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Author Topic: Photo I took tends to prove Flat Earth  (Read 31370 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Re: Photo I took tends to prove Flat Earth
« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2022, 12:51:34 PM »
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    • Quote from: roscoe on January 30, 2022, 12:44:02 PM
    Authority of The R C Church (Pope Alex VI, Columbus, Isabella, ) determined 500 yrs ago that E is globe. End of story

    Yes, I've seen the Bugs Bunny episode myself -- the one where Columbus is arguing the earth is round "like an orange" and the king is arguing it is flat "like a pancake". I haven't seen that episode for a few decades...

    It's a big canard though. Columbus sailing "around" the earth -- always E-W and never N-S -- doesn't prove globe earth at all.

    Did you go to Public School?

    I bet you believe that the cινιℓ ωαr was all about "slavery vs. no slavery" as well. Ha! That was maybe 15% of the reason for the cινιℓ ωαr.
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    Offline Dankward

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    Re: Photo I took tends to prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #46 on: January 30, 2022, 01:23:03 PM »
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    • Just to add my two cents, this is of course well examined and explained on the globe earth.

    These are called crepuscular rays (sometimes also "god rays"): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunbeam#Crepuscular_rays


    Look at the vertical angle of these rays, it looks like the Sun is actually going down below the mountain! Even if it wasn't yet physically below the horizontal plane of the observer, this is exactly what perspective does, and that also explains your image, Matthew. What you did was go out there trying to find evidence for FE. You came across crepuscular rays without knowing what they are and what their explanation is, yet tried to use it as FE evidence. This is called an argument from ignorance.

    There are also anti-crepuscular rays: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticrepuscular_rays
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Photo I took tends to prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #47 on: January 30, 2022, 01:38:56 PM »
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    • Quote from: roscoe on January 30, 2022, 12:44:02 PM
    Authority of The R C Church (Pope Alex VI, Columbus, Isabella, ) determined 500 yrs ago that E is globe. End of story

    Thank you Marion

    :incense:

    :facepalm:
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Photo I took tends to prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #48 on: January 30, 2022, 01:44:47 PM »
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    • Quote from: Dankward on January 30, 2022, 01:23:03 PM
    Just to add my two cents, this is of course well examined and explained on the globe earth.

    These are called crepuscular rays (sometimes also "god rays"): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunbeam#Crepuscular_rays

    There are also anti-crepuscular rays: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticrepuscular_rays

    Neither crepuscular nor anticrepuscular rays describe Matthew's picture.  Just read the definitions.

    I dispute that they are well examined and explained.  All I see are names given to things and gratuitous assertions (theories presented as fact, as is the tendency of modern science in general).

    As mentioned before, perspective plays a role when the light is coming TOWARD you (which is the explanation given for the crepuscular rays because the sun has to be low on the horizon.
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    Offline Dankward

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    Re: Photo I took tends to prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #49 on: January 30, 2022, 01:54:30 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on January 30, 2022, 01:44:47 PM
    Neither crepuscular nor anticrepuscular rays describe Matthew's picture.  Just read the definitions.

    I dispute that they are well examined and explained.  All I see are names given to things and gratuitous assertions (theories presented as fact, as is the tendency of modern science in general).

    As mentioned before, perspective plays a role when the light is coming TOWARD you (which is the explanation given for the crepuscular rays because the sun has to be low on the horizon.
    You're right, these are just standard sunbeams which shine through the clouds. A huge Sun at 93 million miles would still produce this result. Rays from different directions hit the cloud layer and pass through a small opening. Perspective makes them appear to converge to a close local point, just as railroad tracks make it seem as if they converged right at the horizon, which they obviously don't.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunbeam
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    Offline Jupiter

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    Re: Photo I took tends to prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #50 on: January 30, 2022, 01:58:36 PM »
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    • Buy a telescope, look at the other planets of our solar system, and see if you can find one that is not spherical in shape.

    You can also fly to either Quito, Ecuador and Nairobi, Kenya (cities on the equator) and you'll see Polaris on the northern horizon. Cape Town, South Africa and Melbourne, Australia are south of the equator. Fly to either and you won't see Polaris at all.

    There is also the fact that the force of gravity depends upon the distance between two interacting objects, and the only three-dimensional object you can make with a single distance is a sphere.

