If the Earth were flat, everyone one on the flat surface would see the sun rise at the same time. That is obvious, and the size of the sun would have nothing to do with it.

The size of the sun would not affect when it was seen by those on the flat surface; it would only affect the size of what they all saw at the same time.  

You said "the sun lights the earth while it travels, starting east and finishing west."  I agree, but again, if the Earth were flat, it would light the entire surface at the same time.  Sunrise on the eastern edge of the earth would take place at the exact same time as sunrise on the western edge.  If the sun was small, as you say, and much closer to the earth than most believe, this would not affect the time of sunrise or sunset for anyone on the flat surface. It would only affect the time in which the close object was directly over their location.

“It is a common misconception that the sun would light the entire earth's surface at the same time.”

If the Earth were flat, it most certainly would light the entire surface at the same time.  

You are suggesting that the sun will only light the portion of the Earth that it is over at a given time, but not other areas of the same flat surface that are father away (similar to how a flashlight only illumines a narrow circular area when aimed at the ground at close distance).  

This is demonstrably false, since the sun begins to light the each location of the earth from the moment those at the location see it to rise in the east.  It doesn’t only begin to light the various locations as it passes by overhead. Additionally, the fact that everyone on Earth sees the sun rise and sees the sun set, proves that the sun is visible to all from moment it rises to the time it sets.  


Again, you assume the sun bigger than it is.  Yes, from the moment it can be seen, and just prior, and for a short time after it departs, light is seen.  But for most of the day, as it travels across the earth, it is not seen.  Globalists assume this is because it disappears around the curve.  But that is demonstrated as non-existent in every experiment imaginable.  Only an indoctrinated person believes mass amounts of water curve around the outside of a globe.

"I'm constantly wondering, checking, experimenting, and asking questions, because the world isn't just for rocket scientists.  Its for me, too."

Here is an experiment for you to try tonight.  Go into a room with a table (flat surface), turn out the lights, put a small portable light (such as a candle) below the surface of the edge of the table, slowly lift it above surface level, and see if it lights the entire surface at once.  Without ruining the experiment, I can tell you that it will. The surface of the table closest to the light will illuminate at the same time as the surface farthest away.  If the Earth were flat, the same thing would happen when the sun rose in the East.  

Ok.  Used an led light held above the table and it only lights the area below it and slightly beyond.  It does not light the entire table.  Using anything bigger would not correspond to the relationship in size between earth and sun. 

“My friend flew late afternoon from the East coast, to the West coast.  For hours, the plane cruised at one altitude, while it chased the sun.  The sun never set--for the plane.  But down on earth in DC for instance, people saw the sun set as it moved out of their area at 7:00pm.”

That is exactly what we would expect with a global Earth.  If the plane took off 2 hours before sunset time in DC, and followed the curvature of the Earth for 4 hours on its way to California, the plane would remain in a lit area until it landed three time zones westward.  The sun would then set 1 hour after the plane landed – three hours after it set in DC.  

The example you used refutes your position: If the Earth were flat, the sun, which was above the horizon in California when your friend landed, would still be above the horizon in DC. The horizon would be the same for everyone, and therefore the sun would set at the same time for everyone.



“the plane … never changed altitude and followed a straight level line for 3000 miles.  How can a plane follow a level trajectory for 3000 miles and not fly off into space?”

Very simple.  The plane followed the gradual curvature of the Earth from a height of 30,000 feet above the surface.



Anyone who tells you that a plane that is flying level, is actually curving, is lying.  The mechanical instrument that keeps the plane level does not account for the surface of the earth, or anything other than its own internal mechanism which indicates when the plane changes position going off the level.  It does not operate using anything related to earth, but only within its own balances.  

  According to Wiki:
A gyroscope is a wheel mounted in two or three gimbals, which are pivoted supports that allow the rotation of the wheel about a single axis. A set of three gimbals, one mounted on the other with orthogonal pivot axes, may be used to allow a wheel mounted on the innermost gimbal to have an orientation remaining independent of the orientation, in space, of its support. In the case of a gyroscope with two gimbals, the outer gimbal, which is the gyroscope frame, is mounted so as to pivot about an axis in its own plane determined by the support. This outer gimbal possesses one degree of rotational freedom and its axis possesses none. The inner gimbal is mounted in the gyroscope frame (outer gimbal) so as to pivot about an axis in its own plane that is always perpendicular to the pivotal axis of the gyroscope frame (outer gimbal). This inner gimbal has two degrees of rotational freedom.
The axle of the spinning wheel defines the spin axis. The rotor is constrained to spin about an axis, which is always perpendicular to the axis of the inner gimbal. So the rotor possesses three degrees of rotational freedom and its axis possesses two. The wheel responds to a force applied to the input axis by a reaction force to the output axis.

