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Author Topic: Strongly Leaning Flat Earth  (Read 912 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Strongly Leaning Flat Earth
« on: March 12, 2018, 09:27:37 AM »
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  • So, when I first started looking into flat earth, I didn't think it likely that I would come around to accepting it.

    But the evidence seems to be stacking up strongly in favor of flat earth.

    1 ) cities, mountains, other objects that are clearly visible (and obviously not just refraction or "mirage") from distances at which globe earth math would make it impossible

    2 ) strong evidence of NASA (and SpaceX) fakery

    3 ) sun spots on the top of clouds when sun is allegedly 93 million miles away

    4 ) lots of independent (not NASA controlled) footage from high enough where curvature should be visible ... and yet it's not, and where the horizon remains at eye level

    5 ) flight plans that don't make any sense except for against a flat earth map

    6 ) prohibition of free Antarctic exploration

    7 ) moonlight being cooler than surrounding area

    8 ) surveyors and engineers ignoring earth curvature

    9) NASA images of globe earth are clearly (and admittedly CGI) ... with differing shapes of continents, cut-and-paste repeated cloud patterns, no satellites visible

    10) fake Mars rover pictures, obvious green-screened and otherwise faked "astronaut" footage

    11) Piccard's pre-NASA statement that the earth looks like a circular disc with upturned edges

    12) sun changing size in the sky when it's allegedly 93 million miles away

    [this is just off the top of my head, as I'm sure there's more]

    On the globe earth side, I see ...

    1) the Antarctica problem ... long periods of sunlight where there should be less sunlight according to a flat earth model

    2) alleged flights over Antarctica

    So the Antarctica problems remains the final obstacle to my being able to completely embrace flat earth.

    So, flat earthers, what do you say about the Antarctica issue?  If the circuмference of the Antarctica is so big, why is there so much sunlight during "Southern Hemisphere" summer?  Is light bouncing off the dome or something?



    Offline happenby

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    Re: Strongly Leaning Flat Earth
    « Reply #1 on: March 12, 2018, 10:15:32 AM »
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  • So, when I first started looking into flat earth, I didn't think it likely that I would come around to accepting it.

    But the evidence seems to be stacking up strongly in favor of flat earth.

    1 ) cities, mountains, other objects that are clearly visible (and obviously not just refraction or "mirage") from distances at which globe earth math would make it impossible

    2 ) strong evidence of NASA (and SpaceX) fakery

    3 ) sun spots on the top of clouds when sun is allegedly 93 million miles away

    4 ) lots of independent (not NASA controlled) footage from high enough where curvature should be visible ... and yet it's not, and where the horizon remains at eye level

    5 ) flight plans that don't make any sense except for against a flat earth map

    6 ) prohibition of free Antarctic exploration

    7 ) moonlight being cooler than surrounding area

    8 ) surveyors and engineers ignoring earth curvature

    9) NASA images of globe earth are clearly (and admittedly CGI) ... with differing shapes of continents, cut-and-paste repeated cloud patterns, no satellites visible

    10) fake Mars rover pictures, obvious green-screened and otherwise faked "astronaut" footage

    11) Piccard's pre-NASA statement that the earth looks like a circular disc with upturned edges

    12) sun changing size in the sky when it's allegedly 93 million miles away

    [this is just off the top of my head, as I'm sure there's more]

    On the globe earth side, I see ...

    1) the Antarctica problem ... long periods of sunlight where there should be less sunlight according to a flat earth model

    2) alleged flights over Antarctica

    So the Antarctica problems remains the final obstacle to my being able to completely embrace flat earth.

    So, flat earthers, what do you say about the Antarctica issue?  If the circuмference of the Antarctica is so big, why is there so much sunlight during "Southern Hemisphere" summer?  Is light bouncing off the dome or something?
    1. The Analemma (the sun's traced position throughout the year) may well be the answer for this.  When the sun is closer to the antarctic, the south, at times, is exposed to more hours of  daylight.  The south remains colder than the north because when the sun is closer to the south edge, it is also higher in the sky.  The figure eight path of the sun shows the sun not only moves across the earth, but is higher and lower in the sky at different times of year.  Also, the Analemma proves earth is not a globe, because the sun's figure eight has a unique path in one area. At least one side of the globe could never be included.  Why? Because these images are taken from the same spot at the same hour for a year's time.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analemma
    2. Alleged flights.  


