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Author Topic: Pilots study guide says earth is flat and non moving  (Read 12804 times)

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Offline Neil Obstat

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Re: Pilots study guide says earth is flat and non moving
« Reply #45 on: February 28, 2018, 12:32:47 AM »
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  • So, for the flat earth proponents, why couldn't satellites work even in a flat earth model?

    from NASA's website:
    So what if these satellites were moving around in circles (like the sun and moon do on a flat earth model).  According to this, it's "moving SIDEWAYS" that keeps the object from being pulled down by gravity.  That can happen even if the object is moving around in circles above a flat earth.

    So, IMO, based on this, it would seem that the rejection of the existence/possibility of satellites would not be essential to flat earth theory.
    .
    Flat-earthers are at a loss to explain how the sun and moon remain mysteriously twirling around over their (non-existent) "flat" earth model, so how can you expect them to explain how satellites stay in orbit?
    .
    You see, if they could, they would say there is no moon and there is no sun.
    .
    But as it is they like to stick with "there are no satellites."
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Pilots study guide says earth is flat and non moving
    « Reply #46 on: February 28, 2018, 10:19:59 AM »
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  • .
    Why do satellites get photographs of Antarctica if the earth is "flat?"
    Why wouldn't they?
    https://imgur.com/sALtdpu


    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Pilots study guide says earth is flat and non moving
    « Reply #47 on: February 28, 2018, 10:32:08 AM »
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  • .
    Flat-earthers are at a loss to explain how the sun and moon remain mysteriously twirling around over their (non-existent) "flat" earth model, so how can you expect them to explain how satellites stay in orbit?
    .
    You see, if they could, they would say there is no moon and there is no sun.
    .
    But as it is they like to stick with "there are no satellites."
    .
    God keeps the sun & moon in their circuits.  Read your Bible.
    Satellites circuit because it was accelerated and is relatively light and has no air resistance.
    If slowed it would fall from its weight,  not gravity. 

    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Pilots study guide says earth is flat and non moving
    « Reply #48 on: February 28, 2018, 10:35:58 AM »
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  • Okay... let's assume the globe is flat.
    Why all the unnecessary toiling of suspending obects for the purpose of all communications then?

    By what FEer's are saying, it could be easily achieved by just a handful of towers... for example, I look out of my living room window everyday and see Mt. Wilson, elevation of 14,252' (14th highest peak in Colorado.) The tallest peak in all of North America would be Mt. Denali in Alaska, elevation 20,310'. The highest peak in all of the contiguous US would be Mt. Whitney in California, elevation 14,505'.

    By just these three peaks that I have mentioned, all navigation and communications would be made possible for all of the western United States, western Canada and much of Mexico.

    But, unfortunately the horizon just keeps getting in the way...
    Signal strength governs distance of radio waves, not horizon "Getting in the way."

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Pilots study guide says earth is flat and non moving
    « Reply #49 on: February 28, 2018, 12:42:57 PM »
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  • Signal strength governs distance of radio waves, not horizon "Getting in the way."

    Interestingly, proponents of globe earth claim that shortwave signals can travel around the globe because they bounce off the ionosphere.  But with flat earth such signal refraction (as they call it) would not be necessary.

    I wonder if this refraction off the ionosphere is just another way to hide flat earth.  If the earth is a globe, then how do radio waves travel so far, since they don't bend around the curvature?  Answer:  (surprise) refraction.

    Quote
    In radio communicationskywave or skip refers to the propagation of radio waves reflected or refracted back toward Earth from the ionosphere, an electrically charged layer of the upper atmosphere. Since it is not limited by the curvature of the Earth, skywave propagation can be used to communicate beyond the horizon, at intercontinental distances. It is mostly used in the shortwave frequency bands.


    Offline St Ignatius

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    Re: Pilots study guide says earth is flat and non moving
    « Reply #50 on: February 28, 2018, 02:09:39 PM »
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  • Interestingly, proponents of globe earth claim that shortwave signals can travel around the globe because they bounce off the ionosphere.  But with flat earth such signal refraction (as they call it) would not be necessary.

    I wonder if this refraction off the ionosphere is just another way to hide flat earth.  If the earth is a globe, then how do radio waves travel so far, since they don't bend around the curvature?  Answer:  (surprise) refraction.
    proponents of globe earth claim that shortwave signals can travel around the globe

    Actually, the claim isn't shortwave signals, but rather shortwave band or shortwave radio... I don't know off the top of my head why the term because it consists of long radio waves...

