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Offline Matthew

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Airplanes prove Flat Earth
« on: April 07, 2025, 10:32:54 PM »
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    Offline Godefroy

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    Re: Airplanes prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #1 on: April 08, 2025, 03:22:49 AM »
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  • How come new agers like Eric Dubay get so many things right on medicine, vaccines and flat earth, whilst Catholics are still debating these things. 

    I would hazard a guess that almost 100 % of yoga teachers are unvaxxed and that if you want to find information about the medecine of Hildegard von Bingen, the chances are the publisher is a new age publisher. 



    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Airplanes prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #2 on: April 08, 2025, 06:53:17 AM »
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  • I think the best analysis of this was done by some engineer turned FE, who pointed out the serious issues with landing a plane on a North-South runway in particular, detailing all the forces involved.

    See, even if you pretend that gravity "holds" everything, planes, balloons, to the earth as if it were attached by some iron rod ... then those "iron rod" forces must come into play especially with N-S landings.

    That's to say nothing of the fact that a butterfly or tiny helium balloon can also coutneract this "iron rod" force with very little effort.  If I'm being pulled around at (up to) 1000 MPH in any given direction, then to counteract that force would require additional exertion ... just as if I were walking backwards across one of those moving sidewalk things you see at airports and whatnot.  That just doesn't happen.  In fact, it's the opposite, and even the winds move OPPOSITE how they should based on the earth's rotation.

    Now these considerations apply more to a non-moving earth rather than to FE per se, but it's part of the puzzle for sure.

    In terms of the earth shape, being Flat, the most convincing piece of evidence comes from that one plane with the ridiculous top speeds that would require a constant downward adjustment of something like a couple thousand fee per second to stay at the same altitude, which most certainly does not happen.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Airplanes prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #3 on: April 08, 2025, 07:18:55 AM »
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  • I like to distinguish carefully between things that speak to a motionless earth and things which speak to a flat earth, since in the former we might have allies in the non-FE geocentrists.

    At the same time, if the earth is motionless, it does call into question everything else that mainstream science and NASA have told us.

    We've known the earth is motionless since Airy's Success and Michelson-Morley.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Airplanes prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #4 on: April 08, 2025, 07:33:53 AM »
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  • How come new agers like Eric Dubay get so many things right on medicine, vaccines and flat earth, whilst Catholics are still debating these things.

    It's similar to how most of the good work being done in support of the historicity and historical inerrancy of Sacred Scripture is being done by the Prots, while Trad Catholics like Fr. Paul Robinson are promoting the Modernist counter-perspective.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Airplanes prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #5 on: April 08, 2025, 07:49:24 AM »
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  • So here's the logical flaw with Dubay's argument in this video.

    One could argue that a COMBINATION of conservation of momentum and atmospheric drag contribute to the explanation.

    Dubay states and assumes that the momentum imparted by the earth ceases to be active as soon as the plane leaves the ground.  But the mainstream claim that the force of gravity continues to impart a momentum even when the plane has lifted off.  It would in fact be less than when the plane is on the ground, since when on the ground there's also a friction component that factors in.  Once the friction component is removed at takeoff, there would continue to be a certain momentum imparted by the force of gravity itself, which would only be slightly less at the elevations that a plane travels.  Then they could claim that the atmospheric drag (which they argue is also largely created by gravity) could them partly offset the loss of the momentum caused by friction.  Nevertheless, even with all these factors taken into account, there would be a measuarable difference, since the momentum imparted by friction would be significantly higher than the momentum imparted by the atmospheric drag.  It's actually in the North-South direction that you have much more serious problems for moving earth, as the one engineer (whose videos I'll have to dig up) admirably explained with all the math.

    Nevertheless, there should still be a measurable difference between the momentum imparted by gravity + friction (when on the ground) and the momentum imparted by gravity + atmospheric drag (when in the air ... which in turn is evidently caused by gravity).  Someone with the engineering / physics skills to do so could run the numbers.

