Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Fighting Errors in the Modern World => The Earth God Made - Flat Earth, Geocentrism => Topic started by: cassini on May 20, 2025, 10:48:48 AM
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https://www.lewrockwell.com/2025/05/no_author/will-pope-leo-xiv-reveal-the-vaticans-secret-ufo-files/
Few Catholics today know that the belief in aliens has long been condemned by early Churchmen and again at Bruno's trial from 1593-1600. In recent books written by Professor A. A. Martinez he tells us ‘Saint Hippolytus (170-235AD) [a martyred Christian theologian], ridiculed the doctrine of infinitely many suns, moons and worlds, some inhabited.’ He then tells us: ‘around 260CE Pope Dionysius of Alexandria wrote a tract against the Epicureans mainly to criticize their theory that all things were composed of atoms without divine Providence.’ [natural evolution].
‘This text Genesis has above all a religious and theological importance. There are not to be sought in it significant elements from the point of view of science…. Indeed, the theory of natural evolution, understood in a sense that does not exclude divine causality, is not in principle opposed to the truth about the creation of the visible world, as presented in Genesis.’--- L’Osservatore Romano, Feb. 3, 1986
Professor Martinez’s books show that Pope Dionysus (259-268AD) wrote a booklet directed against the theory that atoms clash and combine by chance ‘and thus gradually form this world and all objects in it; and more, that they construct infinite worlds.’ His writings also identify many Church Fathers who condemned the claim that there are many worlds like ours with intelligent life like humans. The Professor records ‘in 384CE’ Philaster, Bishop of Brescia condemned the ‘heresy that says worlds are infinite and innumerable…whereas Scripture teaches us that it is one.’ In 402 St Jerome complained that one of the most heretical claims of all was that ‘worlds are innumerable. St. Augustine even composed a list of 88 such heresies; the 77th was innumerable worlds.’
‘Other theologians too cited this heresy for centuries. They explained the problem, “we cannot assert that there exist two or many worlds, since neither do we assert two or many Christs [the only begotten son (John 3:16)]” Aristotle had insisted that many worlds cannot exist since it would require more than one First Cause.’- Prof. Martinez: Pythagoras or Christ.
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Few Catholics today know that the belief in aliens has long been condemned by early Churchmen and again at Bruno's trial from 1593-1600.
No, it hasn't. The plurality of words (https://isidore.co/calibre/#panel=book_list&search=title:plurality) has been an open question.
And Bruno was condemned for the heresy of pantheism.
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No, it hasn't. The plurality of words (https://isidore.co/calibre/#panel=book_list&search=title:plurality) has been an open question.
And Bruno was condemned for the heresy of pantheism.
Yes it has ... I just saw a direct quote from, I believe it was Pope St. Agatho condemning it as heretical.
EDIT: now I recall, it was cited by Fr. Ripperger in that video posted of his talk about alien deception. He quoted it very early on in the video.
https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/alien-deception/msg985573/#msg985573
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Does anyone on CI believe in aliens? Hopefully not! :facepalm:
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I just saw a direct quote from, I believe it was Pope St. Agatho condemning it as heretical.
St. Thomas said the Second Person of the Trinity could assume more than one type of human (i.e., intelligent embodied) nature (https://isidore.co/aquinas/summa/TP/TP003.html#TPQ3A7THEP1) (but he seems to think He hasn't).
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St. Thomas said the Second Person of the Trinity could assume more than one type of human (i.e., intelligent embodied) nature (https://isidore.co/aquinas/summa/TP/TP003.html#TPQ3A7THEP1) (but he seems to think He hasn't).
Well, aliens aren't human, so your argument is defeated.
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aliens aren't human, so your argument is defeated.
Were the nephalim not intelligent? Who knows.
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My main problem with those who hold the theory of intelligent alien lifeforms is that, being intelligent, they would be capable of sin, and being the subjects of sin, they would be in need of the Blood of the Redeemer. Essentially, maintaining these extra-terrestrial beings to exist is essentially affirming that there are intelligent beings (not angels) who are not corrupted by sin and potentially not in need of redemption. This is heretical on the face of it.