    Offline happenby

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    Re: Strongly Leaning Flat Earth
    « Reply #2 on: March 12, 2018, 10:57:27 AM »
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  • 1. The Analemma (the sun's traced position throughout the year) may well be the answer for this.  When the sun is closer to the antarctic, the south, at times, is exposed to more hours of  daylight.  The south remains colder than the north because when the sun is closer to the south edge, it is also higher in the sky.  The figure eight path of the sun shows the sun not only moves across the earth, but is higher and lower in the sky at different times of year.  Also, the Analemma proves earth is not a globe, because the sun's figure eight has a unique path in one area. At least one side of the globe could never be included.  Why? Because these images are taken from the same spot at the same hour for a year's time.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analemma

    Actually, the analemma can only be traced during the day so it won't be proof against the globe for positional reasons.  It may be proof against the globe because it isn't symmetrical, but elongated, and therefore doesn't make sense on a globe.

    Just answering my own "may well be the answer for this" statement. 

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Strongly Leaning Flat Earth
    « Reply #3 on: March 12, 2018, 11:08:57 AM »
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  • Very interesting 'movie' on the Analemma

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Strongly Leaning Flat Earth
    « Reply #4 on: March 12, 2018, 11:30:45 AM »
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  • Thanks, happenby.  I'm not sure I completely understand how this would explain to the long hours of sunlight in the Southern Hemisphere, but I'll keep thinking about it.


    Offline happenby

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    Re: Strongly Leaning Flat Earth
    « Reply #5 on: March 12, 2018, 11:34:04 AM »
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  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equation_of_time

    Modern science says the earth changes speed to account for peculiarities of the analemma.    According to WIKI, the earth changes speed.
    :facepalm:


    Wikipedia:
    During a year the equation of time varies as shown on the graph; its change from one year to the next is slight. Apparent time, and the sundial, can be ahead (fast) by as much as 16 min 33 s (around 3 November), or behind (slow) by as much as 14 min 6 s (around 12 February). The equation of time has zeros near 15 April, 13 June, 1 September and 25 December. Ignoring very slow changes in the Earth's orbit and rotation, these events are repeated at the same times every tropical year. However, due to the non-integer number of days in a year, these dates can vary by a day or so from year to year.[4][5]



    Offline happenby

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    Re: Strongly Leaning Flat Earth
    « Reply #6 on: March 12, 2018, 11:36:06 AM »
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  • Thanks, happenby.  I'm not sure I completely understand how this would explain to the long hours of sunlight in the Southern Hemisphere, but I'll keep thinking about it.
    I'm struggling with this myself, but clues are all we seem to get. 

    Offline noOneImportant

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    Re: Strongly Leaning Flat Earth
    « Reply #7 on: March 12, 2018, 07:53:46 PM »
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  • So, when I first started looking into flat earth, I didn't think it likely that I would come around to accepting it.

    But the evidence seems to be stacking up strongly in favor of flat earth.

    1 ) cities, mountains, other objects that are clearly visible (and obviously not just refraction or "mirage") from distances at which globe earth math would make it impossible

    2 ) strong evidence of NASA (and SpaceX) fakery

    3 ) sun spots on the top of clouds when sun is allegedly 93 million miles away

    4 ) lots of independent (not NASA controlled) footage from high enough where curvature should be visible ... and yet it's not, and where the horizon remains at eye level

    5 ) flight plans that don't make any sense except for against a flat earth map

    6 ) prohibition of free Antarctic exploration

    7 ) moonlight being cooler than surrounding area

    8 ) surveyors and engineers ignoring earth curvature

    9) NASA images of globe earth are clearly (and admittedly CGI) ... with differing shapes of continents, cut-and-paste repeated cloud patterns, no satellites visible

    10) fake Mars rover pictures, obvious green-screened and otherwise faked "astronaut" footage

    11) Piccard's pre-NASA statement that the earth looks like a circular disc with upturned edges

    12) sun changing size in the sky when it's allegedly 93 million miles away

    [this is just off the top of my head, as I'm sure there's more]

    On the globe earth side, I see ...

