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Author Topic: Sun and Earth  (Read 17769 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Sun and Earth
« Reply #55 on: July 18, 2022, 06:31:57 AM »
The M&M experiment of 1887 did not show the 30kms/s 'fringe' expected if the Earth orbits the sun. All it showed was 5kms/s. This 5kms/s was brought down further after more tests, a 'fringe' of inertia up to 98% correct expected if the earth rotated, or if the universe rotated. Heliocentrism needed the goose and the gander (30kms/s) result, but geocentrism needed just the gander (-5kms/s), a rotational inertia. So, the M&M test proved geocentrism,

I think I recall something about this.  As I briefly understand it, he's saying that if in fact M&M had been invalidated due to the alleged "Lorentz contraction" or else relativity, then M&M should have shown 0 movement.  Or did I misread that or misremember it?

Re: Sun and Earth
« Reply #56 on: July 18, 2022, 07:19:14 AM »
I think I recall something about this.  As I briefly understand it, he's saying that if in fact M&M had been invalidated due to the alleged "Lorentz contraction" or else relativity, then M&M should have shown 0 movement.  Or did I misread that or misremember it?

With their ether drag theory for an orbiting Earth redundant, the Earthmovers had to get the Earth orbiting again, by way of another ad hoc of course.  And that is why in 1892, a ‘brilliant’ Irishman called George Fitzgerald (1851-1901) suggested that all matter experiences a physical contraction as the Earth forces its way through the stationary ether, and it was this contraction that caused the F-arm of the interferometer to shrink and thus cause the resistance found.

‘Hold on a minute’ interrupts a first-year science student when discussing this nonsense at his university physics class in Trinity College Dublin. ‘We can easily check this out simply by measuring the F-arm and comparing its length with the S-arm and if one is shorter than the other you have a viable theory, yes?’ ‘Actually no,’ answers Mr Fitzgerald, ‘You see the ruler you measure with, will also shrink exactly the same extent as the F-arm, and because both will shrink the same relative to each other that difference in lengths won’t be detectable.’ ‘What’ exclaims our student, ‘even if I use a ruler made out of the hardest tungsten? ‘Yes, it would,’ says Fitzgerald with a straight face, ‘the mathematics show they will always be the same.’ ‘But that surely is nonsense,’ the student retorts. Fitzgerald replies: ‘Obviously my boy, you are not cut out to be a theoretical physicist, so I recommend you turn to some other career, like farming.’ And if you think he exaggerates Einstein proposed a 50% shrinkage. That, dear reader; is the ‘length’ the Earthmovers go to in order to keep the Earth moving.

In 1897, Michelson summarised the situation after his experiment failed to fin an orbiting Earth.as follows: ‘In any case we are driven to extraordinary consequences and the choice lies between these three:

1) The Earth passes through the ether (or rather allows the ether to pass through its entire mass) without appreciable influence.
2) The length of all bodies is altered (equally) by their motion through ether.
3) The Earth in motion drags with it the ether even at distances of many thousands of kilometres from its surface.’ - Swenson: Ethereal Aether, p.118.

Michelson’s hypothesis number two, the shrinking arms one, the one that came out of the same stable as Alice in Wonderland, was taken up in 1904 by the Dutch physicist, Hendrik A. Lorentz (1853-1928), and, although he could give no physical cause for it, he supposedly showed ‘mathematically’ that it was consistent with the governing equations - the electromagnetic equations. These figures had electromagnetic forces causing the moving particles of matter to bind together, even though there was no way of demonstrating his theory. Lorentz however, not being one to seek a reputation for nonsense, admitted later his equations had been extrapolated, i.e., if you know the answer first, then you can make up any mathematics that will give you that answer.  Lorentz is also quoted asserting; ‘Briefly, everything occurs as if the earth is at rest.’ 

 Michelson, we see, was desperate. His first conclusion is a viable theory if the smaller 3.5kms/s was not found. His second option is of course the Irishman Fitzgerald’s wacky ad hoc. For his third option he chooses the ether-drag theory that Sir Oliver Lodge seems to have falsified five years earlier in 1892. Incredibly however - for these men were after all, supposed to be the world’s leading physicists - Michelson omitted a fourth logical possibility based on the outcome of the experiment; 4) that the Earth does not move in orbit, but that the geocentric universe rotating around the stationary Earth every day could well be the reason for the interferometer’s original 3.5 kms/s interference found (a speed later found in 1925 to be 98% expected from rotation). Now unless all options are considered, the test-results are not being addressed according to the true scientific method.



Re: Sun and Earth
« Reply #57 on: July 28, 2022, 05:47:24 PM »

Re: Sun and Earth
« Reply #58 on: August 02, 2022, 05:41:22 PM »

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Sun and Earth
« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2022, 08:27:40 PM »
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There are only two possibilities: 1) St. Robert Bellarmine and the members of the Holy Office were correct that geocentrism is de fide; in that case, Pope Benedict XV was wrong (and was teaching heresy) when stating that the Earth may not be the center of the universe;
To be fair, if a pope uses "may not" in an encyclical, that's hardly a definitive teaching.  Not all encyclicals are infallible, by nature.  It depends how they are written.  Benedict's "openness to science" (similar to Pius XII on theistic evolution) is neither a teaching, nor a decisive statement.  In my opinion, both were horribly wrong for opening pandora's box but there is no authoritative nature in any of this.  In other words, Benedict XV was just wrong (as was Pius XII) and St Robert and company are still correct.


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or 2) Pope Benedict XV was correct that the issue has not yet been settled (and the Earth might not be the center) and St. Robert Bellarmine, many theologians of the Holy Office and the Holy Office’s 1633 sentence against Galileo, etc. were therefore wrong for declaring heliocentrism to be heretical and considering geocentrism to be de fide.
The Holy Office of 1633 is correct. 
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If #1 is true, that means that Pope Benedict XV was teaching heresy in his encyclical.  It also means that he and other numerous other popes (as will be explained below) were ignorant of the true theological status of geocentrism.
No, the 3rd possibility is that Benedict XV, like Pius XII, were either liberal or listened to liberal advice.  Their encyclicals were not heretical and neither were they authoritative.  When speaking on science, you can't judge such as a "teaching" in the same way as an encyclical on the sacraments.  Infallibility only protects faith/morals.  The matters of science (those discussed in the Bible) are part of Faith but also outside of it.

My opinion = they were convinced that "new facts" had emerged to possibly change the Church's views.  Theology cannot change, but science can still discover.  So since Faith and Reason are not in opposition, it is *possible* for new facts to emerge which can partially (but not substantially) change the Church's views...only in the realm of science.  That's why Benedict used "may" to denote theory and also why Pius XII said that "further investigation" is allowed on evolution.

But we know now that these "new facts" are lies and so all of this is water under the bridge.  We return to the Church Fathers and 1633 as our authority.