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St. Thomas said the Second Person of the Trinity could assume more than one type of human (i.e., intelligent embodied) nature (https://isidore.co/aquinas/summa/TP/TP003.html#TPQ3A7THEP1) (but he seems to think He hasn't).
That's nice, but that's his purely speculative opinion akin to the angels on the head of a pin ... and anything he speculated is trumped by any papal teaching.
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That's nice, but that's his purely speculative opinion akin to the angels on the head of a pin ... and anything he speculated is trumped by any papal teaching.
Like the Immaculate Conception.
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ARE OTHER PLANETS INHABITED?
Saint Boniface (the Apostle of Germany), never failed to keep in close touch with Pope Zachary, and each was to the other a reserve of strength and inspiration. There is among their correspondence a docuмent of especial interest to us in the light of all the conjecture there has been over the past few years on the possibility of “inhabited planets” other than our own.
Saint Boniface complained to the Pope that an Irish priest named Virgilius was disturbing men’s minds by teaching “that there was another world, other men on another planet beneath the earth, another sun, and another moon.”
“If it is well proved that Virgilius has spoken thus,” Saint Zachary wrote, “you must convene a council and expel him from the Church. We are addressing to this same Virgilius letters of evocation, so that he may be minutely questioned in our presence and, if found guilty of holding false doctrine, he may be sentenced to canonical punishment.”
It transpired that in the end it was not necessary for Saint Zachary to condemn Virgilius, for the priest completely yielded to the correction and counsel of his Holy Father and went on, in the light of pure and chaste theology, to sanctify himself. He became bishop of Salzburg, and, glorious to relate, lived a life of such holiness and heroism that he was canonized by Pope Gregory IX.
But Pope Saint Zachary did denounce in this connection, “certain heretics who maintained the existence of a race of men not descended from Adam and not ransomed by Christ.”
It should be added, because of the controversy which later centered around it, that this condemnation of Pope Zachary’s was not intended to mean that he condemned the opinion that the world was round and that men might easily be living on the other side of it – as some have tried to make out – for both Pope Zachary and Saint Boniface were well acquainted with the fact that the earth was round and one of the Doctors of the Church, the Venerable Bede, had expressly taught so. But he did condemn, and we have his words for it, the teaching of the existence of a race of men – on another planet – who were not, and who could not have been, descended from Adam and who were not ransomed by Christ.
- Fr. Feeney/St. Benedict Center
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Pope Saint Zachary did denounce in this connection, “certain heretics who maintained the existence of a race of men not descended from Adam and not ransomed by Christ.”
Everyone born with Original Sin descended from Adam and was ransomed by the New Adam, but that doesn't necessitate there not being other embodied intelligent beings.
"the hand of the Lord is not shortened" —Is. 59:1
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"Are other planets inhabited"
That is BEGGING THE QUESTION. In other words, assuming there ARE other planets in the first place, and so I'm only asking if they're inhabited or not.
Like if I asked a man,
"What kind of men do you date?"
I would be assuming he dates men at all. That is begging the question.
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We've been all over the earth, within the Ice Wall at least, and haven't found any aliens.
Maybe there is life beyond the Ice Wall. But even then, the Bible is pretty clear that God created everything in 6 days, and Man on the 6th day. He rested on the 7th. And that was purported -- by the Bible -- to be a record of how God created the heaven and the earth. Not just "humans and their planet", but EVERYTHING including the heavens.
Sorry guys, there won't be any USS Enterprise, space travel, or Spock.
Genesis 1:1
God createth Heaven and Earth, and all things therein, in six days.
1 (https://drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=1&ch=1&l=1-#x)In the beginning God created heaven, and earth.
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Some thoughts i've heard others make on the topic of aliens.