    There is also the very high probability that no one here is a physicist, cosmologist, or even any type of natural scientist so these discussions are unlikely to be resolved due to the nature of the persons engaging in them.
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    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: Photo I took tends to prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #51 on: January 30, 2022, 04:05:47 PM »
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    • Quote from: Jupiter on January 30, 2022, 01:58:36 PM
    There is also the very high probability that no one here is a physicist, cosmologist, or even any type of natural scientist so these discussions are unlikely to be resolved due to the nature of the persons engaging in them.

    An interesting "appeal to authority" considering the article you posted regarding the issue an heretical Roman Pontiff, etc.
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    Offline Jupiter

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    Re: Photo I took tends to prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #52 on: January 30, 2022, 04:24:14 PM »
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    • Quote from: gladius_veritatis on January 30, 2022, 04:05:47 PM
    An interesting "appeal to authority" considering the article you posted regarding the issue an heretical Roman Pontiff, etc.

    My comment was more an observation than an appeal. Since many of the commentators on this topic (seemingly) lack the pre-requisite training (formal or otherwise) necessary to discuss the scientific intricacies and complexities intrinsically associated with the subject matter, it is unlikely to be resolved definitively one way or another to everyone’s satisfaction.

    The lack of individual thorough scientific knowledge will naturally lead to technical misunderstandings, jargonistic exploitations, sophistry, and confusion by those more versed on the issue.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Photo I took tends to prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #53 on: January 31, 2022, 05:37:01 AM »
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    • Quote from: Jupiter on January 30, 2022, 01:58:36 PM
    Buy a telescope, look at the other planets of our solar system, and see if you can find one that is not spherical in shape.

    Lame.  You can't tell whether something is spherical by looking at it.

    https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=404885936925227 -- start at the 2-minute mark.

    And even if were to turn out that the bodies moving around the earth are spherical, that doesn't address the shape of the earth.  You're begging the question regarding the nature of the "solar system".
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Photo I took tends to prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #54 on: January 31, 2022, 05:47:54 AM »
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    • Quote from: Jupiter on January 30, 2022, 01:58:36 PM
    You can also fly to either Quito, Ecuador and Nairobi, Kenya (cities on the equator) and you'll see Polaris on the northern horizon. Cape Town, South Africa and Melbourne, Australia are south of the equator. Fly to either and you won't see Polaris at all.

    There is also the fact that the force of gravity depends upon the distance between two interacting objects, and the only three-dimensional object you can make with a single distance is a sphere.

    You've joined the discussion late and these are already thoroughly debunked.  "Gravity" is unproven, and whether you should be able to see polaris depends on how far polaris actually is from the earth.

    We're allegedly hurtling through space at several million miles per hour, and yet Polaris hasn't moved an inch in centuries and all the other stars move around it.  Earth (allegedly) rotates at 1,000 MPH (at the equator), the it's moving 66,600 MPH around the sun.  Our Solar System is moving at about 450,000 MPH around our galaxy, ad the galaxy itself is moving 1.3 million MPH through the universe.  Yet the positions of the stars haven't changed for centuries.

    Equally absurd is the notion that we've seen the same face of the moon for centuries.  Its rotation would have to be synchronized with its revolution around the earth to the second.  If it were even a second off, it would change over the course of years and decades.  And this as scientists allege that it's moving away from the earth ... which means that it would have to slightly speed up its rotation even as it drifts away.

    Then the moon just so happens to be 400x smaller and at the same time 400x closer than the sun, allowing for eclipses as we experience them.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Photo I took tends to prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #55 on: January 31, 2022, 06:00:31 AM »
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    • Quote from: Jupiter on January 30, 2022, 04:24:14 PM
    My comment was more an observation than an appeal. Since many of the commentators on this topic (seemingly) lack the pre-requisite training (formal or otherwise) necessary to discuss the scientific intricacies and complexities intrinsically associated with the subject matter, it is unlikely to be resolved definitively one way or another to everyone’s satisfaction.

    The lack of individual thorough scientific knowledge will naturally lead to technical misunderstandings, jargonistic exploitations, sophistry, and confusion by those more versed on the issue.

    Not true.  There are in fact scientists who hold that the earth is flat, such as Dr. John D from Bristol in England, who actually specializes in spectromery and has conducted rigorous scientific experiments demonstrating the flatness of the earth.