    Here's a nice basic study of the different types of waves and their characteristics...


    https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Radio_wave.html


    Radio wave
    This article is about the radiation. For the generic oscillation, see Radio frequency. For the electronics, see Radio frequency engineering.
    For other uses, see Radio Wave (disambiguation).


    Animation of a half-wave dipole antenna radiating radio waves, showing the electric field lines. The antenna in the center is two vertical metal rods, with an alternating current applied at its center from a radio transmitter (not shown). The voltage charges the two sides of the antenna alternately positive (+) and negative (−). Loops of electric field (black lines) leave the antenna and travel away at the speed of light; these are the radio waves. The action is drastically slowed down in this animation.
    [size={defaultattr}][font={defaultattr}]
    Radio waves are a type of electromagnetic radiationwith wavelengths in the electromagnetic spectrumlonger than infrared light. Radio waves havefrequencies as high as 300 GHz to as low as 3 kHz, though some definitions describe waves above 1 or 3 GHz as microwaves, or include waves of any lower frequency. At 300 GHz, the corresponding wavelength is 1 mm (0.039 in), and at 3 kHz is100 km (62 mi). Like all other electromagnetic waves, they travel at the speed of light. Naturally occurring radio waves are generated by lightning, or byastronomical objects.
    Artificially generated radio waves are used for fixed and mobile radio communicationbroadcastingradarand other navigation systems, communications satellites, computer networks and innumerable other applications. Radio waves are generated by radio transmitters and received by radio receivers. Different frequencies of radio waves have different propagation characteristics in the Earth's atmosphere; long waves can diffract around obstacles like mountains and follow the contour of the earth (ground waves), shorter waves can reflect off the ionosphere and return to earth beyond the horizon (skywaves), while much shorter wavelengths bend or diffract very little and travel on a line of sight, so their propagation distances are limited to the visual horizon.
    To prevent interference between different users, the artificial generation and use of radio waves is strictly regulated by law, coordinated by an international body called the International Telecommunications Union (ITU), which defines radio waves as "electromagnetic waves of frequencies arbitrarily lower than 3 000 GHz, propagated in space without artificial guide".[1] The radio spectrum is divided into a number of radio bands on the basis of frequency, allocated to different uses.[/font][/size]


    Diagram of the electric fields (E) and magnetic fields(H) of radio waves emitted by a monopole radio transmitting antenna (small dark vertical line in the center). The E and H fields are perpendicular as implied by the phase diagram in the lower right.
    [size={defaultattr}][font={defaultattr}]
    Discovery and utilization
    Main article: History of radio[/font][/size]


    Rough plot of Earth's atmospheric transmittance (or opacity) to various wavelengths of electromagnetic radiation, including radio waves.
    [size={defaultattr}][font={defaultattr}]
    Radio waves were first predicted by mathematical work done in 1867 by Scottish mathematical physicist James Clerk Maxwell.[2] Maxwell noticed wavelike properties of light and similarities in electrical and magnetic observations. His mathematical theory, now called Maxwell's equations, described light waves and radio waves as waves of electromagnetism that travel in space, radiated by a charged particle as it undergoes acceleration. In 1887, Heinrich Hertz demonstrated the reality of Maxwell's electromagnetic waves by experimentally generating radio waves in his laboratory,[3] showing that they exhibited the same wave properties as light: standing wavesrefraction,diffraction, and polarization. Radio waves were first used for communication in the mid 1890s byGuglielmo Marconi, who developed the first practical radio transmitters and receivers.
    Propagation
    Main article: Radio propagation
    The study of electromagnetic phenomena such asreflectionrefractionpolarizationdiffraction, andabsorption is of critical importance in the study of how radio waves move in free space and over the surface of the Earth. Different frequencies experience different combinations of these phenomena in the Earth's atmosphere, making certain radio bands more useful for specific purposes than others. Practical radio systems use three different techniques of radio propagation to communicate:[/font][/size]