1. If aliens/other life exists, then they would need to be saved, just like us.
a. Which means they are part of the mystical body of Christ, who created all life.
b. If they are part of the mystical body, and we don't know, then the Church isn't praying for them, they aren't praying for us, etc.
c. If we don't know of them, then who is converting them? Who is baptizing them? Who is instructing them in the Faith?
d. How can God create another race of people, whom the Church is not in authority over? Who aren't subject to the pope?
e. How can God create another race of people, who have different rules of religion than us? Do they have a different set of commandments?
f. Do they have their own set of priests, their own churches, their own sacraments -- all different from what "earthlings" have?
g. This creates 2 parts of the mystical body -- the known and unknown. 2 sets of churches. 2 different rules of God. It makes no sense. God does not contradict Himself.
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On a related topic ...
https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/how-the-antichrist-will-conquer-all/msg986130/#msg986130
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ARE OTHER PLANETS INHABITED?
It should be added, because of the controversy which later centered around it, that this condemnation of Pope Zachary’s was not intended to mean that he condemned the opinion that the world was round and that men might easily be living on the other side of it – as some have tried to make out – for both Pope Zachary and Saint Boniface were well acquainted with the fact that the earth was round and one of the Doctors of the Church, the Venerable Bede, had expressly taught so. But he did condemn, and we have his words for it, the teaching of the existence of a race of men – on another planet – who were not, and who could not have been, descended from Adam and who were not ransomed by Christ.
- Fr. Feeney/St. Benedict Center
Can you please show that Pope Zachary did not intend condemn the opinion that the world was round? And that men might easily be living on the other side of it? History shows there is no doubt Pope Zachary fought the Pythagorean Doctrine promoting the globe and was certainly a fan of St. Augustine who condemned the ridiculous notion of the antipodes. All the heresies spouted in the Pythagorean Doctrine were in some way condemned because they all belong to the same theory.
"Such was the main result of this long war; but there were other results not so fortunate. The efforts of Eusebius, Basil, and Lactantius to deaden scientific thought (Pythagorean Doctrine); the efforts of Augustine to combat it; the efforts of Cosmas to crush it by dogmatism; the efforts of Boniface and Zachary to crush it by force, conscientious as they all were, had resulted simply in impressing upon many leading minds the conviction that science and religion are enemies. --AD White War Between Science and Theology
The great authority of Augustine, and the cogency of his scriptural argument, held the Church firmly against the doctrine of the antipodes; all schools of interpretation were now agreed--the followers of the allegorical tendencies of Alexandria, the strictly literals exegetes of Syria, the more eclectic theologians of the West. For over a thousand years it was held in the Church, "always, everywhere, and by all," that there could not be human beings on the opposite sides of the earth, even if the earth had opposite sides --AD White War Between Science and Theology
Of course, the Church, St. Augustine and other Fathers of the Church would have been in error for 1000 years if earth were a globe because everyone on earth would be an antipode.
St. Robert Bellarmine also dismissed the existence of other worlds born of the Pythagorean Doctrine.
No other worlds, no aliens.
"Bellarmine had studied an extensive theological literature that included writings by early Christian and numerous pagan authors, including Cicero and Porphyry. 233 Still, it is during the long proceedings against Bruno that we most clearly see the link between the Catholic denial of Earth’s motion and the heretical beliefs of the Pythagoreans: the existence of other worlds, the soul of the world and the transmigration of souls.” AA Martinez, Burned Alive
We can assume St. Bellarmine wasn't fond of the idea the earth was a globe. The following argument against the globe is found in the sixth argument against Galileo which also led to the condemnation of heliocentric theory because of the firmament that held water above the earth and beneath it. This argument also condemned the notion that the earth was outside the firmament moving in a circular motion as a 'Great Orb'. So he also didn't believe the earth was a globe. No globe, no aliens.
“According to Genesis 1, there are waters in heaven above the firmament and beneath it. ‘Therefore, the Earth’s Water is not contained only in the solidity of the Earth, and consequently the natural place of the Earth is not the centre, but possibly, outside it and carried in circular motion in a ‘Great Orb.’” AA Martinez
With Bellarmine backing the Church to condemn the Pythagorean Doctrine of the globe, only two reasons are formally cited in the trial. However, even more quotes from the arguments that led to those specific condemnations show that the entire theory was heretical. Why would anyone try to resurrect globes or aliens when they belong to a condemned doctrine of pedophilia, sodomy and child sacrifice?
