Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: St. Augustine believed the earth is a sphere  (Read 20883 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jaynek

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4170
  • Reputation: +2318/-1232
  • Gender: Female
Re: St. Augustine believed the earth is a sphere
« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2018, 01:07:39 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • .
    And Smedley Butler is outed as a Protestant.
    I don't know if he is a Protestant, but he does claim that "globetards" attend the Novus Ordo with no evidence.  I can't remember the last time I went to a NO. It was years ago.

    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18177
    • Reputation: +8277/-692
    • Gender: Male
    Re: St. Augustine believed the earth is a sphere
    « Reply #46 on: May 27, 2018, 01:25:24 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I don't know if he is a Protestant, but he does claim that "globetards" attend the Novus Ordo with no evidence.  I can't remember the last time I went to a NO. It was years ago.
    .
    If he wasn't a Protestant he would have answered to the accusation. But I'm sure he read the question because then he jumped threads and posted some rather ripe and offensive slurs elsewhere without any continuity or cause. So he was reacting but trying not to show WHAT he was reacting TO. Like attempting to hurl irritating names because he read them somewhere on CI and didn't know what they mean. Disobedient and disrespectful children pick up profanity and then use it out of context just trying to be rude. Go figure. 
    .
    Pretty simple stuff. Like Truth is Transitory -- after he was banned he tried to register AGAIN under a different username TWICE, but couldn't manage to be creative (not that he was creative the first time). Probably a pubescent with too much idle time.
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Smedley Butler

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1334
    • Reputation: +551/-1531
    • Gender: Male
    Re: St. Augustine believed the earth is a sphere
    « Reply #47 on: May 27, 2018, 09:01:27 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • .
    And Smedley Butler is outed as a Protestant.
    I'm Protestant because I don't respond to every idiotic post you make, retard?
    I'm Traditional Catholic,  dipstick. And you should try going to a barbecue on the holiday like everone else does and get off the internet.
    Off to Mass,  to pray for the globetards. ..

    Offline Smedley Butler

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1334
    • Reputation: +551/-1531
    • Gender: Male
    Re: St. Augustine believed the earth is a sphere
    « Reply #48 on: May 27, 2018, 11:30:26 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I don't know if he is a Protestant, but he does claim that "globetards" attend the Novus Ordo with no evidence.  I can't remember the last time I went to a NO. It was years ago.
    With your endorsement of all things modern (Popes, encyclicals, science, cosmology, etc.) you struck me as a false-obedience Novus Ordo-type. Not a TLM-type.

    Offline Smedley Butler

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1334
    • Reputation: +551/-1531
    • Gender: Male
    Re: St. Augustine believed the earth is a sphere
    « Reply #49 on: May 27, 2018, 11:37:28 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • .
    And Smedley Butler is outed as a Protestant.
    I missed this one.
    Eat my shorts, Globestat.


    Offline Jaynek

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4170
    • Reputation: +2318/-1232
    • Gender: Female
    Re: St. Augustine believed the earth is a sphere
    « Reply #50 on: May 27, 2018, 11:47:45 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This is what Wikipedia has to say about happenby's notable authority on St. Augustine:

    It is quite possible that any claims that he made about St. Augustine believing the earth is flat were part of his satirical writings. I would not expect happenby to be able to tell.
    I did a bit of research into Leo Ferrari and his claim that St. Augustine believed the earth was flat.

    Leo Ferrari does seem to have written a scholarly, not satirical, paper in which he challenged the majority opinion among historians that St. Augustine believed the world is a globe.  While I have not read Ferrari's paper, I found a scholarly critique of it which gave counter-arguments for all of Ferrari's points and specifically mentions the passage I quoted in the OP.

    This author states that it "is completely ignored by Ferrari even though it can be read as an unequivocal endorsement of the spherical model"

    Quote
    ...this passage includes an unambiguous description of the earth (covered by water)as a globular mass (globosa moles). This creates a considerable obstacle to anyattempt to impute to Augustine a flat-earth cosmology.
    C.P.E. Nothaft, "Augustine and the Shape of the Earth: A Critique of Leo Ferrari," Augustinian Studies 42:1 (2011) 33-48

    Offline Smedley Butler

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1334
    • Reputation: +551/-1531
    • Gender: Male
    Re: St. Augustine believed the earth is a sphere
    « Reply #51 on: May 27, 2018, 03:30:07 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I did a bit of research into Leo Ferrari and his claim that St. Augustine believed the earth was flat.

    Leo Ferrari does seem to have written a scholarly, not satirical, paper in which he challenged the majority opinion among historians that St. Augustine believed the world is a globe.  While I have not read Ferrari's paper, I found a scholarly critique of it which gave counter-arguments for all of Ferrari's points and specifically mentions the passage I quoted in the OP.