    • Line of sight: This refers to radio waves that travel in a straight line from the transmitting antenna to the receiving antenna. It does not necessarily require a cleared sight path; at lower frequencies radio waves can pass through buildings, foliage and other obstructions. This is the only method of propagation possible at microwave frequencies and above. On the surface of the Earth, line of sight propagation is limited by the visual horizonto about 40 miles. It is the method used in short range radio communication systems such as cell phoneswalkie-talkieswireless networksFM andtelevision broadcasting and radar. By using dish antennas to transmit beams of microwaves, point-to-point radio relay links transmit telephone and television signals over long distances up to the visual horizon, and ground stations can communicate with satellites and spacecraft billions of miles from Earth.
    • Ground waves: At lower frequencies, in themedium wave and longwave bands, due todiffraction vertically polarized radio waves can bend over hills and mountains, and propagate beyond the horizon, traveling as surface waveswhich follow the contour of the Earth. This allows mediumwave and longwave broadcasting stations to have coverage areas beyond the horizon, out to hundreds of miles. As the frequency drops, the losses decrease and the achievable range increases. Military very low frequency (VLF) and extremely low frequency(ELF) communication systems can communicate over most of the Earth, and with submarines hundreds of feet underwater.
    • Skywaves: At medium wave and shortwavewavelengths, radio waves reflect off a conductiveionized layer in the atmosphere called theionosphere. So radio waves directed at an angle into the sky can return to Earth beyond the horizon; this is called "skip" or "skywave" propagation. By using multiple skips communication at intercontinental distances can be achieved. This technique is used by militaryover-the-horizon (OTH) radar systems, by radio amateurs, and by shortwave broadcasting stations to broadcast to other countries. Skywave propagation is variable and dependent on atmospheric conditions; it is most reliable at night and in the winter.
    [size={defaultattr}][font={defaultattr}]
    Speed, wavelength, and frequency
    Radio waves travel at the speed of light.[4][5] When passing through an object, they are slowed according to that object's permeability and permittivity.
    The wavelength is the distance from one peak of the wave's electric field (wave's peak/crest) to the next, and is inversely proportional to the frequency of the wave. The distance a radio wave travels in one second, in a vacuum, is 299,792,458 meters (983,571,056 ft) which is the wavelength of a 1 hertz radio signal. A 1 megahertz radio signal has a wavelength of 299.8 meters (984 ft).
    Radio communication
    Main article: Radio communication
    In order to receive radio signals, for instance fromAM/FM radio stations, a radio antenna must be used. However, since the antenna will pick up thousands of radio signals at a time, a radio tuner is necessary totune in a particular signal.[6] This is typically done via a resonator (in its simplest form, a circuit with acapacitorinductor, or crystal oscillator, but many modern radios use Phase Locked Loop systems). The resonator is configured to resonate at a particular frequency, allowing the tuner to amplify sine waves at that radio frequency and ignore other sine waves. Usually, either the inductor or the capacitor of the resonator is adjustable, allowing the user to change the frequency at which it resonates.[7]
    See also
    [/font][/size]

    Look up radio wave in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.

    [size={defaultattr}][font={defaultattr}]
    Notes[/font][/size]

    [size={defaultattr}][font={defaultattr}]
    References[/font][/size]



    [th]Radio spectrum (ITU)[/th]
    ELF 
    3 Hz/100 Mm 
    30 Hz/10 Mm
    SLF 
    30 Hz/10 Mm 
    300 Hz/1 Mm
    ULF 
    300 Hz/1 Mm 
    3 kHz/100 km
    VLF 
    3 kHz/100 km 
    30 kHz/10 km
    LF 
    30 kHz/10 km 
    300 kHz/1 km
    MF 
    300 kHz/1 km 
    3 MHz/100 m
    HF 
    3 MHz/100 m 
    30 MHz/10 m
    VHF 
    30 MHz/10 m 
    300 MHz/1 m
    UHF 
    300 MHz/1 m 
    3 GHz/100 mm
    SHF 
    3 GHz/100 mm 
    30 GHz/10 mm
    EHF 
    30 GHz/10 mm 
    300 GHz/1 mm
    THF 
    300 GHz/1 mm 
    3 THz/0.1 mm








    [th]Radiation (physics and health)[/th]
    [th]Main articles[/th]




    [th]Non-ionizing radiation[/th]
    [th]Ionizing radiation[/th]
    [th]Radiation and health[/th]
    [th]Related articles[/th]
    [th]Authority control[/th]
    This article is issued from Wikipedia - version of the 11/15/2016. The text is available under theCreative Commons Attribution/Share Alike but additional terms may apply for the media files.