    If I'm on a train moving East to West at 100 MPH, do I move faster if I'm moving in the same direction as the train vs. when I'm moving the opposite direction ... relative to the train floor of course?  Well, probably a little bit, but it would so small a difference that it would not be noticeable, due to the constant momemtum imparted by the friction of having at least one foot in contact with the floor at all times.  NOW, if it were possible to construct an experiment so that there's no friction on some object suspended in the air, i.e. without friction contributing to its motion, there would most certainly be a noticeable and measurable difference in opposite directions, since you'd be losing the constant momentum being communicated via the friction and relying only on the atmosphere/air within the train, which would be much less than the force imparted by friction.  I just don't know how one would construct such an experiment, BUT I recall from High School physics that the communication of momentum due to friction can in fact be calculated (I remember some formulat to that effect), and someone with the right knowledge could run the numbers.  What's at issue is whether the momentum imparted by atmospheric drag within the train cabin could also be calculated.  It's also based on friction, really, except the friction imparted by a gas (the air) would be much less than that imparted by the solid object (the floor, in conjunction with your weight that's pressing down upon the floor), and the difference should be measurable and able to be calculated for flight dynamics.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Airplanes prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #6 on: April 08, 2025, 10:33:34 AM »
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  • So here's the logical flaw with Dubay's argument in this video.

    One could argue that a COMBINATION of conservation of momentum and atmospheric drag contribute to the explanation.

    No, he showed quite clearly that "atmospheric drag", while technically existing, is negligible.

    Just shut off the engines to the plane, and what happens? The plane almost immediately starts a downward arc to the ground. Doesn't the "moving" air (all around the plane) keep the plane moving forward for some time, like a boat in a fast moving stream of water? NO IT DOESN'T.

    Air is so much less dense than water. You don't get "caught up in the stream" of air the same way you would with water.

    Remember the context of this discussion. A plane moving 550 MPH through the air. How much of that can be maintained by the atmosphere? Almost none of it.

    And his MAIN POINT remains: 

    550 + 800 MPH is going to be NOTICEABLY DIFFERENT than 
    550 - 800 MPH

    There is NO WAY we wouldn't notice that.

    Whether or not you believe there is a column of air attached to the surface of the rotating "globe" like velcro, or like an iron bar. Either way, the model falls apart when tested in reality. It makes N-S landings impossible, falsified by trip durations E vs W, etc.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Airplanes prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #7 on: April 08, 2025, 10:44:33 AM »
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  • One of the reasons I'm FIRMLY CONVINCED the earth is flat and motionless is the following:

    Either air sticks to the surface of the "globe", even at 30,000 feet where the air is quite thin, or it doesn't.

    If the air is NOT "glued" to the ground below it, then you should 100% be able to get into a hot air balloon, gain some altitude, and then wait for your destination to arrive beneath you.

    Likewise, every skydiver should end up X miles from where he jumped, since the earth was spinning the whole time he was falling through the air to the ground. But this is not observed in reality. Canon balls fired straight up land just feet from where they were fired -- sometimes landing right back inside the cannon barrel! Which would be impossible on a moving earth.

    Winds go every which direction on earth: North, West, South, East. How can that be possible when the earth constantly rotates very fast in just ONE direction? Especially on the E-W axis there should be STRONG dominant winds in only one direction.

    But if the air IS glued to the surface, it presents a different host of problems. You would have super strong winds, in one direction, as that air has to haul ass to keep up with the ground below it. As you know, the greater the radius, the further out, the faster things would have to spin to keep up with the center of the wheel.

    Now imagine flying N-S in such a scenario. The winds would decrease as you went from the equator to the top of the "globe", as the radius decreases. By the time you got to the north pole, there would be no wind. Imagine if your plane had some momentum from the equator, and now you land in a place where the earth is not spinning many feet/second at all, like the north pole.

    Think about it, think some more, and maybe throw in some research. You'll be a so-called "flat earther" before long.
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    Offline King Tailor

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    Re: Airplanes prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #8 on: April 08, 2025, 11:58:41 AM »
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  • How do you explain when boats sail over the horizon you see the hull disappear then later the mast, and when coming back from sea the mast then the hull. If the earth was flat, then the boat would simply get smaller and smaller until you couldn't see the whole thing? Also, if the earth was flat how do you explain constellations light the Southern Cross and the Big Dipper the former only being able to be seen below 25 degrees South, and the latter higher than 41 degrees North?

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Airplanes prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #9 on: April 08, 2025, 12:00:48 PM »
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  • One of the reasons I'm FIRMLY CONVINCED the earth is flat and motionless is the following:

    Either air sticks to the surface of the "globe", even at 30,000 feet where the air is quite thin, or it doesn't.

