Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Objects below the horizon  (Read 2330 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline noOneImportant

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 223
  • Reputation: +138/-168
  • Gender: Male
Objects below the horizon
« on: March 15, 2018, 06:33:27 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I know I've mentioned this elsewhere recently, but since no one ever responded I'll break it out to its own thread. 

    If anyone could demostrate how the picture below is possible on a flat earth, I consider that sufficient on its own to change my mind on the topic and consider I might be wrong. 

    The picture: 



    For what I consider a valid proof, see below. That picture shows what I expect to see as the sun gets further away over a flat earth. I think we are all agreed that light moves in (mostly) straight lines (with some minor exceptions due to refraction). If you do not agree with that statement, or think that refraction is contributing to the above picture, please specify that in your response. 

    If we agree that light moves in straight lines, I see no possible way for the bottom of the sun to ever be beneath the horizon (see red line below). 



    Offline WholeFoodsTrad

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 531
    • Reputation: +116/-157
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Objects below the horizon
    « Reply #1 on: March 16, 2018, 12:31:14 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The Sun looks closer and closer to The Earth, the further it gets away from the observer.  However, it is not closer to The Earth.    
    "Even a man who is pure in heart and says his prayers by night
    may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms and the autumn moon is bright."


    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41908
    • Reputation: +23946/-4345
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Objects below the horizon
    « Reply #2 on: March 16, 2018, 08:46:46 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • The Sun looks closer and closer to The Earth, the further it gets away from the observer.  However, it is not closer to The Earth.    

    That's possible.  Things converge as you look closer to the horizon.

    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18177
    • Reputation: +8276/-692
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Objects below the horizon
    « Reply #3 on: March 16, 2018, 10:49:33 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I know I've mentioned this elsewhere recently, but since no one ever responded [?] I'll break it out to its own thread.

    The picture:

    .
    You must have missed my reply, no?
    The sun is wider near where it touches the water.
    If you complete the curve under the horizon line the sun is not a circle but an oval.
    See how it appears to have a flattish top and almost pointed sides?
    The same sun at the same time, viewed from further west, say two time zones, is perfectly circular, higher in the sky.
    But if you go there (2 hours further west) and wait, you'll soon see this same thing happen.
    The sun will appear there the same way, getting wider as it appears to touch the horizon.
    .
    Furthermore, the place where the water's horizon meets, the edge of the sun appears to spill out.
    The sun appears to be melting onto the top of the water like wax.
    But we know that isn't really happening either.
    .
    Add to that, the perimeter of the sun appears to be ripply or fuzzy.
    With greater magnification you can see this effect more dramatically.
    The sun in this position over the horizon at sea appears to have a wavy edge, especially at the bottom.
    .
    Therefore, there are several illusions going on which we can test to see they are only appearing to happen.
    They are not REALLY happening.
    What is happening is the light we see, the image of the sun, is being slightly distorted.
    The sun is still in the same place as it should be but its appearance has been tweaked.
    .
    One test we can perform is to go higher up in the atmosphere to see how the sun looks up there.
    From very high altitude the sun never has these three distortions going on like this.
    Consequently we can expect what the cause of this triple condition is due to.
    What is it that the sun's light is going through here, but not when we see it from much higher, such as from 14,500 ft. elev.?
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18177
    • Reputation: +8276/-692
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Objects below the horizon
    « Reply #4 on: April 18, 2018, 12:26:44 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • .
    The question flat-earthers obviously want no part with because it pops their bubble.
    .
    Their bubble gets more popping than a bag of popcorn.    :popcorn:
    .
    What is it that the sun's light is going through here, but not when we see it from much higher up, far above mean sea level, such as from 14,500 ft. elev.?
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18177
    • Reputation: +8276/-692
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Objects below the horizon
    « Reply #5 on: April 18, 2018, 12:32:54 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The Sun looks closer and closer to The Earth, the further it gets away from the observer.  
    However, it is not closer to The Earth.    
    .
    Nobody said it was "closer to the earth." That's a straw-man and a loser.
    .
    The OP said:
    .
    That picture shows what I expect to see as the sun gets further away over a flat earth.
    .
    So the sun disappears as it sets below the horizon every day but for flat-earthers, the sun isn't really setting below the horizon. Because that would pop their bubble (oh, dear!) and we can't have that.
    .
    So their bubble is popped and they say, n-o-o-o our bubble isn't popped. It just appears popped.
    .
    Flat-earthers are wrong, again and again, but they say, n-o-o-o-o, we're not wrong, it just looks that way.
    .
    Shangri-La fake dreamland, the make-believe world of flatulism, spreading its putrid fumes for all to endure.
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18177
    • Reputation: +8276/-692
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Objects below the horizon
    « Reply #6 on: May 09, 2018, 10:47:23 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline happenby