The cult of Pythagoras was the continuation of the demonic mystery religions he learned in Egypt: the Kabbalah. --AA Martinez, Burned Alive
These perversities of the heliocentric Pythagorean model led Pope Urban VIII to say that the false Pythagorean doctrine was "the most perverse subject matter that one could ever handle. “Because it involved pedophilia, orgies, sodomy, and ritual child sacrifice. AA Martinez, Burned Alive
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Can you please show that Pope Zachary did not intend condemn the opinion that the world was round? And that men might easily be living on the other side of it? History shows there is no doubt Pope Zachary fought the Pythagorean Doctrine promoting the globe and was certainly a fan of St. Augustine who condemned the ridiculous notion of the antipodes. All the heresies spouted in the Pythagorean Doctrine were in some way condemned because they all belong to the same theory.
St. Robert Bellarmine also dismissed the existence of other worlds born of the Pythagorean Doctrine.
No other worlds, no aliens.
We can assume St. Bellarmine wasn't fond of the idea the earth was a globe. The following argument against the globe is found in the sixth argument against Galileo which also led to the condemnation of heliocentric theory because of the firmament that held water above the earth and beneath it. This argument also condemned the notion that the earth was outside the firmament moving in a circular motion as a 'Great Orb'. So he also didn't believe the earth was a globe. No globe, no aliens.
With Bellarmine backing the Church to condemn the Pythagorean Doctrine of the globe, only two reasons are formally cited in the trial. However, even more quotes from the arguments that led to those specific condemnations show that the entire theory was heretical. Why would anyone try to resurrect globes or aliens when they belong to a condemned doctrine of pedophilia, sodomy and child sacrifice?
First of all the global Earth of Pythagoreanism was never condemned.
There is not a mention of it in Bruno's trial or Galileo's.
Moreover;
https://archive.org/details/mindsascenttogod00bell/page/22/mode/2up
Page 22 of this book by Bellarmine he writes of a global Earth:
‘Who can find out the height of heaven, and the breadth of the earth, and the deep?’! And its greatness may also be understood from the fact that in so many thousand years that have passed since the beginning of the world, the whole surface of the earth (and this is what the wise man calls the breadth) has not yet become known to us men, even to those who carefully explore it. And if I ask what is the size of the earth compared with the circuit of the highest heaven, astronomers answer, and not inaptly, ‘ No more than a point.’ For we see that the rays of the sun reach out to the stars at the opposite end of the firmament as though no earth existed, though indeed it lies in the midst. And if it be, as is the general opinion of learned men, that every star in the firmament is larger than the whole globe of the earth, and yet these stars appear to be very small indeed on account of the enormous distance, who can conceive the extent of the sky in which so many thousand stars are shining? If then, in regard to the surface and the depth of the earth, the wise man said, ‘ The breadth of the earth and the depth of the abyss who can measure ?’
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First of all the global Earth of Pythagoreanism was never condemned.
There is not a mention of it in Bruno's trial or Galileo's.
Moreover;
https://archive.org/details/mindsascenttogod00bell/page/22/mode/2up
Page 22 of this book by Bellarmine he writes of a global Earth:
‘Who can find out the height of heaven, and the breadth of the earth, and the deep?’! And its greatness may also be understood from the fact that in so many thousand years that have passed since the beginning of the world, the whole surface of the earth (and this is what the wise man calls the breadth) has not yet become known to us men, even to those who carefully explore it. And if I ask what is the size of the earth compared with the circuit of the highest heaven, astronomers answer, and not inaptly, ‘ No more than a point.’ For we see that the rays of the sun reach out to the stars at the opposite end of the firmament as though no earth existed, though indeed it lies in the midst. And if it be, as is the general opinion of learned men, that every star in the firmament is larger than the whole globe of the earth, and yet these stars appear to be very small indeed on account of the enormous distance, who can conceive the extent of the sky in which so many thousand stars are shining? If then, in regard to the surface and the depth of the earth, the wise man said, ‘ The breadth of the earth and the depth of the abyss who can measure ?’