    1) the Antarctica problem ... long periods of sunlight where there should be less sunlight according to a flat earth model

    2) alleged flights over Antarctica

    So the Antarctica problems remains the final obstacle to my being able to completely embrace flat earth.

    So, flat earthers, what do you say about the Antarctica issue?  If the circuмference of the Antarctica is so big, why is there so much sunlight during "Southern Hemisphere" summer?  Is light bouncing off the dome or something?
    So since I know you're actually intellectually serious about this, unlike some, I will attempt to address some of these.
    1. I've talked about this one several times on this forum, and done the math on at least 2 images that I can remember. In every case I've looked at, the math works out with the expected curvature of the earth. The issue with a lot of these is that they say things like "this camera is about X feet above sea level, therefore that cliff about Y miles away should be invisible." Then if you redo the math with X+5 feet and Y+1 miles or something similar, it's completely expected for it to be visible (see here for an example of that on this forum). As I've offered before, post one that you think shouldn't work on a round earth and I'll do the math.
    2, 9, and 10. Not proof either way. I have no issue believing that some NASA images could be faked, but there are explanations for that which don't affect the shape of the earth.
    3. Never looked into this. 

    4. See #1 kind of, but this one is more complicated. The field of regard and angle of the camera make a very significant different in what you see at the horizon. These are really finicky, but I could be convinced otheriwise.

    5. This is simply not true. Also your #2 in the "against" section.
    6. Other possible explanations, but sure. 
    7. I've addressed on this forum (see here).
    8. This is a fairly vague statement, and can be addressed various ways depending on what you mean. On small scales, curvature is negligible, so yes for probably 99% of applications it's ignored. I can't think of a significant application where it comes up off the top of my head, though they surely exist. 
    11-12. The human eye is a notoriously fickle instrument. 


    Lastly, I am curious what you make of this picture and others like it. I have never seen a flat-earther provide a valid explanation for how that is possible on a flat earth. If one could be provided, I'd actually change my mind on this topic, but I have never seen it, and I don't believe it's possible based on simple geometry.


    Offline WholeFoodsTrad

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    Re: Strongly Leaning Flat Earth
    « Reply #8 on: March 13, 2018, 07:23:47 PM »
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  • It seems to me that the "long" periods of sunlight vs darkness in Antartica are probably due to changes in the Sun's circuit over the face of the Earth.  Our Summers correspond to dark periods in Antartica and our Winters correspond to light periods in Antartica.  So, maybe when we're getting more sunlight, the Sun is in a tighter circuit and when we get less, the Sun is in a broader circuit.  

    http://www.antarctica.gov.au/about-antarctica/environment/weather/sunlight-hours
    "Even a man who is pure in heart and says his prayers by night
    may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms and the autumn moon is bright."

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Strongly Leaning Flat Earth
    « Reply #9 on: March 14, 2018, 06:19:42 PM »
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  • So since I know you're actually intellectually serious about this, unlike some, I will attempt to address some of these.
    1. I've talked about this one several times on this forum, and done the math on at least 2 images that I can remember. In every case I've looked at, the math works out with the expected curvature of the earth. The issue with a lot of these is that they say things like "this camera is about X feet above sea level, therefore that cliff about Y miles away should be invisible." Then if you redo the math with X+5 feet and Y+1 miles or something similar, it's completely expected for it to be visible (see here for an example of that on this forum). As I've offered before, post one that you think shouldn't work on a round earth and I'll do the math.
    2, 9, and 10. Not proof either way. I have no issue believing that some NASA images could be faked, but there are explanations for that which don't affect the shape of the earth.
    3. Never looked into this.

    4. See #1 kind of, but this one is more complicated. The field of regard and angle of the camera make a very significant different in what you see at the horizon. These are really finicky, but I could be convinced otheriwise.

