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Author Topic: Sungenis nonsense - flat earth  (Read 2649 times)

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Offline kiwiboy

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Re: Sungenis nonsense - flat earth
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2018, 04:11:15 AM »
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    • Quote from: Neil Obstat on March 08, 2018, 12:31:01 PM
    .
    The "California beach one" is so bad it's ridiculous (shot near Santa Barbara showing Channel Islands).
    They've got their elevations all wrong and they try to cut out parts of shots to make them appear other than they really did.
    .
    I have already gone through the whole thing pointing out the errors and deceptions.
    .


    Neil,
    for the millioneth time, you did not. You made some adjustments and yet failed to account for over 500 feet of the mountain. Then, everytime you were asked more, you could never provide a reference to your quote where you said you gave better explanations.
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    Eclipses neither prove nor disprove the flat earth.

    "As for whether or not I work for NASA, I'm sorry, but I fail to understand what that could possibly have to do with anything" Neil Obstat, 08-03-2017

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Sungenis nonsense - flat earth
    « Reply #16 on: March 09, 2018, 11:00:03 AM »
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    • Sungenis' proofs for earth being a globe are based 100% on pagans.  Sungenis quotes ad nauseum people like Stephen Hawking on back to Pythagoras. Yet, he condemns Copernicanism.  Now, while Sungenis uses Scripture and Fathers to prove earth is stationary, he fails to use Scripture and Fathers to prove earth is a globe.  Isn't that fascinating? Sungenis uses Fathers to prove the earth is stationary, vehemently insists earth is a globe and flat earthers are stupid, but fails to use the Fathers to prove earth is a globe. 

    The fact that Sungenis quotes entirely from pagans to prove a stationary globe is bad enough.  But that he fails to provide a single Catholic teaching on why earth is a globe is a glaring omission that makes him less than trustworthy.  Why insist earth is a globe if all you have is pagan quotes to support it?  Is Sungenis not supposed to be Catholic?  Has he not already used Catholic sources to prove a stationary earth?  Why not prove earth is a sphere with Catholic sources, Mr Sungenis? 

    He doesn't because he can't.  Catholic sources for explaining the spherical earth are non-existent.

    So next time Sungenis rails against flat earthers, remember, he has no Catholic sources explaining how and why earth is a sphere. 
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    Offline kiwiboy

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    Re: Sungenis nonsense - flat earth
    « Reply #17 on: March 09, 2018, 12:59:35 PM »
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    • Quote from: An even Seven on March 09, 2018, 12:17:40 PM
    Just about as non-existent as Catholic sources explaining the flat Earth.

    but they condemned the flat earth clearly.

    Despite all your manipulations, the quotes provided by flat earthers still stand strong.
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    Eclipses neither prove nor disprove the flat earth.

    "As for whether or not I work for NASA, I'm sorry, but I fail to understand what that could possibly have to do with anything" Neil Obstat, 08-03-2017

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Sungenis nonsense - flat earth
    « Reply #18 on: March 09, 2018, 01:22:14 PM »
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    • Quote from: An even Seven on March 09, 2018, 12:17:40 PM
    Just about as non-existent as Catholic sources explaining the flat Earth.
    Uh, no.  I've personally posted several. 
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    Offline happenby

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    Re: Sungenis nonsense - flat earth
    « Reply #19 on: March 09, 2018, 01:55:36 PM »
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    • Quote from: An even Seven on March 09, 2018, 01:45:32 PM
    Nope.
    Yes, I have.  I've posted quotes from Lactanctius, Severian, Origen, Cosmas, Scripture, Methodius, St. John Chrysostom, St. Augustine, St. Jerome and others.  I have many more, yet, I'm blocked at every turn by people who would rather give me a bad time than have a reasonable discussion.  
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    Offline happenby

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    Re: Sungenis nonsense - flat earth
    « Reply #20 on: March 09, 2018, 03:03:14 PM »
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    • Quote from: An even Seven on March 09, 2018, 02:26:05 PM
    Like I said before on the thread I started for you. Put them in a nice, easy-to-reference, post or link (maybe the library section) so that we can see them. I'd like to look at all the evidence together, that you have, that shows we must believe in flat Earth as an official Teaching of the Catholic Church; i.e. a Catholic Teaching we may NOT disagree with.
    You can always disagree with Church teaching.  It just isn't a good idea.  I will try to get some stuff up in the library.  You can also go to http://flatearthtrads.forumga.net/, although everything isn't there yet, either.  It's just really hard to update a web page, manage a Facebook page, post on Cathinfo, write a book and do research, all at the same time.  I'd hoped to gather assistant researchers here, and while some have come through, the cold shoulder isn't helping.  To see that this is a Catholic teaching you really wouldn't want to disagree with, you'll have to wait for the book.  I say "really wouldn't want to disagree with" because even if you show someone that there is no such thing as baptism of desire, or talk about VII or about the SSPX, or Resistance, or Sedevacantism, there's always someone out there to tell you what you're saying isn't Church teaching.  Lowering the bar, yet providing plenty of information makes it possible for people to pray about, to look into it further and to come to a conclusion. Hopefully, the truth.        
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    Offline kiwiboy

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    Re: Sungenis nonsense - flat earth
    « Reply #21 on: March 09, 2018, 04:11:11 PM »
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    • Quote from: An even Seven on March 09, 2018, 01:45:08 PM
    Which ones? The ones from the link that you provide that shows a few Fathers who simply held the opinion that the Earth is flat? Doesn't prove anything, least of all that they taught it as important for our spiritual edification.

