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Author Topic: Patent Falsehoods by happenby  (Read 2951 times)

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Offline Neil Obstat

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Re: Patent Falsehoods by happenby
« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2018, 02:26:55 AM »
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  • Right where it belongs: at the top of the page!
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    So much material, so little time! Apparently they need a lot more than just a MONTH.
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    This redundancy of false platitudes and mundane canards has been going on for so long, it would be nice to see a list of them.

    FALSE STATEMENTS -- All by one CI member: happenby
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    [Followed by my comments in brackets]
    ______________________________________________________________________
    This was a post by happenby, referenced by the * (underlined asterisk) at the end of each of her posts -- if no asterisk is there the quote is sourced at the previous asterisk. Click on it to see her original post, if you would like to verify the source:
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    Happenby said:
    The sun leaves plenty of evidence it moves over a flat earth when it leaves a trail of light on the ocean from the shore at sunset which is traceable back to the sun, something impossible if earth were a globe because light doesn't bend. *
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    Here is my response, in bold, italics and brackets:
    [Incorrect. The light trail on the ocean has utterly nothing to do with your nonsense "flatness" of the earth.]
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    Another post by happenby:  (on the rest of the page I won't identify each of her posts, they're simply plain font)
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    In fact, the sun and moon faces are always facing toward earth.  We never see the backside of either. *
    [First, the sun doesn't move over a "flat" earth. The earth is spherical, evidence for which is abundant (q.v.), while zero evidence exists for your mundane "flatness" canard. The reflection of sunlight on the ocean is the reflection of the sun on the ocean, which is diffused by the oscillating faces of water ripples in all directions, a fact simply simulated by various computer models, among other methods. There is no substance in your mundane canard and false claim that the sun's light trail is "impossible" on the spheroidial earth, an overtly false platitude. It has nothing to do with light bending, but even if it did, light does bend as can be seen at the surface of water or a glass prism where it's separated into the colors of the rainbow. Every rainbow in the sky is showing us that light bends. Second, the side of the sun that currently faces the earth is moving constantly, such that over time this side rotates around the sun's horizon and we gradually see a different side of the sun, and in due time we eventually see the BACK SIDE of the sun which appears the same to a casual observer, but with identifying characteristics such as sun spots, we can definitely gauge the rotation of the sun on its own axis. Regarding the moon, it is apparently true that the same side continues to face the earth, however, a small percentage of the moon's "far side" becomes visible around its perimeter as the moon's alignment to the earth has a little wobble in it that shows up in an oscillating pattern over the months. If I can find the video that shows this I'll post it here.]
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    Gravity is a scam, unproven, unreasonable, untenable.  How can something draw all objects to itself and at the same time fail to do so all the time?  The idea of antipodes, people that walk upside down on one side of the earth as opposed to others is condemned by the Church. (ibid.)
    [Nonsense. More false platitudes and mundane canards! Gravity is the name given to the observed phenomena of the manner by which two physical and proximate material bodies consistently evince a force of acceleration toward each other which is a force directly proportional to their respective masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them. Flat-earthers have no description that quantifies this cause-effect relationship and pretend that no such description is possible. Their obstreperous nescience tells its own story. The force of gravity is very small so flat-earther accusation that it "fails to do so all the time" is nonsense. Empirical evidence clearly says the contrary. For small objects this force is too weak to be barely measurable. At least one much larger mass is necessary. The silly canard of "antipodes" is anachronous nonsense. People aren't "walking upside-down" when you're comparing their orientation to other people consistently 8,000 miles away from them.]
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    The Church maintains the literal interpretation of scriptural flat earth. Catholics should not summarily dismiss these things when their understanding of some of the dynamics of the earth do not add up for them.
    [You ought to consider taking your own advice. You have no idea what the Church teaches, because she definitely does NOT teach "the literal interpretation of scriptural flat earth." Because it is YOUR understanding of some of the dynamics of the earth don't add up for YOU. The FACT is the Church has never proposed nor supported any Scriptural doctrine of a "flat" earth -- that's just a malicious lie perpetrated by atheist charlatans who you have mistaken for Christians, which makes it look like you wouldn't know a Christian if you met one.]
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    Global geocentrism simply doesn't work.  Where is the firmament on this so-called globe? *
    [Wrong. It's "flat" earthism that simply doesn't work. Flat-earthism is wrong and unworkable any way you slice it! By the firmament is understood the entire space between earth and the nearest stars, according to the Church. You ought to crack open a Bible sometime and learn something for once.]
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    If the sun is indeed inside such a dome structure as scripture describes, then the dome is at least 100 million miles away in order to accommodate the distant sun?  Globe earth is a constant contradiction.
    [There is no "dome," another mundane canard. Scripture has no mention of any "dome." It is not the place of the Bible to proclaim physical realities that we can observe for ourselves, but in any case, the sun is located between the earth and the nearest stars, so that fits just fine here, if that's what's important to you. BTW the Church does not teach the existence of any so-called dome, as you claim: more patent falsehoods.]
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    God's description of flat earth denies the globe and anyone familiar with scripture knows it.  The more people deny flat earth, the more they show their ignorance of scripture. *
    [Mundane platitudes and false canards again. God never has and never will describe the earth as being "flat."]
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    No backside of the sun, bud.  Proven a myriad of times by many people.  I'd post a video, but ppl don't seem to view them.  Get yourself a Nikon P900 and sun lenses and view for yourself.  There are dots on the sun that rotate around like a wheel but never disappear.  The sun turns like a wheel with its face facing earth. *
