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Author Topic: Sun and Earth  (Read 18088 times)

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Re: Sun and Earth
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2022, 03:10:40 PM »
I am not at all surprised to see Dimonds( Diamonds?)-- libelers of Popes Leo XIII, Pius XII & Card Rampolla-- pushing a dogmatic Geo-centrism...

What this has to do w/ 'bod' is  :confused:

Re: Sun and Earth
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2022, 04:18:36 PM »
I am not at all surprised to see Dimonds( Diamonds?)-- libelers of Popes Leo XIII, Pius XII & Card Rampolla-- pushing a dogmatic Geo-centrism...

What this has to do w/ 'bod' is  :confused:

No Roscoe, the Dimonds are on your side, they try to show that the 1616 decree and the confirmation of its authority by Pope Urban VIII in 1633 and by the Holy Office in 1820 meant nothing by way of Pope Benedict XV's 1921 encyclical on Dante In Praeclara Summorum.
First a quote from this encyclical:

'If the progress of science showed later that that conception of the world rested on no sure foundation, that the spheres imagined by our ancestors did not exist, that nature, the number and course of the planets and stars, are not indeed as they were then thought to be, still the fundamental principle remained that the universe, whatever be the order that sustains it in its parts, is the work of the creating and preserving sign of Omnipotent God, who moves and governs all, and whose glory shines in a part more or less elsewhere: and though this Earth on which we live may not be the centre of the universe as at one time was thought, it was the scene of the original happiness of our first ancestors, witness of their unhappy fall, as too of the Redemption of mankind through the Passion and Death of Jesus Christ.'

The Dimonds say:
Here we see Pope Benedict XV, in a 1921 encyclical, declare that “this Earth on which we live may not be the center of the universe as at one time was thought.”  In all the discussions of the issue with which I’m familiar, I’ve never seen the above quotation from Pope Benedict XV brought forward.  People such as John Daly, Solange Hertz, Paula Haigh, etc., who have spent much time on this issue, were obviously unaware of this quotation.

There are only two possibilities: 1) St. Robert Bellarmine and the members of the Holy Office were correct that geocentrism is de fide; in that case, Pope Benedict XV was wrong (and was teaching heresy) when stating that the Earth may not be the center of the universe; or 2) Pope Benedict XV was correct that the issue has not yet been settled (and the Earth might not be the center) and St. Robert Bellarmine, many theologians of the Holy Office and the Holy Office’s 1633 sentence against Galileo, etc. were therefore wrong for declaring heliocentrism to be heretical and considering geocentrism to be de fide.

If #1 is true, that means that Pope Benedict XV was teaching heresy in his encyclical.  It also means that he and other numerous other popes (as will be explained below) were ignorant of the true theological status of geocentrism.

My answer to this is:
It has been asserted by certain men, like the Dimond brothers, that the above encyclical shows the 1616 edict was not an irreversible (infallible) decree because Benedict XV did not confirm a geocentric universe. The Pope was of course referring to Einstein’s theory of relativity of his time as the progress of science that held ‘the world rested on no sure foundation.’ In other words, a geocentric universe was still as viable as a heliocentric one. Moreover, the Ptolemaic system of the universe was the universe of Dante, and yes, the Pope was right about it no longer being the true system. Given the fact that in his time geocentrism was still considered falsified by the Jesuits surrounding him, one surely would have expected the Pope to say the Earth ‘is not at the centre.’ But he did not, nor that the sun does not orbit the Earth, leaving the 1616 decree as defined and declared. One could equally say Pope Benedict XV with the words ‘may not be’ did not accept the physical non-violent heliocentrism ‘of modern astronomers’ insisted on by the Holy Office from 1820.


Re: Sun and Earth
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2022, 04:40:07 PM »
When it comes down to it, I believe geocentrism is 100% true. I think Dr. Sugenis is correct in noting that the Church Fathers are unanimous on the fact that the Earth is the center of the universe (His Geocentrism 101 book is quite good). The Dimonds have a valid point here, especially when utilized for the argument that not everything the Holy Office states is de fide; but, this is one of those things where the teachings drawn from Holy Scripture and the Fathers themselves go against a Heliocentric universe.

On top of that, you have the anti-Creationist cosmology that developed out of the theories of Copernicus and co. that have done significant damage.

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Re: Sun and Earth
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2022, 04:58:57 PM »
the science of cosmology now admits that Bradley’s 1726 find of stellar aberration, Bessell’s 1838 find of stellar parallax, and Foucault’s 1851 pendulum proved nothing as a geocentric universe can explain all of the above.


For me, I was convinced about geocentrism until I learned about stellar parallax. I think a lot of the other data points towards geocentrism except that, and I have never heard any response to it. In Sungenis's video, his explanation was that the whole universe is moving in a toroidal orbit around the earth (just going from memory here). This makes no sense because the whole universe isn't able to go anywhere -- by definition, there's nowhere for it to go!

Re: Sun and Earth
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2022, 05:02:35 PM »

For me, I was convinced about geocentrism until I learned about stellar parallax. I think a lot of the other data points towards geocentrism except that, and I have never heard any response to it. In Sungenis's video, his explanation was that the whole universe is moving in a toroidal orbit around the earth (just going from memory here). This makes no sense because the whole universe isn't able to go anywhere -- by definition, there's nowhere for it to go!
Perhaps he meant the observable objects within the universe move in a toroidal orbit? Given that the background of the universe, truly, wouldn't move into nothingness.