    Nevertheless, there are issues that can be investigated by any thinking person.  But the reason that "everyone's satisfaction" cannot be met is largely due to the fact that the globers are already dogmatically pre-convinced and will not honestly and objectively engage in the matter.  Most FE are open to any REAL evidence that might be brought to bear.  And this matter could be easily put to bed by the scientific establishment by, say, chartering a military aircraft and circuмnavigating Antarctica.  Bring FE proponents on board and allow them to make the measurements.  Similarly, they could have sent a Michelson-Morley apparatus to the moon and determined once and for all whether the earth is in motion and whether Einstein's theories are so much nonsense (invented to explain away Michelson-Morley).
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    Offline Jupiter

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    Re: Photo I took tends to prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #56 on: January 31, 2022, 10:55:02 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on January 31, 2022, 05:37:01 AM
    Lame.  You can't tell whether something is spherical by looking at it.

    https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=404885936925227 -- start at the 2-minute mark.

    And even if were to turn out that the bodies moving around the earth are spherical, that doesn't address the shape of the earth.  You're begging the question regarding the nature of the "solar system".

    Actually, you can. I have a high powered telescope and I clearly saw the spherical nature of the planets I observed.

    This isn’t a philosophical question. I am not making a logical argument. The spherical conformity of the planets in our solar system is based on empirical observation and extrapolation using basic principles of Cosmology and Physics.
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    Offline Jupiter

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    Re: Photo I took tends to prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #57 on: January 31, 2022, 11:13:43 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on January 31, 2022, 05:47:54 AM
    You've joined the discussion late and these are already thoroughly debunked.  "Gravity" is unproven, and whether you should be able to see polaris depends on how far polaris actually is from the earth.

    We're allegedly hurtling through space at several million miles per hour, and yet Polaris hasn't moved an inch in centuries and all the other stars move around it.  Earth (allegedly) rotates at 1,000 MPH (at the equator), the it's moving 66,600 MPH around the sun.  Our Solar System is moving at about 450,000 MPH around our galaxy, ad the galaxy itself is moving 1.3 million MPH through the universe.  Yet the positions of the stars haven't changed for centuries.

    Equally absurd is the notion that we've seen the same face of the moon for centuries.  Its rotation would have to be synchronized with its revolution around the earth to the second.  If it were even a second off, it would change over the course of years and decades.  And this as scientists allege that it's moving away from the earth ... which means that it would have to slightly speed up its rotation even as it drifts away.

    Then the moon just so happens to be 400x smaller and at the same time 400x closer than the sun, allowing for eclipses as we experience them.

    The scientific evidence for gravity is so overwhelming that to deny it is to deny the possibility of any kind of scientific knowledge.

    As for the rest of your post, it suffices to say that you are arguing from a “sense” perspective which is worthless in this discussion.
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    Offline Jupiter

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    Re: Photo I took tends to prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #58 on: January 31, 2022, 11:16:33 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on January 31, 2022, 06:00:31 AM
    Not true.  There are in fact scientists who hold that the earth is flat, such as Dr. John D from Bristol in England, who actually specializes in spectromery and has conducted rigorous scientific experiments demonstrating the flatness of the earth.

    Nevertheless, there are issues that can be investigated by any thinking person.  But the reason that "everyone's satisfaction" cannot be met is largely due to the fact that the globers are already dogmatically pre-convinced and will not honestly and objectively engage in the matter.  Most FE are open to any REAL evidence that might be brought to bear.  And this matter could be easily put to bed by the scientific establishment by, say, chartering a military aircraft and circuмnavigating Antarctica.  Bring FE proponents on board and allow them to make the measurements.  Similarly, they could have sent a Michelson-Morley apparatus to the moon and determined once and for all whether the earth is in motion and whether Einstein's theories are so much nonsense (invented to explain away Michelson-Morley).

    “Dr.” John D from Bristol is a pseudonym. Moreover, his credentials are suspect and his work shoddy amateurish pseudoscience.

    Anything less than putting you on a spaceship and taking you out to orbit to see with your eyes that the earth is a globe will not convince you.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Photo I took tends to prove Flat Earth
    « Reply #59 on: January 31, 2022, 11:22:21 AM »
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    • Quote from: Jupiter on January 31, 2022, 11:16:33 AM
    Anything less than putting you on a spaceship and taking you out to orbit to see with your eyes that the earth is a globe will not convince you.

    I don't think that either side can really be proven, but we can still debate and respect the opinion of others. After all, the Church has not ruled on the subject.

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