    [Patent falsehood again. The sun doesn't "turn like a wheel." You are entirely ignorant of how to make simple observations! If you want to see what an astronomical body is doing you have to orient your axis of reference according to the earth's axis. If you were standing at the north pole (not MAGNETIC north!), this would work, but you'd have to be content with observing the sun for a few days near the summer solstice. Further south from there, you have to mount your camera on a tripod that allows its direction to turn about an axis parallel with the one through (true) north and (true) south poles. This means that even watching something like the moon move across the sky, you have to lean your head backwards at the degrees of your latitude (so as to imitate how the camera moves) so that Polaris is directly above your head and then you have to look straight forward without turning your eyes right to left. Then when you've seen the moon rise in the east you've turned your head all the way to the LEFT, and as the moon rises, you're looking straight AHEAD, and as the moon sets, you've turned your head all the way to the RIGHT. In this way you'll see the moon's appearance remains constantly the SAME from rise to set, and this is likewise accurately found by keeping your camera (or head and neck) parallel to the earth's axis and your line of sight perpendicular to that axis. But you and your flat-earthdown-syndromers will NEVER do that because you're NOT INTERESTED in the truth.]
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    So far, I've not seen one proof for round earth that holds up to scrutiny, yet they claim 50.  No empirical proof.  No verifiable experiments. No personal hands on...  Just lots of talk, parroting and videos supporting NASA, a freemasonic institution bent on destruction of the sciences.  The answer is obvious.  Earth is not a globe. *
    [You have been shown NUMEROUS objective observations and practices that support the sphericity of the earth but you refuse to understand them. You run away and HIDE from the first step in any of these exercises because you know (like a Protestant) that it leads to your having to make an important decision which you DON'T WANT TO MAKE so you take a left turn off the path of true knowledge and head for the land of the know-nothings with your flat-earthdown-syndrome buddies! A very Protestant way to go. There are a LOT more than 50 reasons earth is NOT FLAT. Empirical evidence is all around us, but your mundane canard of "no empirical proof, no verifiable experiments, no personal hands-on" is its own lie. This patent falsehood and mundane canard of "just lots of talk, parroting and videos..." is EXACTLY WHAT FLAT-EARTHERS ARE DOING. Are you Jєωιѕн? You certainly act like it. You do the very thing that you accuse of others while you continue to do them yourself. VERY Jєωιѕн of you! Did you learn that in the тαℓмυd or did a Rabbi teach you, while he turns his head and SPITS at the mention of Our Lord's name?]
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    Planets are not worlds, so they aren't globes.  The so-called planets, Mars, Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, etc, are wandering STARS. *
    [You could teach a course on obstreperous nescience. How can you expect to be taken seriously when you conflate the other planets, "Mars, Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, etc." as "wandering STARS?" If you had the courage of your own so-called convictions, you would join an amateur astronomy club and learn some of the basics. This is easily grasped by 7 year-old boys with a telescope and a sky chart. Very few girls have any interest in astronomy, for whatever reason. Is that your excuse??]
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    Without evidence, something by way of science... or even empirical or personal proof, there is no case for globe earth... there isn't even one solid proof! *
    [The evidence for sphericity of planet earth is in ENORMOUS abundance, but you simply refuse to pay attention.]
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    Sailors always used geometry and plane sailing. By definition plane sailing is sailing on a course plotted without reference to the curvature of the earth. They never carried globes, but plotted on flat maps.
    [Every course that teaches plane sailing anywhere on earth BEGINS with the definition that it only works for regions of less than 600 kilometers, because any more than that errors are introduced consequent to the curvature of the earth. Flat maps are used because paper lies flat, for one, and because, two, the small errors resulting from presuming the spherical earth is "flat" are less than about 100 meters around your vessel, so it's not considered significant. You get as much error from rounding off one less decimal place in your calculations.]
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    Tradition teaches there is a firmament. Solid dome, like a tent. Water is above the dome and below the dome. Earth below the dome. Sun/moon/stars inside the dome. *
    [There is no "dome" in the Bible. The Church does not teach any "dome." There is no "dome" in Catholic Tradition. False platitude and mundane canard! Traditionally, by "a firmament" (Gn. 1:6) is understood the whole space from the surface of earth to the nearest stars. Water as vapor is suspended in the clouds above the earth. There is no "dome" - another flat-earthdown-syndrome mundane canard and false platitude.]
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    Surface of water never curves, small drops excepted. Water must be contained and it's surface always settles flat. It is impossible for water to wrap around the outside of a ball. *
    [The surface of water absolutely DOES curve. Look up "meniscus" or check out free-fall videos with ambient air pressure. The shape of a body of water conforms to the boundaries of its container, and left to its own cohesion and surface tension, it naturally forms a spheroid when free of other outside forces such as air currents or sound waves. The depth of the oceans is very small compared to the diameter of the earth, and would constitute approximately the thickness of a piece of paper when applied to a 12" diameter globe model. If the earth as such a globe model were covered by a curved paper towel, using all the water on earth there would hardly be enough area to get wet before you run out of water. To the scale of the 12" globe 14 ml of water would cover the entire planet, since most of the earth's lakes would be thinner than the thickness of a coat of paint. In any case, even without gravity doing the job, the water would wrap around the model just fine.]
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    It remains that no curvature of the earth has ever been demonstrated. [FALSE] Further, things like lighthouses, gyros, sundials, bubble levels, compasses, astrolabes and sextants were developed by people with the horizontal plane in mind. [FALSE] For good reason. Earth is a plane. *
    [All falsehood. Patent falsehoods and mundane false canards from a flat-earthdown-syndromer. Sundials were developed for the purpose of keeping track of time by observing the shadow cast by a stationary reference pole, and they are custom-made for your own latitude. I know, it's embarrassing when you realize you didn't know that. Regardless of what month of the year it is, your own location uses its own sundial that would be inaccurate when placed in a different latitude, a fact that makes absolutely no sense for a 'FLAT' earth, but it makes TOTAL sense for a spheroidal earth.]
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    If you blow a dandelion seed out of your hands, a substance just barely heavier than the air, it will float away and slowly but eventually fall to the ground. And if you drop an anvil from your hands, something much heavier than the air, it will quickly and directly fall straight to the ground.
    [Incorrect. The weight of a dandelion seed is irrelevant. In a vacuum it falls to the ground just as fast as a brick or an ANVIL. The seed with tendrils splaying out in all directions picks up air currents and it's the friction of air pulling and pushing on the tendrils of the seed that make it drift along. If the wind doesn't die down the dandelion seed will REMAIN AIRBORNE, by which means the seeds are able to travel great distances, which is how dandelions grow on desert islands in the ocean.]

