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Author Topic: Questions for non-flat earth geocentrism  (Read 11192 times)

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Online Ladislaus

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Re: Questions for non-flat earth geocentrism
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2023, 10:13:06 AM »
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  • Copernicus, Tycho de Brahe, Kepler, Newton and Cassini all took a global Earth for granted.
    ...
    ‘The period from Eratosthenes to Jean Picard can be called the spherical era of geodesy.

    First sentence indicates part of the problem ... taking it for granted.

    Second sentence is simply false.

    People can keep saying "earth is a globe" over and over again, but until I find a legitimate, viable explanation for the proven "see too far" problem, the globe earth model (eat least a globe the size scientists tell us it is) stands invalidated.  It's really just simple math, and refraction as a deus ex machina explanation is sheer nonsense and has been debunked by several experiments.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Questions for non-flat earth geocentrism
    « Reply #16 on: June 07, 2023, 03:38:39 PM »
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  • This video from Dr. John D is absolutely devastating to globe earth.



    Offline rum

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    Re: Questions for non-flat earth geocentrism
    « Reply #17 on: June 07, 2023, 06:54:03 PM »
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  • This video from Dr. John D is absolutely devastating to globe earth.



    Ladislaus, I'm not a scientifically-literate person. Can you tell me if there any PHd's who promote the flat earth idea? It's an issue that inspires indifference in me, except for the possibility that the issue may be promoted as some sort of diversion. Who is Dr. John D? Does he have a last name?
    Some would have people believe that I'm a deceiver because I've used various handles on different Catholic forums. They only know this because I've always offered such information, unprompted. Various troll accounts on FE. Ben on SuscipeDomine. Patches on ABLF 1.0 and TeDeum. GuitarPlucker, Busillis, HatchC, and Rum on Cathinfo.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Questions for non-flat earth geocentrism
    « Reply #18 on: June 07, 2023, 07:50:05 PM »
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  • Ladislaus, I'm not a scientifically-literate person. Can you tell me if there any PHd's who promote the flat earth idea? It's an issue that inspires indifference in me, except for the possibility that the issue may be promoted as some sort of diversion. Who is Dr. John D? Does he have a last name?

    I don't know his last name, but he evidently has a Ph.D. in a science field with some specialization in spectrometery.  People who know him say he's a Doctor, but I don't recall anyone revealing his last name.  This video does explain everything very clearly.

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Questions for non-flat earth geocentrism
    « Reply #19 on: June 07, 2023, 07:55:10 PM »
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  •  deus ex machina 
    Off topic but I've always wondered, is using this phase taking the Lord's name in vain?


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Questions for non-flat earth geocentrism
    « Reply #20 on: June 07, 2023, 08:32:05 PM »
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  • Off topic but I've always wondered, is using this phase taking the Lord's name in vain?

    No more than if you would be referring to a pagan god.  Even the Bible refers to the gods of the heathen.  It's a historical reference to Greek tragedy where the writer would get the main protagonists into such a pickle that the only way in which to "solve" the problem was to roll out a Greek god in a basket (usually suspended above the stage) that would magically make the problem go away.  So it's a reference to a convenient contrivance to solve some problem, synonymous with waiving a wand.

    Offline Kephapaulos

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    Re: Questions for non-flat earth geocentrism
    « Reply #21 on: June 07, 2023, 09:18:19 PM »
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  • For the record,

    I am a young earth creationist and geocentrist. I am not a flat earther, but I am open to the arguments. For me, it is not finding and understanding a coherent flat earth system still. 
    "Non nobis, Domine, non nobis; sed nomini tuo da gloriam..." (Ps. 113:9)

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Questions for non-flat earth geocentrism
    « Reply #22 on: June 11, 2023, 04:27:08 AM »
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  • I remember seeing some paper posted on Cassinian ovals a while back on this forum. I can't seem to find it. Does anyone have a link?


    Offline cassini

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    Re: Questions for non-flat earth geocentrism
    « Reply #23 on: June 11, 2023, 09:17:05 AM »
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  • I remember seeing some paper posted on Cassinian ovals a while back on this forum. I can't seem to find it. Does anyone have a link?

    Cassini measured the size of the sun every day of a year. Thus he was able to show an oval orbit for the sun called Cassini's oval. This falsified Kepler's ellipse used by Newton and astronomy ever since to have their heliocentrism.

    If the sun moved around the Earth in a perfect circle, then the ‘size’ of the sun around us would appear the same all year round. Cassini discovered that the angular diameter (its size as it appears to us) of the sun does not remain the same apparent size all year round but gets slightly bigger and slightly smaller in its annual journey around the Earth; biggest when nearest the Earth around 2nd/3rd January (its Perihelion), and smallest when furthest from the Earth around 1st/2nd July (its Aphelion). 




    The appropriate template with a defining still-point for the Earth must not only lend itself to the matching of diameters and corresponding ecliptic longitudes, but also serve as a model that can for both sun and planets respectively wed periodicity to both positions and observable distances. 

