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Author Topic: Why does FE even matter?  (Read 62142 times)

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Offline SkidRowCatholic

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Why does FE even matter?
« on: December 05, 2025, 05:05:14 PM »
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    • I really don't understand how anyone could think of who is or isn't the Pope as if it is some tangential question that won't "fix" anything and therefore should not be of concern.

    but then,

    They seem to be obsessing about the shape of the earth?

    So, one needs to know who the Pope is or isn't because it relates to salvation.

    but,

    How does knowing the earth is flat help someone, other than prove yet further still that the world is run by liars?

    It seems like a form of projection, where one can substitute the issue that is actually important for one that isn't and then vent all their frustration against the meaningless object of their contempt.

    Just looking for some enlightenment as to why FE even matters - thanks in advance.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Why does FE even matter?
    « Reply #1 on: December 05, 2025, 05:19:50 PM »
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    • It's something in the natural realm that mankind CAN solve.

    The pope question has PROVEN to be unsolvable by the power of man. 

    That's already a sufficient answer. As for the many reasons why FE is important, read the attached graphic:
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Why does FE even matter?
    « Reply #2 on: December 05, 2025, 05:28:16 PM »
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    • Quote from: SkidRowCatholic on December 05, 2025, 05:05:14 PM
    I really don't understand how anyone could think of who is or isn't the Pope as if it is some tangential question that won't "fix" anything and therefore should not be of concern.
    Matthew already explained it.  The pope question is partially theological and partially a spiritual mystery, because the doctrine of Christ and His Church and His successor are a spiritual mystery which we will never fully understand.

    The shape of the earth is purely physical.
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    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Why does FE even matter?
    « Reply #3 on: December 05, 2025, 05:33:40 PM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on December 05, 2025, 05:19:50 PM
    It's something in the natural realm that mankind CAN solve.
    How do you definitively "solve" it to the point that the tables are flipped and the globe earthers look like the crazies?

    Quote from: Matthew on December 05, 2025, 05:19:50 PM
    The pope question has PROVEN to be unsolvable by the power of man.
    That really depends on what you mean by "unsolvable". For some it is already "solved". I would liken it to those who hold to FE - they already KNOW the earth is flat.

    Quote from: Matthew on December 05, 2025, 05:19:50 PM
    As for the many reasons why FE is important, read the attached graphic:
    The graphic seems to center around the idea that this is all about $$$, and then ironically states, "You cannot serve two masters."

    If everyone just acknowledged that the earth was flat then, "big bang, evolution, taxation theft, climate agenda, corrupt politics, etc." will just proof! go away?
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    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Why does FE even matter?
    « Reply #4 on: December 05, 2025, 05:35:23 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 05, 2025, 05:28:16 PM
    Matthew already explained it.  The pope question is partially theological and partially a spiritual mystery, because the doctrine of Christ and His Church and His successor are a spiritual mystery which we will never fully understand.

    The shape of the earth is purely physical.
    So there are no "dogmatic flatearthers" then? :laugh1:
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    Online Michaelknoxville

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    Re: Why does FE even matter?
    « Reply #5 on: December 05, 2025, 05:52:27 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 05, 2025, 05:28:16 PM
    Matthew already explained it.  The pope question is partially theological and partially a spiritual mystery, because the doctrine of Christ and His Church and His successor are a spiritual mystery which we will never fully understand.

    The shape of the earth is purely physical.
    😵‍💫 if the church didn’t have the fullness of truth……what are we doing here!? I understand the mysteries but……. The vicar of Christ was never one of them. Are we orthodox now? Or Protestants? Protesters? 
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Why does FE even matter?
    « Reply #6 on: December 05, 2025, 06:02:40 PM »
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    • Quote from: Michaelknoxville on December 05, 2025, 05:52:27 PM
    😵‍💫 if the church didn’t have the fullness of truth……what are we doing here!? I understand the mysteries but……. The vicar of Christ was never one of them. Are we orthodox now? Or Protestants? Protesters?

    Are you playing dumb, or is there no acting involved?

    There is no debate about the doctrine of the Papacy. Of course the Catholic Church has a Pope. The supernatural mystery (which man cannot solve) is: what happened to the Church, and the Pope, around the time of Vatican II? What exactly is the status of each of the post-Vatican II Popes? How will the Crisis be resolved?