As seen by the description of its operation,  the rotor is constrained to spin about an axis which is always perpendicular to the inner gimbal.  This means that only level is maintained, not curve. 

“The sun is not big enough to light the whole earth, but traveling at about 1000 mph, it gradually lights an area for 8-10 hours (up to 12) as it comes and goes to carry its light from East to West”  

Again, this is demonstrably false. We know that the sun is visible from the moment it rises to the moment it sets.  If you doubt that, watch it go down tonight, and wake up early and watch it rise tomorrow.  We also know that the sun is big enough light each area from the moment those at the location see it rise, until the moment those at the location see it set.  It does not lighten a particular location only when it passes by overhead.


My experiment and literally hundreds shown online prove otherwise.  Put your two last sentences together and take out the not.  In fact, it does light only the area between rising and setting. 

“There are several videos on Youtube explaining how the sun works with perspective for people on the ground.  You may need to watch a few of them to get an idea because its difficult to conceptualize what someone is saying until you see the experiments.”

I’ve watched some of these videos and they were absurd.  All you need to know is that, if the Earth were flat, the sun would rise and set at the same time for everyone, and there would never be a location on the entire flat surface where the sun would not be visible, when it was high in the sky at another location.  These points are irrefutable and no Youtube video can explain it away.


Ok, well.  I guess you're done.  But there really is more to know.  Thanks for the convo.  Good luck!

Me: You are suggesting that the sun will only light the portion of the Earth that it is over at a given time, but not other areas of the same flat surface that are father away (similar to how a flashlight only illumines a narrow circular area when aimed at the ground at close distance).  This is demonstrably false, since the sun begins to light the each location of the earth from the moment those at the location see it to rise in the east.  It doesn’t only begin to light the various locations as it passes by overhead. Additionally, the fact that everyone on Earth sees the sun rise and sees the sun set, proves that the sun is visible to all from moment it rises to the time it sets."

You: "Again, you assume the sun bigger than it is.  Yes, from the moment it can be seen, and just prior, and for a short time after it departs, light is seen.  But for most of the day, as it travels across the earth, it is not seen.  Globalists assume this is because it disappears around the curve."

Reply: No, I'm not assuming the sun is bigger than it is.  If the Earth were flat, the horizon would be the same for everyone, regardless of how far east or how far west they lived, right?  Of course.  This means that everyone would see the sun rise and set at the same time.  

Not quite.  Just like when a train track converges at a point in the distance, we know that perspective limits the view of one's eye.  Take a boat on the water.  It can disappear to the viewer on the beach.  But use a camera or binoculars and the boat comes in full view.  Flat water, or when land is flat, like on a salt flat, you know that perspective does not permit, after about 3 miles, the eye to resolve distant things and everything seemingly converges. The sun is higher up, but the distance away from the viewer is great enough that when it is several hundred miles away, it remains beyond the limits of perspective and is too low on the horizon to view.    

It would not rise for those in California three hours after it rose for those in New York, much less would it rise for those in New York 12 hours after it rose for those in China.  No, if the surface was flat, the sun would rise for everyone at the same time, and obviously it would never disappear from the view of anyone from the time it rose until the time it set. The fact that it rises above the horizon at entirely different times, depending on how far east or west they live, proves, to any rational person, that the Earth is not flat.

Regarding the brightness, it is a fact that as soon as we see the sun rise it begins to light our area, and it continues to enlighten our area until it sets.  This proves 1) that the sun does not only begin to light our area as it passes by overhead, and 2) the sin is big enough and bright enough to enlighten the sky from the time it rises above the horizon until the time it sets below the horizon.

Please tell me you are able to understand this.  


I do understand.  I know that even the light of the sun can be distant enough away that it remains below the eye's view, below the horizon. However the horizon rises to the eye of the viewer, almost no matter how high one goes.  The horizon is eye level on the beach.  The horizon is eye level in a plane.  The horizon seemingly moves, but that is only due to perspective.  The fact that the horizon rises to the eye of the viewer whether on the ground, or up in a plane proves earth is not a globe.  If earth were a globe, the horizon would fall below the line of sight as one rose up into the air in order to account for the curvature downward that forms a ball.  But it never does.  

Please tell me you are able to understand this.  


I do understand.  I know that even the light of the sun can be distant enough away that it remains below the eye's view, below the horizon. However the horizon rises to the eye of the viewer, almost no matter how high one goes.  The horizon is eye level on the beach.  The horizon is eye level in a plane.  The horizon seemingly moves, but that is only due to perspective.