    Now, this has absolutely nothing to do with “gravity.” The fact that light things rise up and heavy things fall down is simply a natural property of weight. *
    [This mundane canard of the obstreprously nescient flat-earthdown-syndromers is getting so tiresome and old-hat! You deny the objectively observed effects of gravity and claim this "weight" thing, which you utterly fail to define. Problem is, weight is a function of gravity so if you deny gravity (which you attempt to do) you consequently deny weight. Oh, but wait! You deny gravity but AFFIRM weight! How Jєωιѕн of you. Did you learn that in the тαℓмυd or did a Rabbi teach it to you while he turns his head and spits at the mention of Our Lord's name?]
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    The mechanical ability of a sextant to view by line of site, with reflection of mirrors (another direct line of site) with angles provided by the tool for determining position actually makes no sense whatsoever if the earth were a globe. [FALSE]  All horizontal and vertical lines of site and direct reflections from mirrors would be in error when applied to a curved object.  [FALSE]
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    In fact, the arc [Naut.mi. = minute of arc at the equator] is a degree of a circle [actually not a degree but a minute of arc] used in relation to angles and lines to denote distance and has zero to do with a globe earth. *
    ["The arc" is NOT "a degree of a circle." You are ignorant of arcs, sextant use, celestial navigation and spherical trigonometry! Nonetheless you pretend to be an expert. How sad! More like an expert charlatan! The use of the sextant to measure angles between heavenly bodies and the horizon, over extended periods of time, makes utterly no sense unless the earth is spheroidal. It takes more than one or two sightings to arrive at this conclusion, however. One must compare sightings from various directions to various astronomical bodies over a period of days or even weeks before it becomes evident. The changes in the orientation of these bodies is only explained by a spheroidal planet earth. ]
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    Now that we have well established that a sextant is designed to work with parallel lines, reflecting mirrors, line of sight and degrees of an arc, (not the globe earth,) that they measure planes, and that the measurements are recorded on a grid map, I think its safe to say, along with gyros, astrolabes, compasses, bubble levels etc, the earth measured by such things is proven not a globe. [It's rather safe to say, "YOU'RE WRONG."]
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    Ok, do show, anything at all, that proves curve commensurate with a 24,000 mile ball.  Your own personal tests, someone else's tests, photos, whatever.  Please only untouched, non cgi, not photoshopped evidence.  But I'll take anything at all. [False. Everything you're given you reject out of hand.] No one to date has produced this evidence and I've been doing flat earth for almost 10 years now. [False. You refuse to look at what you're given.] Why?  Because they know it doesn't exist. *
    [No, you refuse to look because you know you'll have to make an informed decision, and knowing that you don't WANT to make an informed decision, you deliberately make an abrupt LEFT TURN off of the way to truth, like a PROTESTANT, in order to avoid having to make that choice in the future.]
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    We know for certain that ships do not disappear over the curve. [FALSE] We know for certain that the horizon rises to eye level no matter how high one goes,[FALSE] and that on a ball, the horizon would actually descend in order to be a ball [FALSE]... We know for certain that there is a hard dome above earth [FALSE] forming a tent like structure over the earth with water above the dome. *
    [All wrong. You have all your facts mixed up and apparently you enjoy being wrong all the time. Are you Jєωιѕн? Or Protestant?]
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    The Church also teaches that the sun, moon and stars reside inside a visible firmament [Wrong] that is laid out as a firm boundary, like a tent, between heaven and earth.
    [The firmament as such is not "visible."]
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    Verifying measurements to the sun/moon can be done by anyone at all and most certainly do not add up to millions of miles for sun or hundreds of thousands of miles for the moon.  Scripture alone should suffice to prove sun and moon are in the firmament, relatively small and nearby. *
    [Simple, repeatable experiments I have repeatedly described, you consistently refuse to try yourself. Anyone can do them, and they have been done for thousands of years all ready. You don't like that fact, do you? No, you don't! Scripture is not the place to look for any such information. Scripture does not "prove" the location of the sun or moon or Polaris or Antarctica or anything else.]
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    Geocentrism is flat earth.[False]  There is no such thing as a globe hanging in space. [Who said it's "hanging in space?"] This fallacy came about when Catholics realized earth was not moving and assumed it was a globe.  The earth has a foundation.  The globe is not founded, but admittedly dangling. *
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    Modern Geocentrism, (MG) with its stationary globe hanging in space is a theory incompatible with scripture and historical Geocentric cosmology. *
    [Patently false platitude and mundane canard.]
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    So BUMPH, as tradition reveals, earth is flat. [Nope...]
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    The Church has spoken. Earth is flat and geocentric. * [Wrong again.]
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    Polaris can be seen, however, up to approximately 23.5 degrees South latitude. *
    [False canard and patent lie. Nobody at sea level south of the equator can see Polaris. Nobody.]
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    "It has often been urged that the earth must be a globe, because the stars in the southern ‘hemisphere’ move round a south polar star
    [strawman]; in the same way that those of the north revolve round the northern pole star. This is another instance of the sacrifice of truth, and denial of the evidence of our senses [Nope.] for the purpose of supporting a theory which is in every sense false and unnatural." *
    [A referenced quote, but false nonetheless]
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    The convergence of sun and earth is known as sunrise and sunset.  When the sun goes beyond these points, being too low to be resolved by the eye from that level, it thus disappears. *
    [Garbage. This favorite false canard and patent lie of flat-earthdown-syndromers doesn't even have the RING of truth. Maybe flat-earthdown-syndromers are tone deaf?]
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    I talk about flat earth where ever I go. [Maybe you ought to be arrested for terrorism!] Its been a long and difficult haul, but we need Catholics to rebuild what is necessarily Catholic! [Flat-earthdown-syndrome is NOT CATHOLIC.] We need people to go through Church docuмents, read saints and unearth gold. [For your golden-calf false-god of flattardom?] And believe me, its out in them there hills!  We need researchers, youtubers, teachers, apologists, priests who can handle the heat, brave moms and dads! *
    [Flat-earthism has absolutely nothing to do with Catholicism. You're wasting your time. Can't you find something productive to do for a change? What you're doing is working to DESTROY the CREDIBILITY of the CHURCH (as though that needs your help).]
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    Nothing is true where the terrain is said to be a globe.[False.]  The horizon is not horizontal.[False.]  Level horizon is not level but curved.[False.] There is no up on a globe, only out.[False.]  No down, no positional east or west. * [False.]
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    Scripture has most certainly defined the shape of the earth [False.]... its references and descriptions of earth make round earth totally impossible. *
    [Again, it's not the place of Scripture to define that which can be measured or ascertained by physical sense perception ALONE.]
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    All the lines and polka dots in the world will never make earth a globe. *
    [Who cares about lines and polka dots? Are you the fashion police now?]
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    If indeed there is a "south pole",[We know, flat-earthers have SUCH a hard time with the south pole!!!] how can that one point or pole be demonstrated with a compass? [Ask anyone who has been there, a compass works okay CLOSE to Antarctica but it doesn't do much good ON Antarctica because you're too close to magnetic south and the compass needle drags. They have to have an adjustable counterweight which is really tricky business, especially with cold fingers.] The needle arrow points north only. [One end points north the other end points south.] The the opposite side of the needle, when turning around the north,[Turning around?] draws a circle in the outer regions [Are you hallucinating now?] showing there is only one pole--north.[Someone gave you bad information or else this is your brain on drugs.]  The southern region is as scripture describes, "encompassed", as in a "circle" of land within the great deep. [Do you consult Scripture before you decide which groceries to buy at the market? Or do you consult your medium with a crystal ball? Woops-- Tarot cards (they're flat!)]  The outer regions have not yet been fully circuмnavigated, but the compass and scripture agree that earth is not a globe. *
    [All completely false -- The compass does point south with the opposite end of the same arrow that points north; There are two poles, north and south; Scripture has nothing to do with this discussion;  The entire earth has been circuмnavigated every which way; The compass does not conflict with scripture but that's irrelevant.]
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    Actually, I agree with the fact that there is a directional south.  But the compass still does not work on a globe, and will only point to true south in very limited circuмstances because the back end of a compass draws a circle as one goes around the north.[This is your brain on drugs again. Better watch out or CPS will come and take away your children.] This is simply a fact regarding the compass. [This is simply a patent falsehood of flat-earthdom-syndromers.]  But none of this is inconsistent with a flat earth. [Wrong.] A compass, held flat at the equator can never point to the north pole on a globe because the needle will be perpendicular to north while one holds it standing on any side of the ball, proving that earth is not a globe. *
    [You were obviously never a girl scout because you have no idea how a compass is used or how it works. One end of the compass needle points north at the equator absolutely, while the other end points south, and the lines of magnetic flux are parallel with the earth's surface there too, which makes the compass work so well. Very simple. But you missed that girl scout lesson, apparently. Scouting lasts a lifetime, and missing it lasts even longer, I guess.]
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    Please. [No, I insist.] A compass works within the magnetic fields of EARTH. [And, therefore....?]  The north "pole" to be exact. [The compass in fact works OUTSIDE the north pole.]  Necessarily, were anyone to locate the north pole with a compass,[That would be the MAGNETIC north pole, NOT true north!] they would have to be on the same level as the north pole, or the compass wouldn't work, [Actually the opposite is the case: a compass does NOT work directly over the north pole! Ask any meteorologist, ESPECIALLY one who's been there.] since the compass necessarily must be held level. [Wrong. Some compasses must be held vertically.] Held level at the equator on a globe, a compass leaves a perpendicular line that points out in space, not to the pole. * [No, held level at the equator a common compass needle is parallel with the magnetic lines of flux from the earth's field, and therefore works perfectly well.]