    This author states that it "is completely ignored by Ferrari even though it can be read as an unequivocal endorsement of the spherical model"
    C.P.E. Nothaft, "Augustine and the Shape of the Earth: A Critique of Leo Ferrari," Augustinian Studies 42:1 (2011) 33-48
    Haha - your Nothaft paper undermines your lies Jaynek! 
    It says medieval belief was that the earth was flat!
    It says Isidore of Seville thought earth was flat!
    Is that why you didn't link it? You didn't want to get "found out"
    Hilarious

    Offline Jaynek

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4170
    • Reputation: +2318/-1232
    • Gender: Female
    Re: St. Augustine believed the earth is a sphere
    « Reply #52 on: May 27, 2018, 03:37:24 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Haha - your Nothaft paper undermines your lies Jaynek!
    It says medieval belief was that the earth was flat!
    It says Isidore of Seville thought earth was flat!
    Is that why you didn't link it? You didn't want to get "found out"
    Hilarious
    It does not say either of those things . Show the quotes of what you think said that. 

    I did not have this paper in a linkable form . 


    Offline Smedley Butler

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1334
    • Reputation: +551/-1531
    • Gender: Male
    Re: St. Augustine believed the earth is a sphere
    « Reply #53 on: May 27, 2018, 03:41:19 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Haha your paper also says there was strong Christian opposition to ball earth at the Antioch  school!

    No wonder you won't post it! 

    Offline Jaynek

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4170
    • Reputation: +2318/-1232
    • Gender: Female
    Re: St. Augustine believed the earth is a sphere
    « Reply #54 on: May 27, 2018, 04:14:45 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Haha your paper also says there was strong Christian opposition to ball earth at the Antioch  school!

    No wonder you won't post it!

    That backs up something I posted months ago:
    Quote
    Up until around the 5th century Christian thinkers are characterized as belonging to either the Alexandrian or Antiochian school of thought, named after the cities in which they were based.  They had different perspectives on Scripture and theology. The Church Fathers were associated with these schools. 

    There is a pattern in views of the shape of the earth that tends to correspond to these schools.  Antioch corresponds to belief in flat earth, Alexandria to belief in globe earth.  (Lacantius is an exception in that he is against globe earth while being associated with the Alexandrian school.)  So it is not surprising that you have been able to find many Fathers who believed in a globe earth. 
    https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-god-made-flat-earth-geocentrism/globe-earthers-worship-666/msg590433/#msg590433

    If you really think that this paper is so damaging to my position, go ahead and post a link to it and let people see for themselves.  My copy came by email from an academic service so I can't link to it.

    Offline happenby

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2768
    • Reputation: +1077/-1637
    • Gender: Female
    Re: St. Augustine believed the earth is a sphere
    « Reply #55 on: May 27, 2018, 04:30:44 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Oh, look!  I have the link to that article for everyone to see.  The writer would have us believe earth is a globe, but he winds up showing all the Fathers who fought for the flat earth throughout the centuries proving Catholics were flat earthers because of Scripture.   You have to get in fairly deeply to get to the meat and potatoes (and get past the writer's bias), but when you do, its obvious.  Jaynek misrepresented the Church's position.  She obviously did not want to post this because it proves her wrong. 

    https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/163a34b4214bd2ad?projector=1&messagePartId=0.1


    Offline Jaynek

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4170
    • Reputation: +2318/-1232
    • Gender: Female
    Re: St. Augustine believed the earth is a sphere
    « Reply #56 on: May 27, 2018, 04:35:20 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Oh, look!  I have the link to that article for everyone to see.  The writer would have us believe earth is a globe, but he winds up showing all the Fathers who fought for the flat earth throughout the centuries proving Catholics were flat earthers because of Scripture.   You have to get in fairly deeply to get to the meat and potatoes (and get past the writer's bias), but when you do, its obvious.  Jaynek misrepresented the Church's position.  She obviously did not want to post this because it proves her wrong.  

    https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/163a34b4214bd2ad?projector=1&messagePartId=0.1
    This link does not work for me.

    Why don't you back up your assertions with some quotes?

    Offline Smedley Butler

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1334
    • Reputation: +551/-1531
    • Gender: Male
    Re: St. Augustine believed the earth is a sphere
    « Reply #57 on: May 27, 2018, 04:45:31 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Haha - your paper says Diodore the Bishop of Tarsus in 378 warned against the grave sin of astrology and its connection to the error of spherical earth.


    Offline Smedley Butler

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1334
    • Reputation: +551/-1531
    • Gender: Male
    Re: St. Augustine believed the earth is a sphere
    « Reply #58 on: May 27, 2018, 04:48:16 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This link does not work for me.

    Why don't you back up your assertions with some quotes?
    Why won't you upload your pdf?
    Something to hide, glober?

    Offline happenby

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2768
    • Reputation: +1077/-1637
    • Gender: Female
    Re: St. Augustine believed the earth is a sphere
    « Reply #59 on: May 27, 2018, 04:57:01 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Sorry, here's the link properly attached and linkable.