    If the air is NOT "glued" to the ground below it, then you should 100% be able to get into a hot air balloon, gain some altitude, and then wait for your destination to arrive beneath you.

    Yes, this is a major problem.  If it sticks at 30,000 feet as if somehow attached to the earth by an iron rod, the massive amount of force required to do that would in fact significantly affect lateral travel depending on which direction you'd be going.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Airplanes prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #10 on: April 08, 2025, 12:05:29 PM »
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  • How do you explain when boats sail over the horizon you see the hull disappear then later the mast, and when coming back from sea the mast then the hull. If the earth was flat, then the boat would simply get smaller and smaller until you couldn't see the whole thing? Also, if the earth was flat how do you explain constellations light the Southern Cross and the Big Dipper the former only being able to be seen below 25 degrees South, and the latter higher than 41 degrees North?

    So this is Flat Earth 101 but I'll take it that you're new to the question.  Due to simple optics, the farther something gets away and the smaller the image data gets compressed, the bottom of the boat begins to converge with the horizon.  So the hypothesis that it's due to disappearing over curvature is falsified by 1) many experience with modern-day optics (e.g. Nikon P1000 zoom cameras) where a boat can appears to disappear from the bottom up, but then you zoom in and it comes back into view ... proving the hypothesis that it's being caused simply by the laws of optics and perspective, and 2) you can simulate the same thing with people or bike riders walking away from you on a level surface, where their legs begin to disappear from the bottom up.

    What can't be explained and is fatal to the globe is where objects, such as a world-record-long-distance photo (certified by independent organizations and not done by a flat earther) captured a lighthouse that reached about 150 feet above sea level at the top from abotu 230 miles away, when it should have been obstructed by MILES of globe curvature ... and myriad other experiments demonstrating that a globe (at least anywhere near the dimensions we're told) cannot be true.

    As for the appearnces of the constellations the details of your alleged facts are incorrect, and the way stars work and rotate in a firmament with regard to the perspective of the viewer would take much too long to explain here for someone who's still pushing the "boats disappearing" fallacy, but many videos have been made explaining it.

    Also, did you know that the North Star, Polaris, doesn't move even an inch in the sky, ever, and hasn't for thousands of years, while all the other starts rotate around it?  There are viewing portals where Polaris has appeared in the exact same spot for many years.  Simply not possible given what we're told about the earth moving, rotating, spinning, and wobbling, flying through the universe and 10s or thousands of miles per hour.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Airplanes prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #11 on: April 08, 2025, 12:10:37 PM »
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  • So just the mere alleged "Chandler Wobble" alone would cause Polaris to move ... but it never moves, not even an inch.


    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Airplanes prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #12 on: April 08, 2025, 03:08:45 PM »
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  • As for the appearnces of the constellations the details of your alleged facts are incorrect, and the way stars work and rotate in a firmament with regard to the perspective of the viewer would take much too long to explain here for someone who's still pushing the "boats disappearing" fallacy, but many videos have been made explaining it.
    It would take too long to explain? And you expect me to explain stuff...

    Many videos explain lies. There are many videos that explain how protestantism is legit, and Catholicism isn't, does that make the Prots right? Even textbooks often teach wrong things or partial truths expecting you to take their word rather than explain the details. They expect you to accept Bernoulli's principle as to how planes fly, when that's only a small part of it that planes don't even need to fly.


    How do you explain when boats sail over the horizon you see the hull disappear then later the mast, and when coming back from sea the mast then the hull. If the earth was flat, then the boat would simply get smaller and smaller until you couldn't see the whole thing? Also, if the earth was flat how do you explain constellations light the Southern Cross and the Big Dipper the former only being able to be seen below 25 degrees South, and the latter higher than 41 degrees North?
    It's due in part to perspective. As things get further away, both your viewing angle get shallower, and the size of the object gets smaller. Ocean waves are actually quite large even before they get magnified by shallow areas as they approach a beach. These large waves will appear even larger relative to a distant boat. But that explanation can work on both a globe and flat earth.

     Canon balls fired straight up land just feet from where they were fired -- sometimes landing right back inside the cannon barrel! Which would be impossible on a moving earth.
    Proof of the canon experiment, please. There are a lot of variables to consider. Was it a rifled barrel? What were the wind conditions?