    [You really are clueless when it comes to compass use.]
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    No one is certain exactly what the flat earth map looks really looks like. [...looks really looks...?]
    [Correct, for once, however, the typo is incorrect. So even when you're right, you're wrong! NOBODY KNOWS what the flat-earth map looks like because there's no way to make a flat-earth map that actually works because it's a stupid idea in the first place.]

    Nevertheless, there are so many proofs of flat earth.
    [Wrong. There are exactly ZERO "proofs" of "flat" earth. You just provided more evidence that flat-earthdown-syndromers are incurable!]  

    Scripture and the Church have been squarely in the flat earth camp since the beginning. *
    [Absolutely wrong. The Church has never taught flat-earthdom and never will. Get over it!]
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    The fact Shaq showed back up to undo what he said is in itself laughable... Scripture is clear.  Earth is flat. *
    [False. Scripture has nothing to say about the earth being "flat" nor does Scripture have any relevance to the topic. And last and least of all, who cares what Shaq thinks? Oh, wait, he can't think.]
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    St. Augustine, Severian, Bshp of Gabala, St. Jerome, Cosmas, Methodius, St. John Chrysostom and many others confirmed earth is flat and geocentric, a snow globe, as it were... Ball geocentrism, supported by Sungenis-esque pagan authorities is no proof of anything except flat earth. *
    [Now the earth is a snow globe. Okay....NOT. Your list is wrong. No Church Fathers ever taught "flat" earth.]
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    There is a lot to know about flat earth. *
    [How about this one:  Flat-earthers have no model therefore they have no theory. Period. What else needs to be known?]
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    It is impossible that Jerusalem is the center of the earth if earth is a ball. *
    [Mexico City is at the geographical center of North and South America -- are you in SHOCK yet? ... How about now? ... ]
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    There is abundant proof that Christ approved of the Book of Enoch. *
    [False. The so-called Book of Enoch is apocryphal and could not have survived the Flood.]
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    Earth is not a globe. *
    [False. Earth is absolutely globe-like.]
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    Another ridiculous notion: God can do anything... so He does the ridiculous.  The extremes global earth defenders go to maintain the pagan theory of heliocentrism [strawman] is an embarrassment--to them.  Scripture, the saints and the Church, not to mention the reverse testimony of the pagans, teach that earth is not a globe. *
    [You said it: another ridiculous notion, that earth is not a globe. I guess you can be right sometimes!]  
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    Rainbows, northern lights and sundogs appear to reflect aspects of the dome as well. *
    [These have nothing to do with your fantasy solid material firmament which does not exist.]
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    Catholic perspective of flat earth from the ancients has been shared here and scientific proofs prove flat earth.
    [Incorrect.]
    Just picked up another traditional priest a couple days ago. FE is gaining ground in many traditional Catholic circles. Its only a matter of time... *
    [Flat-earthism has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with Catholicism. End of story.]
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    There are scientific proofs for flat earth numbering in the hundreds.  
    [Incorrect. There are NONE.]

    Not to mention the teachings from scripture, popes, saints and the Church backing up the obvious geocentric nature of earth.  Scripture details clearly that there is a firmament dividing heaven and earth and that the lights in the firmament move over and across the face of the earth and therefore cannot possibly shine from hundreds of thousands of miles or millions of miles away.  Must be an awfully big dome to cover for that distant sun! Even if you reject truth for who knows what reason, you know scripture teaches about the firmament and the movement of the sun over the face of the earth.  
    [Wrong -- Scripture has exactly NOTHING to do with the question.]
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    Conversely, there are no proofs for round earth, except lies from Freemasons and pagans throughout history. *
    [Wrong. Freemasons are irrelevant. Reality dictates itself. There are proofs everywhere we look, but we have to look.]
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    The body of Our Lady is material and It is in heaven.  Heaven is a place.  Material place. *
    [Incorrect. Heaven is a non-material reality where the saints (generally speaking) there do not have their bodies -- YET. Our Lady is the exception.]
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    God is both spiritual AND material. Materially speaking, His name is Jesus. Mary is material. Heaven is a place that houses both persons, glorified material.  Heaven sits above the firmament as described by the saints and scripture and it is a material thing. *
    [Incorrect. God is spiritual. Read the Summa. Our Lord and Our Lady are both spiritual and material, but not material as we know it. Heaven is a spiritual place which will be REMADE after the Final Judgment and there will be a new earth the nature of which we cannot know now.]
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    [Perhaps this is the basis of your problem, happenby, you don't know anything about theology or eschatology.]


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    This redundancy of false platitudes and mundane canards has been going on for so long, it would be nice to see a list of them.
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Patent Falsehoods by happenby
    « Reply #31 on: July 19, 2018, 03:49:44 AM »
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  • Step away from the thesaurus, Neil, before you hurt yourself with it.  You sound like a 9th grader walking around trying hard to use the words he learned that day in vocabulary class.  That expression above doesn't even make sense ... it's absurd, a random concatenation of highfalutin verbiage.
    .
    By the way, Ladislaus, do yourself (and everyone else) a favor, and if you don't have an intelligent or substantive response, try to resist the urge to demonstrate your puerile ineptitude by hurling accusations for which you don't have any basis.

    Perhaps Ladislaus is not alone in being overwhelmed with large posts. So here, just for you and yours, I'll use quote boxes, and take the first few items off the top of the last large post, above:
    .
    Happenby said:

    Quote
    The sun leaves plenty of evidence it moves over a flat earth when it leaves a trail of light on the ocean from the shore at sunset which is traceable back to the sun, something impossible if earth were a globe because light doesn't bend. *.
    Here is my response, in bold, italics and brackets:
    .
    Incorrect. The light trail on the ocean has utterly nothing to do with your nonsense "flatness" of the earth. The sun doesn't move over a "flat" earth. The earth is spherical, evidence for which is abundant (q.v.), while zero evidence exists for your mundane "flatness" canard. 


    The reflection of sunlight on the ocean is the sunshine on the ocean, diffused by the oscillating faces of water ripples in all directions, a fact simply simulated by various computer models, among other methods. 

    There is no substance in your mundane canard and false claim that the sun's light trail is "impossible" on the spheroidial earth, an overtly false platitude. It has nothing to do with light bending, but even if it did, light does bend as can be seen at the surface of water or a glass prism where it's separated into the colors of the rainbow. Every rainbow in the sky is showing us that light bends.
    .
    Another post by happenby:


    Quote
    In fact, [No, it's not a "fact"] the sun and moon faces are always facing toward earth.  We never see the backside of either. *
    .
    Incorrect. The side of the sun that currently faces the earth is moving constantly, such that over time this side rotates around the sun's horizon (the sun's horizon, not the earth's) and we gradually see a different side of the sun, and in due time, we eventually see the entire BACK SIDE of the sun -- which appears the same to a casual observer, but with identifying characteristics such as sun spots, we can definitely gauge the rotation of the sun on its own axis. 

    This is something that was impossible for mankind to observe until just a few hundred years ago. Galileo went blind by looking into his telescope at the sun. Regarding the moon, it is apparently true that the same side continues to face the earth, however, a small percentage of the moon's "far side" (often mistakenly referred to as the "dark side") becomes visible around its perimeter as the moon's alignment to the earth has a little wobble in it that shows up in an oscillating pattern over the months.
    .


    Quote
    Gravity is a scam, unproven, unreasonable, untenable.  How can something draw all objects to itself and at the same time fail to do so all the time?  The idea of antipodes, people that walk upside down on one side of the earth as opposed to others is condemned by the Church. (ibid.)

    Nonsense. More false platitudes and mundane canards! Gravity is the name given to the observed phenomena of the manner by which two physical and proximate material bodies consistently evince a force of acceleration toward each other which is a force directly proportional to their respective masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them. Flat-earthers have no description that quantifies this cause-effect relationship and pretend that no such description is possible. Their obstreperous nescience tells its own story. 

    The force of gravity is very small so flat-earther accusation that it "fails to do so all the time" is nonsense. Empirical evidence clearly says the contrary. For small objects this force is too weak to be barely measurable. At least one much larger mass is necessary. Free suspension of very heavy objects do indeed demonstrate that they draw each other toward themselves.

    The silly canard of "antipodes" is anachronous nonsense. People aren't "walking upside-down" when you're comparing their orientation to other people consistently 8,000 miles away from them.

    Flat-earthers have resorted to this false claim that "gravity is a scam..." because it is impossible for them to reconcile observed reality with their own pet agenda flat-earthism.
    .


    Quote
    The Church maintains the literal interpretation of scriptural flat earth. [Wrong!] Catholics should not summarily dismiss these things when their understanding of some of the dynamics of the earth do not add up for them.

    You ought to consider taking your own advice! It's YOUR understanding that "doesn't add up!" 

    You have no idea what the Church teaches, because she definitely does NOT teach "the literal interpretation of scriptural flat earth." Only since YOUR understanding of some of the dynamics of the earth don't add up for YOU, you have assigned your misunderstanding to the Church! 