I'm honestly wondering what proof you have that the Earth is a globe?
No one can deny that the globe belongs to the Pythagorean Doctrine which was entirely and thoroughly condemned*. Flat earth cannot be summarily dismissed when it clearly existed in the histories of all ancient peoples before the heliocentric Copernican Pythagorean doctrine even came along. You will have to prove the globe was not included in the condemnation of the Pythagorean replacement theory that was always promoted by pagans and heretics. 3 Popes condemned it and you want to preserve the contradictory globe? For what reason? The very first cosmology, dogmatically taught in Scripture says Earth has a foundation, a firmament, and water above the Earth. No globe model even pretends to account for a foundation, or a firmament, let alone water above the Earth. Why contend with Scripture? Certainly no globe model has what St. Augustine called an impassable boundary that, according to Scripture sits like a vault or dome or a tent over the Earth. Bellarmine certainly believed it.
“According to Genesis 1, there are waters in heaven above the firmament and beneath it." From the arguments against Galileo. AA Martinez, Burned Alive
“Furthermore, Bellarmine reasserted traditional interpretations of scriptures. So he denied the Earth’s motion. In 1611 Bellarmine quoted Psalm 103:5 from the Latin Vulgate, that God established the Earth on its foundations, it cannot be moved forever and ever’. Bellarmine commented that God put Earth in the centre of the world, and that its ‘weight rests on its eternal stability’.159 He also 136 quoted Psalm 118:8, that God ‘established the Earth and permanently’. AA Martinez, Burned Alive
Galileo's works advocating Copernicanism were therefore banned, and his sentence prohibited him from "teaching, defending… or discussing" Copernicanism. AA Martinez
If drawings and descriptions were not supplied by Scripture and every ancient civilization to include the Fathers and Saints well before the Pythagorean globe, you'd have more round ground to stand on. But there's evidence the Church was against the entire doctrine and condemned it totally. This doctrine continues to this day, a pagan paradigm held by globalists and modern science as a stranglehold over Catholics now pitted against Scripture. If the following isn't condemnation of the globe included in the Pythagorean Doctrine, you have the burden to prove it was spared.
Following the Inquisition's injunction (1616) against Galileo, the papal Master of the Sacred Palace ordered that Foscarini's Letter be banned, and Copernicus' De revolutionibus suspended until corrected. The papal Congregation of the Index preferred a stricter prohibition, and so with the Pope's approval, on March 5 the Congregation banned all books advocating the Copernican system, which it called "the false Pythagorean doctrine, altogether contrary to Holy Scripture."*[2] --AA Martinez
As far as Bellarmine calling it the globe of the Earth, we've discussed this over and over. The entirety of Creation is globe shaped with a dome above, a pit below and the flat earth in the middle.
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I'm honestly wondering what proof you have that the Earth is a globe?
No one can deny that the globe belongs to the Pythagorean Doctrine which was entirely and thoroughly condemned*. Flat earth cannot be summarily dismissed when it clearly existed in the histories of all ancient peoples before the heliocentric Copernican Pythagorean doctrine even came along. You will have to prove the globe was not included in the condemnation of the Pythagorean replacement theory that was always promoted by pagans and heretics. 3 Popes condemned it and you want to preserve the contradictory globe? For what reason? The very first cosmology, dogmatically taught in Scripture says Earth has a foundation, a firmament, and water above the Earth. No globe model even pretends to account for a foundation, or a firmament, let alone water above the Earth. Why contend with Scripture? Certainly no globe model has what St. Augustine called an impassable boundary that, according to Scripture sits like a vault or dome or a tent over the Earth. Bellarmine certainly believed it.