    Keep in mind just how long it takes for 360 degrees of earth rotation to occur: 24 hours.

    One of the reasons I'm FIRMLY CONVINCED the earth is flat and motionless is the following:

    Either air sticks to the surface of the "globe", even at 30,000 feet where the air is quite thin, or it doesn't.

    If the air is NOT "glued" to the ground below it, then you should 100% be able to get into a hot air balloon, gain some altitude, and then wait for your destination to arrive beneath you.

    Winds go every which direction on earth: North, West, South, East. How can that be possible when the earth constantly rotates very fast in just ONE direction? Especially on the E-W axis there should be STRONG dominant winds in only one direction.

    But if the air IS glued to the surface, it presents a different host of problems. You would have super strong winds, in one direction, as that air has to haul ass to keep up with the ground below it. As you know, the greater the radius, the further out, the faster things would have to spin to keep up with the center of the wheel.

    Now imagine flying N-S in such a scenario. The winds would decrease as you went from the equator to the top of the "globe", as the radius decreases. By the time you got to the north pole, there would be no wind. Imagine if your plane had some momentum from the equator, and now you land in a place where the earth is not spinning many feet/second at all, like the north pole.

    Think about it, think some more, and maybe throw in some research. You'll be a so-called "flat earther" before long.

    I'm not necessarily trying to argue anything, just pointing out some facts. 

    Did you know that air sticks to flat surfaces? Go ahead and spin up a record or CD with a drill or something, and it will blow some air like a centrifugal fan. The further from the surface, the less the air sticks, or the whole air mass in the room would be spinning.

    A big difference between that and the earth is that there is no air far from the earth according to the globe earth model. Gravity attracts it there just like it attracts everything else, and friction is the stickiness in a way. Think of how gum sticks hard to a surface, but is easier to move around when stretched above the surface.

    Also think of how if you swing a bucket or water around in a circle, when it is over your head, the high density water remains at the bottom of the bucket, while the low density air is still in the top half of the bucket defying gravity. If you filled the bucket with 10 fluids of different density that do not blend well (like oil and water and air), and swung them around in a circle, the centrifugal force would keep them separated with the densest fluid at the bottom of the bucket, and the least dense at the top, even when the bucket is in the upside down part of the swing. This gravity defying demonstration of density of fluids should help you grasp how gravity can attract air to a globe floating in a vacuum with a range of density from a few stray air molecules bouncing off the rest of the air below at the edge of space, to 14.7psi of air at sea level.


    Here's a time lapse of weather patterns over the whole earth just for the fun of it. There's a lot going on. IF the earth is rotating, you'd thing air would get flung toward the equator from the poles. Eventually there would be an equilibrium, but high pressure at the equator. An increase in pressure generates heat, heat causes air to expand, The sun surely causes much heat expansion around the equator. Add in the sun not shining in the same place all the time, and different shapes of land and mountains which interact with the air, and the system really gets complicated.


    Think about it, think some more, and maybe throw in some research. You'll be a so-called "globe-earther" before long.

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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Airplanes prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #13 on: April 08, 2025, 03:23:39 PM »
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  • So just the mere alleged "Chandler Wobble" alone would cause Polaris to move ... but it never moves, not even an inch.


    It gets better --
    There are apparently 3 or 4 different wobbles. It's impossible to artificially make ANY ball (even a small one on earth) wobble in more than one way AT THE SAME TIME.
    Every time the sky didn't match up to what their model predicted, they added another periodic wobble to "correct" it. Crazy stuff.
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    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Airplanes prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #14 on: April 08, 2025, 03:30:26 PM »
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  • It gets better --
    There are apparently 3 or 4 different wobbles. It's impossible to artificially make ANY ball (even a small one on earth) wobble in more than one way AT THE SAME TIME.
    Every time the sky didn't match up to what their model predicted, they added another periodic wobble to "correct" it. Crazy stuff.
    How do flat earthers correct their model for a 24hr sun over Antarctica? Isn't that how science works? We don't know everything, so we try to model it, find something that doesn't fit, then adapt the model?

    What can't be explained and is fatal to the globe is
    Can you think of anything FE can't explain? How about a 24hr sun over Antarctica?
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"