    The FACT is, the Church has never proposed nor supported any Scriptural doctrine of a "flat" earth -- that's just a malicious lie perpetrated by atheist charlatans whom you have mistaken for Christians, which makes it look like you wouldn't know a Christian if you met one.
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    Offline happenby

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    Re: Patent Falsehoods by happenby
    « Reply #32 on: July 19, 2018, 12:10:27 PM »
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  • Rattling on without proof doesn't change the facts.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Patent Falsehoods by happenby
    « Reply #33 on: July 19, 2018, 03:47:39 PM »
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  • Rattling on without proof doesn't change the facts.
    .
    Once again proving you have nothing to contest. You've been "rattling on without proof" for many months, which see.
    Then I provide specific arguments, with evidence, and this is your reply? Too funny.  :jester:
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    Careful -- don't upset Ladislaus with vocabulary he hasn't approved of beforehand! HAHAHAHAHA
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Patent Falsehoods by happenby
    « Reply #34 on: August 18, 2018, 04:03:27 AM »
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  • Right where it belongs: at the top of the page!
    .
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    So much material, so little time! Apparently they need a lot more than just a MONTH. <---Right. Even 2 months isn't enough!
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    This redundancy of false platitudes and mundane canards has been going on for so long, it would be nice to see a list of them.

    FALSE STATEMENTS -- All by one CI member: happenby
    .
    .
    [Followed by my comments in brackets]
    ______________________________________________________________________
    This was a post by happenby, referenced by the * (underlined asterisk) at the end of each of her posts -- if no asterisk is there the quote is sourced at the previous asterisk. Click on it to see her original post, if you would like to verify the source:
    .
    Happenby said:
    The sun leaves plenty of evidence it moves over a flat earth when it leaves a trail of light on the ocean from the shore at sunset which is traceable back to the sun, something impossible if earth were a globe because light doesn't bend. *
    .
    .
    Here is my response, in bold, italics and brackets:
    [Incorrect. The light trail on the ocean has utterly nothing to do with your nonsense "flatness" of the earth.]
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    Another post by happenby:  (on the rest of the page I won't identify each of her posts, they're simply plain font)
    .
    In fact, the sun and moon faces are always facing toward earth.  We never see the backside of either. *
    [First, the sun doesn't move over a "flat" earth. The earth is spherical, evidence for which is abundant (q.v.), while zero evidence exists for your mundane "flatness" canard. The reflection of sunlight on the ocean is the reflection of the sun on the ocean, which is diffused by the oscillating faces of water ripples in all directions, a fact simply simulated by various computer models, among other methods. There is no substance in your mundane canard and false claim that the sun's light trail is "impossible" on the spheroidial earth, an overtly false platitude. It has nothing to do with light bending, but even if it did, light does bend as can be seen at the surface of water or a glass prism where it's separated into the colors of the rainbow. Every rainbow in the sky is showing us that light bends. Second, the side of the sun that currently faces the earth is moving constantly, such that over time this side rotates around the sun's horizon and we gradually see a different side of the sun, and in due time we eventually see the BACK SIDE of the sun which appears the same to a casual observer, but with identifying characteristics such as sun spots, we can definitely gauge the rotation of the sun on its own axis. Regarding the moon, it is apparently true that the same side continues to face the earth, however, a small percentage of the moon's "far side" becomes visible around its perimeter as the moon's alignment to the earth has a little wobble in it that shows up in an oscillating pattern over the months. If I can find the video that shows this I'll post it here.]
    .
    Gravity is a scam, unproven, unreasonable, untenable.  How can something draw all objects to itself and at the same time fail to do so all the time?  The idea of antipodes, people that walk upside down on one side of the earth as opposed to others is condemned by the Church. (ibid.)
    [Nonsense. More false platitudes and mundane canards! Gravity is the name given to the observed phenomena of the manner by which two physical and proximate material bodies consistently evince a force of acceleration toward each other which is a force directly proportional to their respective masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them. Flat-earthers have no description that quantifies this cause-effect relationship and pretend that no such description is possible. Their obstreperous nescience tells its own story. The force of gravity is very small so flat-earther accusation that it "fails to do so all the time" is nonsense. Empirical evidence clearly says the contrary. For small objects this force is too weak to be barely measurable. At least one much larger mass is necessary. The silly canard of "antipodes" is anachronous nonsense. People aren't "walking upside-down" when you're comparing their orientation to other people consistently 8,000 miles away from them.]
    .
    The Church maintains the literal interpretation of scriptural flat earth. Catholics should not summarily dismiss these things when their understanding of some of the dynamics of the earth do not add up for them.
    [You ought to consider taking your own advice. You have no idea what the Church teaches, because she definitely does NOT teach "the literal interpretation of scriptural flat earth." Because it is YOUR understanding of some of the dynamics of the earth don't add up for YOU. The FACT is the Church has never proposed nor supported any Scriptural doctrine of a "flat" earth -- that's just a malicious lie perpetrated by atheist charlatans who you have mistaken for Christians, which makes it look like you wouldn't know a Christian if you met one.]
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    Global geocentrism simply doesn't work.  Where is the firmament on this so-called globe? *
    [Wrong. It's "flat" earthism that simply doesn't work. Flat-earthism is wrong and unworkable any way you slice it! By the firmament is understood the entire space between earth and the nearest stars, according to the Church. You ought to crack open a Bible sometime and learn something for once.]
    .
    If the sun is indeed inside such a dome structure as scripture describes, then the dome is at least 100 million miles away in order to accommodate the distant sun?  Globe earth is a constant contradiction.
    [There is no "dome," another mundane canard. Scripture has no mention of any "dome." It is not the place of the Bible to proclaim physical realities that we can observe for ourselves, but in any case, the sun is located between the earth and the nearest stars, so that fits just fine here, if that's what's important to you. BTW the Church does not teach the existence of any so-called dome, as you claim: more patent falsehoods.]
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    God's description of flat earth denies the globe and anyone familiar with scripture knows it.  The more people deny flat earth, the more they show their ignorance of scripture. *
    [Mundane platitudes and false canards again. God never has and never will describe the earth as being "flat."]
    .
    No backside of the sun, bud.  Proven a myriad of times by many people.  I'd post a video, but ppl don't seem to view them.  Get yourself a Nikon P900 and sun lenses and view for yourself.  There are dots on the sun that rotate around like a wheel but never disappear.  The sun turns like a wheel with its face facing earth. *
