away", which absolutely cannot be concluded.  Sun could just be somewhat bigger than the earth and much less far way.  It's a function of the size and distance.

    And the imprecise measurements taken by guys with tape measures were pretty close to what's predicted by the FE theory regarding the distance.  But the guy in the video didn't actually indicate how far "off" they were.  Was it that the measurements were 3 degres off for FE and 1 degree off for "parallel".  But parallel rays could be caused by many permutations of size and distance.  That's why the estimates of the size of the sun and its distance from the earth have  varied widely, starting from one million miles to something like 9-10 million miles, to 30, to 50, to 67, to 93.

    I notice that the guy in the OP video never bothered to give the numbers that readings were off from the FE expectation, but the green lines he drew looked pretty darn close to the grey lines expected.  They were not that far off by any stretch, and he didn't actually bother to give the numbers.  Then he claimed they were within 1 degree of what would be expected if the rays were coming in at 90 degree angles to the surface on a globe.  So, what, were they 2 or 3 degrees off from FE?  What's the degree of precision and the margin of error given the fact that these were a bunch of guys with tape measures.  If you're off by 1/8th of an inch in measuring that way, that's plenty to badly skew the results.  In the end, the readings looked pretty darn close, close enough given the precision instruments they were using (i.e. tape measures).  If either their measurement of the object or of the shadow were even 1/8th or 1/16th of an inch off, given the scale, that kind of test is worthless.

    And even IF the angles are off, all that means is that the 3,000 miles estimate of FE was somewhat off.  How far off?  Who knows?  All he was trying to do was falsify a particular FE estimate and did not positively prove or establish anything about the actual size and distance.  Because you can't with this kind of experiment.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Test GE and FE
    « Reply #27 on: December 26, 2021, 07:22:40 PM »
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  • Here's how close the two models can be ...


    To think that a few guys with tape measures can determine the correct model is ludicrous.

    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Test GE and FE
    « Reply #28 on: December 26, 2021, 07:29:22 PM »
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  • No you can't.

    Well, you're wrong. No assumption is necessary.

    If we had several measurements, we could calculate the curvature of the earth according to those measurements. Perhaps that curvature is zero? That would come out of the calculations.

    Might take more than a few measurements to distinguish FE/GE.

    Too bad nobody else could observe the world and take a simple measurement.

    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Test GE and FE
    « Reply #29 on: December 26, 2021, 07:47:37 PM »
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  • Another thing: rockets couldn't work in the vacuum space. Probably not even well before space proper. Once you have no air, there's nothing for the explosion to "thrust" against to propel you forward. Rockets of all sizes work here on earth, because we have AIR EVERYWHERE.

    Rockets work on the principle of conservation of momentum.

    If you shoot a gun, the gun recoils to offset the momentum imparted to the bullet. There would be recoil in a vacuum.

    Same with rockets. They expel exhaust gas at high speed, providing momentum in the opposite direction.