    Proves that most Fathers thought the earth was flat and the globe was an error. None taught the flat earth was an error, which is what you are saying.
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    Eclipses neither prove nor disprove the flat earth.

    "As for whether or not I work for NASA, I'm sorry, but I fail to understand what that could possibly have to do with anything" Neil Obstat, 08-03-2017

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Sungenis nonsense - flat earth
    « Reply #22 on: March 09, 2018, 05:48:03 PM »
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    • Quote from: kiwiboy on March 09, 2018, 04:11:11 PM
    Proves that most Fathers thought the earth was flat and the globe was an error. None taught the flat earth was an error, which is what you are saying.
    No Father taught earth is a globe, let alone to the extent of tying cosmology and metaphysics to liturgy, based on Scripture.  Woefully devoid of content, the globe earth falls flat again.   
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Sungenis nonsense - flat earth
    « Reply #23 on: March 09, 2018, 11:18:20 PM »
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    • How does the earth’s shape help us to grow in the love of Christ?  How does it convert sinners and free the souls from purgatory?  

    It is not that important.  
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    Offline roscoe

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    Re: Sungenis nonsense - flat earth
    « Reply #24 on: March 09, 2018, 11:31:54 PM »
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    • E rev around S :sleep:
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    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Sungenis nonsense - flat earth
    « Reply #25 on: March 10, 2018, 07:46:51 AM »
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    • Quote from: An even Seven on March 10, 2018, 07:35:33 AM
    The idea that "most Fathers thought the earth was flat" does not prove that they thought "the globe is an error". Lactantius is the only one that thought it was erroneous. I am not saying that anyone taught that the flat earth was an error. You must never read any posts of mine on this topic.
    Again, I believe that flat Earth is not a teaching of the Church nor was it considered important for salvation by the Fathers. I also believe that it's at least schismatic to condemn others who don't believe in a flat Earth. I also believe worrying about this topic too much is distracting from the faith and consequently, probably a tool of the devil.

    Heh.  I think I'm the only one who reads anyone's posts. 


    Thanks for writing, Seven.  I appreciate your concerns.     
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    Offline happenby

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    Re: Sungenis nonsense - flat earth
    « Reply #26 on: March 10, 2018, 09:58:51 AM »
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    • Quote from: An even Seven on March 10, 2018, 09:37:32 AM
    What's your book going to be about?
    One is on cosmology.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Sungenis nonsense - flat earth
    « Reply #27 on: March 10, 2018, 10:02:51 AM »
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    • I just think that there's a huge difference between believing that the earth is flat and TEACHING it ... as doctrine.

    It's clear that most of the Fathers thought the earth is flat; what's unclear is whether they were teaching it, and in particular teaching it as if it were revealed traditional doctrine.
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    Offline aryzia

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    Re: Sungenis nonsense - flat earth
    « Reply #28 on: March 10, 2018, 11:32:26 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on March 10, 2018, 10:02:51 AM
    I just think that there's a huge difference between believing that the earth is flat and TEACHING it ... as doctrine.

    It's clear that most of the Fathers thought the earth is flat; what's unclear is whether they were teaching it, and in particular teaching it as if it were revealed traditional doctrine.
    If Scripture says earth is flat, it's true. If flat earth is based on Scripture, it's a teaching. If the Fathers taught it, based on Scripture, it's a teaching. If the contrary pagan theory was condemned by the Church, we can know what our world is not. If empirical science proves flat earth and it doesn't contradict Scripture or the Church, it's a logical conclusion it must be true. If all aspects of flat earth, spiritual, scientific, logical, physical, and natural agree on flat earth, it must be true. And if true, it's a teaching. Because Christ is truth. When collected together, proofs continue to line up with flat earth and do not line up with the past or present teaching that earth is a moving globe. Although the ifs remain, and are not absolutely proven, we can still conclude we are on the track of Catholic teaching. It would be error to say that if it's true, but not a specifically stated dogma, it cannot be Catholic teaching. Because Christ is truth.
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    Offline happenby

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    Re: Sungenis nonsense - flat earth
    « Reply #29 on: March 10, 2018, 12:22:07 PM »
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    • Quote from: An even Seven on March 10, 2018, 11:32:12 AM
    I guess if we disagree on anything, in this matter, it's the underlined above. I agree that it seems that a good number of the Fathers, maybe most, believed the Earth was flat; but why wouldn't they, it was the prevailing science of the day. I think it's very clear that they weren't teaching it and even clearer that they didn't believe it was part of Tradition. In fact, searching the Fathers who spoke on this subject and one can only find Lactantius in clear opposition to the Globe Earth.
    I do find what he says here above, in all its harshness, ironic, because of what he says in Chapter 3 of the same book.He is clearly saying that one should not say they have certain knowledge of the things like he mentioned earlier in the paragraph, which FE is surely in the same category, if it may happen to be later refuted. Yet later in Ch 24 he acts as if he has certain knowledge about antipodes and the shape of the Earth.
    Although I personally have drawn a conclusion and consider flat earth to be a teaching, it is certainly important to remain open and delve into these matters before insisting earth is a globe and condemning people for saying they don't believe modern science's doctrines.  In a way, that's all flat earthers ever wanted, to share what amounts to a huge problem and discuss it for its sake; to compare saints, gather Scripture quotes, weigh the science. Many won't draw the same conclusion I have, but we flat earthers are keenly aware of the scope of the lies indoctrinating Christendom and just want to open the windows for some cosmological fresh air. Aryzia pointed out something all flat earthers seem to know instinctively: Truth may be fleeting, but its trajectory is undeniable. 
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