    [Patent falsehood again. The sun doesn't "turn like a wheel." You are entirely ignorant of how to make simple observations! If you want to see what an astronomical body is doing you have to orient your axis of reference according to the earth's axis. If you were standing at the north pole (not MAGNETIC north!), this would work, but you'd have to be content with observing the sun for a few days near the summer solstice. Further south from there, you have to mount your camera on a tripod that allows its direction to turn about an axis parallel with the one through (true) north and (true) south poles. This means that even watching something like the moon move across the sky, you have to lean your head backwards at the degrees of your latitude (so as to imitate how the camera moves) so that Polaris is directly above your head and then you have to look straight forward without turning your eyes right to left. Then when you've seen the moon rise in the east you've turned your head all the way to the LEFT, and as the moon rises, you're looking straight AHEAD, and as the moon sets, you've turned your head all the way to the RIGHT. In this way you'll see the moon's appearance remains constantly the SAME from rise to set, and this is likewise accurately found by keeping your camera (or head and neck) parallel to the earth's axis and your line of sight perpendicular to that axis. But you and your flat-earthdown-syndromers will NEVER do that because you're NOT INTERESTED in the truth.]
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    So far, I've not seen one proof for round earth that holds up to scrutiny, yet they claim 50.  No empirical proof.  No verifiable experiments. No personal hands on...  Just lots of talk, parroting and videos supporting NASA, a freemasonic institution bent on destruction of the sciences.  The answer is obvious.  Earth is not a globe. *
    [You have been shown NUMEROUS objective observations and practices that support the sphericity of the earth but you refuse to understand them. You run away and HIDE from the first step in any of these exercises because you know (like a Protestant) that it leads to your having to make an important decision which you DON'T WANT TO MAKE so you take a left turn off the path of true knowledge and head for the land of the know-nothings with your flat-earthdown-syndrome buddies! A very Protestant way to go. There are a LOT more than 50 reasons earth is NOT FLAT. Empirical evidence is all around us, but your mundane canard of "no empirical proof, no verifiable experiments, no personal hands-on" is its own lie. This patent falsehood and mundane canard of "just lots of talk, parroting and videos..." is EXACTLY WHAT FLAT-EARTHERS ARE DOING. Are you Jєωιѕн? You certainly act like it. You do the very thing that you accuse of others while you continue to do them yourself. VERY Jєωιѕн of you! Did you learn that in the тαℓмυd or did a Rabbi teach you, while he turns his head and SPITS at the mention of Our Lord's name?]
    .
    Planets are not worlds, so they aren't globes.  The so-called planets, Mars, Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, etc, are wandering STARS. *
    [You could teach a course on obstreperous nescience. How can you expect to be taken seriously when you conflate the other planets, "Mars, Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, etc." as "wandering STARS?" If you had the courage of your own so-called convictions, you would join an amateur astronomy club and learn some of the basics. This is easily grasped by 7 year-old boys with a telescope and a sky chart. Very few girls have any interest in astronomy, for whatever reason. Is that your excuse??]
    .
    Without evidence, something by way of science... or even empirical or personal proof, there is no case for globe earth... there isn't even one solid proof! *
    [The evidence for sphericity of planet earth is in ENORMOUS abundance, but you simply refuse to pay attention.]
    .
    Sailors always used geometry and plane sailing. By definition plane sailing is sailing on a course plotted without reference to the curvature of the earth. They never carried globes, but plotted on flat maps.
    [Every course that teaches plane sailing anywhere on earth BEGINS with the definition that it only works for regions of less than 600 kilometers, because any more than that errors are introduced consequent to the curvature of the earth. Flat maps are used because paper lies flat, for one, and because, two, the small errors resulting from presuming the spherical earth is "flat" are less than about 100 meters around your vessel, so it's not considered significant. You get as much error from rounding off one less decimal place in your calculations.]
    .
    Tradition teaches there is a firmament. Solid dome, like a tent. Water is above the dome and below the dome. Earth below the dome. Sun/moon/stars inside the dome. *
    [There is no "dome" in the Bible. The Church does not teach any "dome." There is no "dome" in Catholic Tradition. False platitude and mundane canard! Traditionally, by "a firmament" (Gn. 1:6) is understood the whole space from the surface of earth to the nearest stars. Water as vapor is suspended in the clouds above the earth. There is no "dome" - another flat-earthdown-syndrome mundane canard and false platitude.]
    .
    Surface of water never curves, small drops excepted. Water must be contained and it's surface always settles flat. It is impossible for water to wrap around the outside of a ball. *
    [The surface of water absolutely DOES curve. Look up "meniscus" or check out free-fall videos with ambient air pressure. The shape of a body of water conforms to the boundaries of its container, and left to its own cohesion and surface tension, it naturally forms a spheroid when free of other outside forces such as air currents or sound waves. The depth of the oceans is very small compared to the diameter of the earth, and would constitute approximately the thickness of a piece of paper when applied to a 12" diameter globe model. If the earth as such a globe model were covered by a curved paper towel, using all the water on earth there would hardly be enough area to get wet before you run out of water. To the scale of the 12" globe 14 ml of water would cover the entire planet, since most of the earth's lakes would be thinner than the thickness of a coat of paint. In any case, even without gravity doing the job, the water would wrap around the model just fine.]
    .
    It remains that no curvature of the earth has ever been demonstrated. [FALSE] Further, things like lighthouses, gyros, sundials, bubble levels, compasses, astrolabes and sextants were developed by people with the horizontal plane in mind. [FALSE] For good reason. Earth is a plane. *
    [All falsehood. Patent falsehoods and mundane false canards from a flat-earthdown-syndromer. Sundials were developed for the purpose of keeping track of time by observing the shadow cast by a stationary reference pole, and they are custom-made for your own latitude. I know, it's embarrassing when you realize you didn't know that. Regardless of what month of the year it is, your own location uses its own sundial that would be inaccurate when placed in a different latitude, a fact that makes absolutely no sense for a 'FLAT' earth, but it makes TOTAL sense for a spheroidal earth.]
    .
    If you blow a dandelion seed out of your hands, a substance just barely heavier than the air, it will float away and slowly but eventually fall to the ground. And if you drop an anvil from your hands, something much heavier than the air, it will quickly and directly fall straight to the ground.
    [Incorrect. The weight of a dandelion seed is irrelevant. In a vacuum it falls to the ground just as fast as a brick or an ANVIL. The seed with tendrils splaying out in all directions picks up air currents and it's the friction of air pulling and pushing on the tendrils of the seed that make it drift along. If the wind doesn't die down the dandelion seed will REMAIN AIRBORNE, by which means the seeds are able to travel great distances, which is how dandelions grow on desert islands in the ocean.]