    [/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table]

    Offline kiwiboy

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    Re: Pilots study guide says earth is flat and non moving
    « Reply #51 on: February 28, 2018, 02:26:05 PM »
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  • Sideways movement is enough to keep an object in the air on a round earth because the earth "falls away" from the satellite at the same rate that gravity* pulls it down (if you are at the right speed, something like this). On a flat earth, you would actually need upwards propulsion as well otherwise you would fall down.
    * or the "downy-pully-effect-that-causes-thing-to-fall" for you "gravity doesn't exist" pedants. I'm going to call it gravity, because that's easier to type than "downy-pully-effect-that-causes-thing-to-fall" There's a few places it comes up, but take, for example, the map drawn on the right side of this image. You have to project the round earth onto a flat map to make that map. The extreme example is that there's a line of code that explicitly handles what you do when you are sitting on top of the south pole and want to place an object sitting on the north pole. If you do the simplest flat projection, the north and south poles are in the same place, so you need to do some math to avoid that problem.

    You showed us neither the code nor the Math.

    Offline kiwiboy

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    Re: Pilots study guide says earth is flat and non moving
    « Reply #52 on: February 28, 2018, 02:27:17 PM »
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  • Interestingly, proponents of globe earth claim that shortwave signals can travel around the globe because they bounce off the ionosphere.  But with flat earth such signal refraction (as they call it) would not be necessary.

    I wonder if this refraction off the ionosphere is just another way to hide flat earth.  If the earth is a globe, then how do radio waves travel so far, since they don't bend around the curvature?  Answer:  (surprise) refraction.

    What are you talking about?

    Shortwave would need to bouce off the dome because the air is clearer and there is less interference. Globers call it the ionsphere, we call it the dome.


    Offline kiwiboy

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    Re: Pilots study guide says earth is flat and non moving
    « Reply #53 on: February 28, 2018, 02:27:45 PM »
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  • What are you talking about?

    Shortwave would need to bounce off the dome because the air is clearer and there is less interference. Globers call it the ionsphere, we call it the dome.

    Offline noOneImportant

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    Re: Pilots study guide says earth is flat and non moving
    « Reply #54 on: February 28, 2018, 05:42:45 PM »
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  • You showed us neither the code nor the Math.
    I'd prefer to keep my job, thanks. Here is a nice link off google with mathematical details if you're curious.

    Offline kiwiboy

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    Re: Pilots study guide says earth is flat and non moving
    « Reply #55 on: March 01, 2018, 06:25:19 AM »
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  • I'd prefer to keep my job, thanks.

    Understandable. But if you can't back up your claim, then you shouldn't have posted anything in the first place.


    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Pilots study guide says earth is flat and non moving
    « Reply #56 on: March 01, 2018, 08:03:57 AM »
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  • You showed us neither the code nor the Math.
    Orbital mechanics:
    www.braeunig.us/space/orbmech.htm

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Pilots study guide says earth is flat and non moving
    « Reply #57 on: March 01, 2018, 01:39:35 PM »
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  • Understandable. But if you can't back up your claim, then you shouldn't have posted anything in the first place.

    And I'm skeptical that he does what he claims.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Pilots study guide says earth is flat and non moving
    « Reply #58 on: March 01, 2018, 01:41:31 PM »
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  • What are you talking about?

    Shortwave would need to bouce off the dome because the air is clearer and there is less interference. Globers call it the ionsphere, we call it the dome.

    With flat earth they wouldn't NEED to bounce off anything.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Pilots study guide says earth is flat and non moving
    « Reply #59 on: March 01, 2018, 03:15:24 PM »
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  • With flat earth they wouldn't NEED to bounce off anything.
    .
    That is correct. If the earth were "flat" radio waves could travel in straight lines all over the earth.
    All one would need is a tall mountain on top of which to place the broadcast antennas.
    .
    We have that in Los Angeles on top of Mt. Wilson (where Edwin Hubble did his observations 100 years ago).
    .
    There are dozens of transmission stations atop Mt. Wilson which send radio and TV signals in all directions.
    .
    If the earth were "flat" those signals would travel across the Pacific Ocean and to Europe to the east.
    .
    But they only make it a few hundred miles, even with 50,000 watts of power.
    .
    Why so?
    .
    Because after a few hundred miles the earth's curvature blocks a direct line of transmission.
    .
    Aircraft flying high above the earth can still receive the signals, though.
    That's because they're flying high enough to still have a direct line of sight to Mt. Wilson.
    .
    Some nights when atmospheric conditions are right, AM radio stations reach further than otherwise.
    .
    That's because the waves can bounce off the upper atmosphere in some select situations.
    .
    But they can't bounce off the "ceiling" that way all the time, since the atmosphere is CHANGING.
    .
    If it were a "solid dome" it would not be changing. 
    .
    Therefore, flat-earthers have no case. As usual.
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.