    Cassini was sure of his curve by 1680 and the Cassinoid got its first public mention in Jacques Ozanam Dictionnaire Mathématique (1691) and by the Paris Observatory in 1693. His ‘Cassinian oval’ was further acknowledged in 1740 when his son Giacomo described it in his book Elements d’Astronomie:
    ‘By doing an exact observation of the sun’s visible diameters, my father has found a different curve to the ellipse, which is used to show exactly the real movement of the Sun and the several distances from the Earth.’ (Elements d’Astronomie, P.149)

    ‘As for the other [known] planets, their apparent discs have been exactly observed, which according to their different situations in connection with the Sun have different phases like the Moon, but less visibly in the furthest planets. By these observations it has been recognised that each planet makes its own revolution around the Sun, as Copernicus and Tycho de Brahe had supposed, and that they all have with regard to the sun about the same eccentricity as the ancients had assigned the Earth.’--- Giacomo Cassini: Elements d’Astronomie.

    Cassini’s Planetary Template:



    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Questions for non-flat earth geocentrism
    « Reply #24 on: June 11, 2023, 10:14:54 AM »
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  • How did Cassini pull off measurements of the sun’s size, since the apparent size of the sun will change due to atmospheric conditions?

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Questions for non-flat earth geocentrism
    « Reply #25 on: June 11, 2023, 10:46:29 AM »
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  • How did Cassini pull off measurements of the sun’s size, since the apparent size of the sun will change due to atmospheric conditions?
    As I am not an astronomer I looked up the question 
    Is there a correlation between the maximum magnification of Earth's atmospheric lens and the apparent diameter of the Sun and the Moon?

    Atmospheric refraction doesn’t magnify, it reduces, and only in altitude. It’s strongest on the horizon, where it lets us see celestial objects up to about 1/2° below the geometric horizon; thus it reduces a 181° arc to an apparent 180° from horizon to horizon. The strength of the refraction varies non-linearly with altitude, from zero at the zenith to about 1′ (1 arc-minute) at 45°elevation, to a mean of 35.4′ on the horizon. The exact deviation varies slightly with atmospheric temperature and pressure.

    When the Moon or Sun are on the horizon they appear slightly flattened due to the increasing amount of refraction from top to bottom, but their apparent widths are unaffected. Away from the horizon, the only significant impact of atmospheric refraction is that astronomical altitude angle measurements have to be corrected, depending on altitude. Azimuth measurements are unaffected.

    Now if anyone knew about refraction it was Cassini: 

    In the years that followed, Cassini produced an astonishing number of observations, always improving the known data with better accuracy. As an example of Cassini’s genius, and how he revolutionised astronomy, let us read how he overcame the astronomical problem of refraction:
     
    ‘In order to establish the principles of astronomy in a solid manner, the Academy judged that before everything else it was necessary to distinguish false appearances from the true ones. The ancients had supposed that the rays of stars came in a straight line to our eye. It had been well noticed for about a century that this supposition does not tally with the observations, and it was recognised that the rays break up on passing through the ether in the air that surrounds the Earth. This ‘refraction’ makes stars appear higher than they really are, and that near the horizon it raises the sun and the moon more than the size of their diameters. But the most famous modern astronomers were still mistaken in that having remarked that the refractions become smaller to the measure as the heights get bigger, it was supposed that the refractions of the fixed stars become faded at the height of thirty degrees and those of the Sun at height of forty-five degrees. The academy discovered by making many very exact observations that the refractions both of the sun and of the fixed stars are still very perceptible at the height of forty-five degrees; that they are the same by day as by night; that they are not different for the Sun and for the stars; that they only become perceivable at the zenith; that it is therefore necessary to correct all the apparent heights of the stars, and even to lessen the heights of the Pole [star]. For even though the ancients had never made a distinction between the heights of the apparent Poles and the true ones, nevertheless it is a fact that the heights of the Poles appear in our climes to be bigger by a few minutes than they really are: whence it follows that up to now there has been error in all of the astronomic calculations based on the height of the Pole, and as there are few observations which do not suppose the height of the Pole, there are thus only a few (observations) that do not require correction.’--- J. D. Cassini.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Questions for non-flat earth geocentrism
    « Reply #26 on: June 11, 2023, 10:58:38 AM »
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  • Thanks, cassini.  In addition to refraction, though, when the sun is lower in the sky, moisture in the atmosphere has a magnifying effect.  Perhaps he was measuring only in certain regions of the sky.  We've probably all seen the phenomenon of the giant moon when it's low on the horizon.  It's been claimed this is an optical illusion, but it's most definitely not.

    Since he was taking daily measurements, perhaps he was taking them as the sun was overhead rather than lower to the horizon.

    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: Questions for non-flat earth geocentrism
    « Reply #27 on: June 11, 2023, 01:11:24 PM »
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  • This video from Dr. John D is absolutely devastating to globe earth.


    While I've been a geocentrist for several years, I'm a flat earth rookie - neither for nor against, just never looked into it.  Data, live footage, etc.  Nicely done.  This is a compelling video. 

    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: Questions for non-flat earth geocentrism
    « Reply #28 on: June 11, 2023, 01:16:35 PM »
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  • How did Cassini pull off measurements of the sun’s size...

    I was reading this thread asking this exact question when this post appeared next.  How was he measuring the sun hundreds of years ago without modern filters.  Was he looking through some cardboard box with a pinhole in it?  How would he observe the sun on a regular basis long enough to measure it?

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Questions for non-flat earth geocentrism
    « Reply #29 on: June 13, 2023, 02:08:46 AM »
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  • Cassini decided to measure the Earth and found it was shaped more like a pear. 
    Was watching the video from the other thread and when I saw this I immediately thought of your post regarding the 'pear' earth.



    This potential shape of the earth is very interesting compared to the current flat earth model that is generally used.