    Now, this has absolutely nothing to do with “gravity.” The fact that light things rise up and heavy things fall down is simply a natural property of weight. *
    [This mundane canard of the obstreprously nescient flat-earthdown-syndromers is getting so tiresome and old-hat! You deny the objectively observed effects of gravity and claim this "weight" thing, which you utterly fail to define. Problem is, weight is a function of gravity so if you deny gravity (which you attempt to do) you consequently deny weight. Oh, but wait! You deny gravity but AFFIRM weight! How Jєωιѕн of you. Did you learn that in the тαℓмυd or did a Rabbi teach it to you while he turns his head and spits at the mention of Our Lord's name?]
    .
    The mechanical ability of a sextant to view by line of site, with reflection of mirrors (another direct line of site) with angles provided by the tool for determining position actually makes no sense whatsoever if the earth were a globe. [FALSE]  All horizontal and vertical lines of site and direct reflections from mirrors would be in error when applied to a curved object.  [FALSE]
    .
    In fact, the arc [Naut.mi. = minute of arc at the equator] is a degree of a circle [actually not a degree but a minute of arc] used in relation to angles and lines to denote distance and has zero to do with a globe earth. *
    ["The arc" is NOT "a degree of a circle." You are ignorant of arcs, sextant use, celestial navigation and spherical trigonometry! Nonetheless you pretend to be an expert. How sad! More like an expert charlatan! The use of the sextant to measure angles between heavenly bodies and the horizon, over extended periods of time, makes utterly no sense unless the earth is spheroidal. It takes more than one or two sightings to arrive at this conclusion, however. One must compare sightings from various directions to various astronomical bodies over a period of days or even weeks before it becomes evident. The changes in the orientation of these bodies is only explained by a spheroidal planet earth. ]
    .
    Now that we have well established that a sextant is designed to work with parallel lines, reflecting mirrors, line of sight and degrees of an arc, (not the globe earth,) that they measure planes, and that the measurements are recorded on a grid map, I think its safe to say, along with gyros, astrolabes, compasses, bubble levels etc, the earth measured by such things is proven not a globe. [It's rather safe to say, "YOU'RE WRONG."]
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    Ok, do show, anything at all, that proves curve commensurate with a 24,000 mile ball.  Your own personal tests, someone else's tests, photos, whatever.  Please only untouched, non cgi, not photoshopped evidence.  But I'll take anything at all. [False. Everything you're given you reject out of hand.] No one to date has produced this evidence and I've been doing flat earth for almost 10 years now. [False. You refuse to look at what you're given.] Why?  Because they know it doesn't exist. *
    [No, you refuse to look because you know you'll have to make an informed decision, and knowing that you don't WANT to make an informed decision, you deliberately make an abrupt LEFT TURN off of the way to truth, like a PROTESTANT, in order to avoid having to make that choice in the future.]
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    We know for certain that ships do not disappear over the curve. [FALSE] We know for certain that the horizon rises to eye level no matter how high one goes,[FALSE] and that on a ball, the horizon would actually descend in order to be a ball [FALSE]... We know for certain that there is a hard dome above earth [FALSE] forming a tent like structure over the earth with water above the dome. *
    [All wrong. You have all your facts mixed up and apparently you enjoy being wrong all the time. Are you Jєωιѕн? Or Protestant?]
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    The Church also teaches that the sun, moon and stars reside inside a visible firmament [Wrong] that is laid out as a firm boundary, like a tent, between heaven and earth.
    [The firmament as such is not "visible."]
    .
    Verifying measurements to the sun/moon can be done by anyone at all and most certainly do not add up to millions of miles for sun or hundreds of thousands of miles for the moon.  Scripture alone should suffice to prove sun and moon are in the firmament, relatively small and nearby. *
    [Simple, repeatable experiments I have repeatedly described, you consistently refuse to try yourself. Anyone can do them, and they have been done for thousands of years all ready. You don't like that fact, do you? No, you don't! Scripture is not the place to look for any such information. Scripture does not "prove" the location of the sun or moon or Polaris or Antarctica or anything else.]
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    Geocentrism is flat earth.[False]  There is no such thing as a globe hanging in space. [Who said it's "hanging in space?"] This fallacy came about when Catholics realized earth was not moving and assumed it was a globe.  The earth has a foundation.  The globe is not founded, but admittedly dangling. *
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    Modern Geocentrism, (MG) with its stationary globe hanging in space is a theory incompatible with scripture and historical Geocentric cosmology. *
    [Patently false platitude and mundane canard.]
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    So BUMPH, as tradition reveals, earth is flat. [Nope...]
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    The Church has spoken. Earth is flat and geocentric. * [Wrong again.]
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    Polaris can be seen, however, up to approximately 23.5 degrees South latitude. *
    [False canard and patent lie. Nobody at sea level south of the equator can see Polaris. Nobody.]
    .
    "It has often been urged that the earth must be a globe, because the stars in the southern ‘hemisphere’ move round a south polar star
    [strawman]; in the same way that those of the north revolve round the northern pole star. This is another instance of the sacrifice of truth, and denial of the evidence of our senses [Nope.] for the purpose of supporting a theory which is in every sense false and unnatural." *
    [A referenced quote, but false nonetheless]
    .
    The convergence of sun and earth is known as sunrise and sunset.  When the sun goes beyond these points, being too low to be resolved by the eye from that level, it thus disappears. *
    [Garbage. This favorite false canard and patent lie of flat-earthdown-syndromers doesn't even have the RING of truth. Maybe flat-earthdown-syndromers are tone deaf?]
    .
    I talk about flat earth where ever I go. [Maybe you ought to be arrested for terrorism!] Its been a long and difficult haul, but we need Catholics to rebuild what is necessarily Catholic! [Flat-earthdown-syndrome is NOT CATHOLIC.] We need people to go through Church docuмents, read saints and unearth gold. [For your golden-calf false-god of flattardom?] And believe me, its out in them there hills!  We need researchers, youtubers, teachers, apologists, priests who can handle the heat, brave moms and dads! *
    [Flat-earthism has absolutely nothing to do with Catholicism. You're wasting your time. Can't you find something productive to do for a change? What you're doing is working to DESTROY the CREDIBILITY of the CHURCH (as though that needs your help).]
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    Nothing is true where the terrain is said to be a globe.[False.]  The horizon is not horizontal.[False.]  Level horizon is not level but curved.[False.] There is no up on a globe, only out.[False.]  No down, no positional east or west. * [False.]
    .
    Scripture has most certainly defined the shape of the earth [False.]... its references and descriptions of earth make round earth totally impossible. *
    [Again, it's not the place of Scripture to define that which can be measured or ascertained by physical sense perception ALONE.]
    .
    All the lines and polka dots in the world will never make earth a globe. *
    [Who cares about lines and polka dots? Are you the fashion police now?]
    .
    If indeed there is a "south pole",[We know, flat-earthers have SUCH a hard time with the south pole!!!] how can that one point or pole be demonstrated with a compass? [Ask anyone who has been there, a compass works okay CLOSE to Antarctica but it doesn't do much good ON Antarctica because you're too close to magnetic south and the compass needle drags. They have to have an adjustable counterweight which is really tricky business, especially with cold fingers.] The needle arrow points north only. [One end points north the other end points south.] The the opposite side of the needle, when turning around the north,[Turning around?] draws a circle in the outer regions [Are you hallucinating now?] showing there is only one pole--north.[Someone gave you bad information or else this is your brain on drugs.]  The southern region is as scripture describes, "encompassed", as in a "circle" of land within the great deep. [Do you consult Scripture before you decide which groceries to buy at the market? Or do you consult your medium with a crystal ball? Woops-- Tarot cards (they're flat!)]  The outer regions have not yet been fully circuмnavigated, but the compass and scripture agree that earth is not a globe. *
    [All completely false -- The compass does point south with the opposite end of the same arrow that points north; There are two poles, north and south; Scripture has nothing to do with this discussion;  The entire earth has been circuмnavigated every which way; The compass does not conflict with scripture but that's irrelevant.]
    .
    Actually, I agree with the fact that there is a directional south.  But the compass still does not work on a globe, and will only point to true south in very limited circuмstances because the back end of a compass draws a circle as one goes around the north.[This is your brain on drugs again. Better watch out or CPS will come and take away your children.] This is simply a fact regarding the compass. [This is simply a patent falsehood of flat-earthdom-syndromers.]  But none of this is inconsistent with a flat earth. [Wrong.] A compass, held flat at the equator can never point to the north pole on a globe because the needle will be perpendicular to north while one holds it standing on any side of the ball, proving that earth is not a globe. *
    [You were obviously never a girl scout because you have no idea how a compass is used or how it works. One end of the compass needle points north at the equator absolutely, while the other end points south, and the lines of magnetic flux are parallel with the earth's surface there too, which makes the compass work so well. Very simple. But you missed that girl scout lesson, apparently. Scouting lasts a lifetime, and missing it lasts even longer, I guess.]
    .
    Please. [No, I insist.] A compass works within the magnetic fields of EARTH. [And, therefore....?]  The north "pole" to be exact. [The compass in fact works OUTSIDE the north pole.]  Necessarily, were anyone to locate the north pole with a compass,[That would be the MAGNETIC north pole, NOT true north!] they would have to be on the same level as the north pole, or the compass wouldn't work, [Actually the opposite is the case: a compass does NOT work directly over the north pole! Ask any meteorologist, ESPECIALLY one who's been there.] since the compass necessarily must be held level. [Wrong. Some compasses must be held vertically.] Held level at the equator on a globe, a compass leaves a perpendicular line that points out in space, not to the pole. * [No, held level at the equator a common compass needle is parallel with the magnetic lines of flux from the earth's field, and therefore works perfectly well.]