    5. This is simply not true. Also your #2 in the "against" section.
    6. Other possible explanations, but sure.
    7. I've addressed on this forum (see here).
    8. This is a fairly vague statement, and can be addressed various ways depending on what you mean. On small scales, curvature is negligible, so yes for probably 99% of applications it's ignored. I can't think of a significant application where it comes up off the top of my head, though they surely exist.
    11-12. The human eye is a notoriously fickle instrument.


    Lastly, I am curious what you make of this picture and others like it. I have never seen a flat-earther provide a valid explanation for how that is possible on a flat earth. If one could be provided, I'd actually change my mind on this topic, but I have never seen it, and I don't believe it's possible based on simple geometry.
    .
    Since it's only YouTube videos that you guys seem to comprehend, maybe you ought to look at this one.
    .
    Turn the sound off unless you like retarded NewAge synthesized tubular bells. Minute 2 is the relevant part, the rest is silly.
    .

    .
    Anyone can see this same thing by patiently watching the sun set near the latitude of Florida.
    .
    That would be like Southern California, the Gulf states (like southern Texas), Mexico, Cuba, Guatemala or Belize in the Western hemisphere.
    .
    The sun goes down very steeply into the western sky, and to think it then makes a right turn to the north (like flat-earthers keep claiming) is sheer nonsense.
    .
    The sphericity of the earth is everywhere we look all around us.
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Strongly Leaning Flat Earth
    « Reply #10 on: March 14, 2018, 06:27:35 PM »
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  • .
    Forgot to include the image of "this picture" from the quoted section.
    .
    "Lastly, I am curious what you make of this picture and others like it. I have never seen a flat-earther provide a valid explanation for how that is possible on a flat earth. If one could be provided, I'd actually change my mind on this topic, but I have never seen it, and I don't believe it's possible based on simple geometry."
    .
    Maybe this is what you're referring to, but you don't say so I don't really know what you're pointing at. 
    But NOTICE how the sun is fattened out at the bottom as it goes over the horizon.
    That widening effect is making the sun look like it is not circular (but we know it is) so it must be an illusion.
    Something is going on in the atmosphere for that to happen.
    The same kind of thing happens when the moon rises full in the east, at certain times of the year.
    But in the moon's case it looks BIGGER all over, and round, which is even more impressive.
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Strongly Leaning Flat Earth
    « Reply #11 on: June 11, 2018, 03:15:19 PM »
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  • So, when I first started looking into flat earth, I didn't think it likely that I would come around to accepting it.

    But the evidence seems to be stacking up strongly in favor of flat earth.

    1 ) cities, mountains, other objects that are clearly visible (and obviously not just refraction or "mirage") from distances at which globe earth math would make it impossible

    2 ) strong evidence of NASA (and SpaceX) fakery

    3 ) sun spots on the top of clouds when sun is allegedly 93 million miles away

    4 ) lots of independent (not NASA controlled) footage from high enough where curvature should be visible ... and yet it's not, and where the horizon remains at eye level

    5 ) flight plans that don't make any sense except for against a flat earth map

    6 ) prohibition of free Antarctic exploration

    7 ) moonlight being cooler than surrounding area

    8 ) surveyors and engineers ignoring earth curvature

    9) NASA images of globe earth are clearly (and admittedly CGI) ... with differing shapes of continents, cut-and-paste repeated cloud patterns, no satellites visible

    10) fake Mars rover pictures, obvious green-screened and otherwise faked "astronaut" footage

    11) Piccard's pre-NASA statement that the earth looks like a circular disc with upturned edges

    12) sun changing size in the sky when it's allegedly 93 million miles away

    [this is just off the top of my head, as I'm sure there's more]

    On the globe earth side, I see ...

    1) the Antarctica problem ... long periods of sunlight where there should be less sunlight according to a flat earth model

    2) alleged flights over Antarctica

    So the Antarctica problems remains the final obstacle to my being able to completely embrace flat earth.

    So, flat earthers, what do you say about the Antarctica issue?  If the circuмference of the Antarctica is so big, why is there so much sunlight during "Southern Hemisphere" summer?  Is light bouncing off the dome or something?
    .
    How about this flight plan?
    New York - Río Gallegos (Argentina) - Perth (Australia) - Beijing (China) - New York (USA)
    Aboard an Airbus A340-500, flight scheduled to take off in October 2018:
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.