    That is a problem that is APPARENTLY unsolvable. I never would have said this in the 80s. But here we are in 2025, and the Crisis is still unsolved. 100% unsolved. There are still copious quantities of good Catholics on different (contradictory) sides and opinions on the matter.

    Apparently holiness, high intellect and good will are NOT enough to get everyone on one main position!
    Because you can't argue with the facts. "Contra factum non est argumentum."
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Why does FE even matter?
    « Reply #7 on: December 05, 2025, 06:29:29 PM »
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    • Quote from: Michaelknoxville on December 05, 2025, 05:52:27 PM
    😵‍💫 if the church didn’t have the fullness of truth……what are we doing here!? I understand the mysteries but……. The vicar of Christ was never one of them. Are we orthodox now? Or Protestants? Protesters?
    We're talking about the papal question in relation to the CURRENT CRISIS.  That is, "What happens if a pope is a heretic?"  That's an unsolvable question because it's never happened before.

    St Robert Bellarmine (and his esteemed theologians of the day) couldn't figure it out, over 400 years ago.  At best, they guessed.
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    Online Michaelknoxville

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    Re: Why does FE even matter?
    « Reply #8 on: December 05, 2025, 06:32:23 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 05, 2025, 06:29:29 PM
    We're talking about the papal question in relation to the CURRENT CRISIS.  That is, "What happens if a pope is a heretic?"  That's an unsolvable question because it's never happened before.

    St Robert Bellarmine (and his esteemed theologians of the day) couldn't figure it out, over 400 years ago.  At best, they guessed.
    Alright that sound a lot better. Thank you! 
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    Online Michaelknoxville

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    Re: Why does FE even matter?
    « Reply #9 on: December 05, 2025, 06:36:40 PM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on December 05, 2025, 06:02:40 PM
    Are you playing dumb, or is there no acting involved?

    There is no debate about the doctrine of the Papacy. Of course the Catholic Church has a Pope. The supernatural mystery (which man cannot solve) is: what happened to the Church, and the Pope, around the time of Vatican II? What exactly is the status of each of the post-Vatican II Popes? How will the Crisis be resolved?

    That is a problem that is APPARENTLY unsolvable. I never would have said this in the 80s. But here we are in 2025, and the Crisis is still unsolved. 100% unsolved. There are still copious quantities of good Catholics on different (contradictory) sides and opinions on the matter.

    Apparently holiness, high intellect and good will are NOT enough to get everyone on one main position!
    Because you can't argue with the facts. "Contra factum non est argumentum."
    “because the doctrine of Christ and His Church and His successor are a spiritual mystery which we will never fully understand”

    you see how that can be interpreted right!? I mean have no prior experience with pax. That statement seemed pretty wild! And it’s not like there have not been a handful of bad popes. 
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Why does FE even matter?
    « Reply #10 on: December 05, 2025, 06:52:38 PM »
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    • Quote from: Michaelknoxville on December 05, 2025, 06:36:40 PM
    “because the doctrine of Christ and His Church and His successor are a spiritual mystery which we will never fully understand”

    you see how that can be interpreted right!? I mean have no prior experience with pax. That statement seemed pretty wild! And it’s not like there have not been a handful of bad popes.
    I'm just quoting St Paul:

    31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they shall be two in one flesh. 32This is a great sacrament; but I speak in Christ and in the church.

    A sacrament is a spiritual mystery.  That's how St Paul defines the relationship between Christ and the Church.  And since the Pope is BOTH the divine representative of Christ AND ALSO the human head of the Church, the papacy is also a spiritual "sacrament" or mystery.
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    Online Michaelknoxville

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    Re: Why does FE even matter?
    « Reply #11 on: December 05, 2025, 07:15:21 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on December 05, 2025, 06:52:38 PM
    I'm just quoting St Paul:

    31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they shall be two in one flesh. 32This is a great sacrament; but I speak in Christ and in the church.

    A sacrament is a spiritual mystery.  That's how St Paul defines the relationship between Christ and the Church.  And since the Pope is BOTH the divine representative of Christ AND ALSO the human head of the Church, the papacy is also a spiritual "sacrament" or mystery.
    Got ya! Thank you. It’s mystery why Jesus would pick the apostle who denied Him 3 times. I get it. To the extent I can get it haha. 
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