    [You really are clueless when it comes to compass use.]
    .
    No one is certain exactly what the flat earth map looks really looks like. [...looks really looks...?]
    [Correct, for once, however, the typo is incorrect. So even when you're right, you're wrong! NOBODY KNOWS what the flat-earth map looks like because there's no way to make a flat-earth map that actually works because it's a stupid idea in the first place.]

    Nevertheless, there are so many proofs of flat earth.
    [Wrong. There are exactly ZERO "proofs" of "flat" earth. You just provided more evidence that flat-earthdown-syndromers are incurable!]  

    Scripture and the Church have been squarely in the flat earth camp since the beginning. *
    [Absolutely wrong. The Church has never taught flat-earthdom and never will. Get over it!]
    .
    The fact Shaq showed back up to undo what he said is in itself laughable... Scripture is clear.  Earth is flat. *
    [False. Scripture has nothing to say about the earth being "flat" nor does Scripture have any relevance to the topic. And last and least of all, who cares what Shaq thinks? Oh, wait, he can't think.]
    .
    St. Augustine, Severian, Bshp of Gabala, St. Jerome, Cosmas, Methodius, St. John Chrysostom and many others confirmed earth is flat and geocentric, a snow globe, as it were... Ball geocentrism, supported by Sungenis-esque pagan authorities is no proof of anything except flat earth. *
    [Now the earth is a snow globe. Okay....NOT. Your list is wrong. No Church Fathers ever taught "flat" earth.]
    .
    There is a lot to know about flat earth. *
    [How about this one:  Flat-earthers have no model therefore they have no theory. Period. What else needs to be known?]
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    It is impossible that Jerusalem is the center of the earth if earth is a ball. *
    [Mexico City is at the geographical center of North and South America -- are you in SHOCK yet? ... How about now? ... ]
    .
    There is abundant proof that Christ approved of the Book of Enoch. *
    [False. The so-called Book of Enoch is apocryphal and could not have survived the Flood.]
    .
    Earth is not a globe. *
    [False. Earth is absolutely globe-like.]
    .
    Another ridiculous notion: God can do anything... so He does the ridiculous.  The extremes global earth defenders go to maintain the pagan theory of heliocentrism [strawman] is an embarrassment--to them.  Scripture, the saints and the Church, not to mention the reverse testimony of the pagans, teach that earth is not a globe. *
    [You said it: another ridiculous notion, that earth is not a globe. I guess you can be right sometimes!]  
    .
    Rainbows, northern lights and sundogs appear to reflect aspects of the dome as well. *
    [These have nothing to do with your fantasy solid material firmament which does not exist.]
    .
    Catholic perspective of flat earth from the ancients has been shared here and scientific proofs prove flat earth.
    [Incorrect.]
    Just picked up another traditional priest a couple days ago. FE is gaining ground in many traditional Catholic circles. Its only a matter of time... *
    [Flat-earthism has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with Catholicism. End of story.]
    .
    There are scientific proofs for flat earth numbering in the hundreds.  
    [Incorrect. There are NONE.]

    Not to mention the teachings from scripture, popes, saints and the Church backing up the obvious geocentric nature of earth.  Scripture details clearly that there is a firmament dividing heaven and earth and that the lights in the firmament move over and across the face of the earth and therefore cannot possibly shine from hundreds of thousands of miles or millions of miles away.  Must be an awfully big dome to cover for that distant sun! Even if you reject truth for who knows what reason, you know scripture teaches about the firmament and the movement of the sun over the face of the earth.  
    [Wrong -- Scripture has exactly NOTHING to do with the question.]
    .
    Conversely, there are no proofs for round earth, except lies from Freemasons and pagans throughout history. *
    [Wrong. Freemasons are irrelevant. Reality dictates itself. There are proofs everywhere we look, but we have to look.]
    .
    The body of Our Lady is material and It is in heaven.  Heaven is a place.  Material place. *
    [Incorrect. Heaven is a non-material reality where the saints (generally speaking) there do not have their bodies -- YET. Our Lady is the exception.]
    .
    God is both spiritual AND material. Materially speaking, His name is Jesus. Mary is material. Heaven is a place that houses both persons, glorified material.  Heaven sits above the firmament as described by the saints and scripture and it is a material thing. *
    [Incorrect. God is spiritual. Read the Summa. Our Lord and Our Lady are both spiritual and material, but not material as we know it. Heaven is a spiritual place which will be REMADE after the Final Judgment and there will be a new earth the nature of which we cannot know now.]
    .
    [Perhaps this is the basis of your problem, happenby, you don't know anything about theology or eschatology.]


    .
    This redundancy of false platitudes and mundane canards has been going on for so long, it would be nice to see a list of them.

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    Offline happenby

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    Re: Patent Falsehoods by happenby
    « Reply #35 on: August 22, 2018, 03:53:45 PM »
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  • The entire blathering post above is Neil's verbal bs known as 'the skitters'.  

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Patent Falsehoods by happenby
    « Reply #36 on: November 29, 2018, 01:54:49 AM »
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  • The entire blathering post above is Neil's verbal bs known as 'the skitters'.  
    .
    Unable to muster an intelligible response to the exposure of her public record of nonsense, happenby runs and hides for over 3 months now, having lost the incentive to continue her nonsensical phantom-chasing.
    .
    The jig is up. Flat-earthdom syndrome has been revealed for what it is, an emotional disorder.
    .
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Patent Falsehoods by happenby
    « Reply #37 on: December 01, 2018, 02:36:02 AM »
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  • .
    .
    And the accused has nothing to say in her defense. 
    .
    There is so much more....
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Patent Falsehoods by happenby
    « Reply #38 on: December 03, 2018, 09:27:52 AM »
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  • .
    This redundancy of false platitudes and mundane canards has been going on for so long, it would be nice to see a list of them.

    FALSE STATEMENTS -- All by one CI member: happenby
    .
    .
    .
    There are scientific proofs for flat earth numbering in the hundreds.  
    [Incorrect. There are NONE.]

    .
    Conversely, there are no proofs for round earth, except lies from Freemasons and pagans throughout history. *
    [Wrong. Freemasons are irrelevant. Reality dictates itself. There are proofs everywhere we look, but we have to look.]

    .
    .
    This redundancy of false platitudes and mundane canards has been going on for so long, it would be nice to see a list of them.
    .
    The false claim of flat-earthdom syndromers that there are "hundreds of scientific proofs for 'flat' earth" is demonstrably false.
    -- First, flat-earthdom syndromers don't know what science is!
        Science is not about "proving" anything. Perhaps flat-earthdom syndromers have science confused with geometry or logic.
    -- Second, what they consider "proofs" (compelling arguments?) are all flawed and rendered moot, which see.
        For example, they say "the horizon rises to the eye of the observer," but the horizon does not rise at all, it stays right where it is.
        For example, they claim the sun gets smaller close to the horizon, but that's an illusion they get from not using a solar filter.
        For example, they say, "water doesn't bend," but the surface of water can be seen to bend even in a glass of drinking water.
        For example, they claim the sun and moon "turn like a wheel" but that's shown ridiculous when you know how to observe them.
        For example, they repeat over and over "there is no curvature" when earth's curvature is obvious to anyone with two eyes to see.
        For example, they deny the existence of photographs of earth taken from space, no matter what the source is.
        For example, they cherry-pick distortion of wide-angle photos from high altitude balloons, ignoring the evident curvature therein.
    -- Third, they refuse to participate in simple experiments which simply conclude that the earth is spheroidal.
        No flat-earthdom syndromer has attempted to measure the angle between sun and moon at the moon's quarter phase.
        No flat-earthdom syndromer has been willing to make any objective observation of the full moon at midnight.
        No flat-earthdom syndromer has an explanation for the shadows behind physical promontories on the moon.
        No flat-earthdom syndromer can explain the cause of solar eclipses, nor are they capable of predicting any using "flat" earthism.
        They flatly deny that using a builder's level from a high mountaintop is able to measure the curvature of the earth.
        In fact, they refuse to measure anything whatsoever, UNLESS they can misunderstand the measurement so as to get it wrong.
    -- Fourth, they have no model for their silly "flat" earth, can't agree on any model, and so claim they don't need a model.
        The fact is, any proposed model they've come up with is shown to be impossible by any of many simple tests.
    .
    The bottom line is, the evidence is so utterly overwhelming, they flatly ignore it all and run off on their blanket denial of reality.
    .
    Flat-earthdom syndrome is a manifestation of Modernism, whereby flat-earthdom syndromers believe reality is in the mind.
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Patent Falsehoods by happenby
    « Reply #39 on: December 08, 2018, 06:10:51 PM »
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  • .
    Flat-earthdom syndromers have egg on their faces and are too scared to address objective arguments.
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