“According to Genesis 1, there are waters in heaven above the firmament and beneath it." From the arguments against Galileo. AA Martinez, Burned Alive
“Furthermore, Bellarmine reasserted traditional interpretations of scriptures. So he denied the Earth’s motion. In 1611 Bellarmine quoted Psalm 103:5 from the Latin Vulgate, that God established the Earth on its foundations, it cannot be moved forever and ever’. Bellarmine commented that God put Earth in the centre of the world, and that its ‘weight rests on its eternal stability’.159 He also 136 quoted Psalm 118:8, that God ‘established the Earth and permanently’. AA Martinez, Burned Alive
Galileo's works advocating Copernicanism were therefore banned, and his sentence prohibited him from "teaching, defending… or discussing" Copernicanism. AA Martinez
If drawings and descriptions were not supplied by Scripture and every ancient civilization to include the Fathers and Saints well before the Pythagorean globe, you'd have more round ground to stand on. But there's evidence the Church was against the entire doctrine and condemned it totally. This doctrine continues to this day, a pagan paradigm held by globalists and modern science as a stranglehold over Catholics now pitted against Scripture. If the following isn't condemnation of the globe included in the Pythagorean Doctrine, you have the burden to prove it was spared.
Following the Inquisition's injunction (1616) against Galileo, the papal Master of the Sacred Palace ordered that Foscarini's Letter be banned, and Copernicus' De revolutionibus suspended until corrected. The papal Congregation of the Index preferred a stricter prohibition, and so with the Pope's approval, on March 5 the Congregation banned all books advocating the Copernican system, which it called "the false Pythagorean doctrine, altogether contrary to Holy Scripture."*[2] --AA Martinez
As far as Bellarmine calling it the globe of the Earth, we've discussed this over and over. The entirety of Creation is globe shaped with a dome above, a pit below and the flat earth in the middle.
Interesting. I provide evidence that you were wrong in saying Cardinal Robert Bellarmine was a flat earther.
The first sentence you reply with was 'I'm honestly wondering what proof you have that the Earth is a globe?;
I never said one word about proof that the Earth is a globe in my reply to you.
I also wrote that there was no Pythagorean heresy of a global heresy, you show us one in plain language?
I knew the word globe would be turned into a flat global earth.There is little point in arguing with FLrs as they ignore what they cannot answer and insist flat is a globe even to make Bellarmine a flat-earther.
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Interesting. I provide evidence that you were wrong in saying Cardinal Robert Bellarmine was a flat earther.
The first sentence you reply with was 'I'm honestly wondering what proof you have that the Earth is a globe?;
I never said one word about proof that the Earth is a globe in my reply to you.
I also wrote that there was no Pythagorean heresy of a global heresy, you show us one in plain language?
I knew the word globe would be turned into a flat global earth.There is little point in arguing with FLrs as they ignore what they cannot answer and insist flat is a globe even to make Bellarmine a flat-earther.
St. Bellarmine's reason for rejecting heliocentrism includes descriptions of the firmament, water above the earth and earth's foundation, none of which are even possible on a globe, so you proved nothing but ignored several valid proofs for flat earth. Bellarmine remains the premier authority defending the geocentric flat earth basing his assessment on Scripture while he supported the Church's condemnation of the doctrine that shamed God's Word with theories of evolution, aliens, and even worse, it makes globalism possible.
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Does anyone on CI believe in aliens? Hopefully not! :facepalm:
No, no... it's true!
The cops found some a a little over a year ago... under a ѕуηαgσgυє in New York.
(https://i.imgur.com/sUh8hfo.png)
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under a ѕуηαgσgυє in New York.
Is this related to the human trafficking tunnels?
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Is this related to the human trafficking tunnels?
Yes and my meaning is that such people who do this to their fellow man are "aliens" to the human race and indeed,
"...the enemies of all men until the end of time." as St. Paul forewarned us.
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Bellarmine remains the premier authority defending the geocentric flat earth
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St. Robert Bellarmine thought the earth was flat? I've never heard such a thing. This is quite a claim. Can you provide a quote where he said this?