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2768
    • Reputation: +1077/-1637
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Objects below the horizon
    « Reply #7 on: May 09, 2018, 11:48:04 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • Atmosphere includes distortion at a distance.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere



    Not unlike Neil's distortions up close


    Offline noOneImportant

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 223
    • Reputation: +138/-168
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Objects below the horizon
    « Reply #8 on: May 09, 2018, 06:18:34 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I'm just here waiting for someone to respond to my initial question. A simple picture will do.

    Offline happenby

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2768
    • Reputation: +1077/-1637
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Objects below the horizon
    « Reply #9 on: May 09, 2018, 08:21:15 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I'm just here waiting for someone to respond to my initial question. A simple picture will do.
    I responded.  Just not with a picture. 

    Offline Truth is Eternal

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1768
    • Reputation: +790/-1995
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Objects below the horizon
    « Reply #10 on: May 09, 2018, 09:59:49 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • "I Think it is Time Cathinfo Has a Public Profession of Belief." "Thank you for publicly affirming the necessity of believing, without innovations, all Infallibly Defined Dogmas of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church."


    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18177
    • Reputation: +8276/-692
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Objects below the horizon
    « Reply #11 on: May 10, 2018, 07:14:52 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I'm just here waiting for someone to respond to my initial question. A simple picture will do.
    .
    This is one of many examples of how flat-earthers ignore simple questions.
    What's worse, they ignore the simple questions and then later claim that they did NOT ignore them.
    .
    I responded.  Just not with a picture. 
    .
    No, you didn't respond.
    .
    There is no flat-earth answer for how the sun can set EVERY DAY going nearly perpendicular down into the sea (or dry land) as seen from innumerable places all over the world.
    .
    Therefore flat-earthers attempt to dilute the question with fakery, saying the sun doesn't go down beyond the horizon, but skirts along sideways and inexplicably out of sight.
    .
    They have even provided video as if "evidence" of their falsehood showing footage from north of the arctic circle where the sun doesn't set for one or more days in the summer, but hovers near the horizon in a complete cycle around the viewer. Flat-earthers deceptively pretend this is what can be seen in more tropical regions, and they do this by deliberately failing to mention the latitude at which the video was taken.
    .
    And now, the flat-earthers will ignore this post because it's too challenging for them, and they prefer soft targets.
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18177
    • Reputation: +8276/-692
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Objects below the horizon
    « Reply #12 on: May 14, 2018, 05:25:28 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • .
    10 days so far and no reply. Too challenging, apparently.
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Smedley Butler

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1334
    • Reputation: +551/-1531
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Objects below the horizon
    « Reply #13 on: May 14, 2018, 07:55:40 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • I know I've mentioned this elsewhere recently, but since no one ever responded I'll break it out to its own thread.

    If anyone could demostrate how the picture below is possible on a flat earth, I consider that sufficient on its own to change my mind on the topic and consider I might be wrong.

    The picture:



    For what I consider a valid proof, see below. That picture shows what I expect to see as the sun gets further away over a flat earth. I think we are all agreed that light moves in (mostly) straight lines (with some minor exceptions due to refraction). If you do not agree with that statement, or think that refraction is contributing to the above picture, please specify that in your response.

    If we agree that light moves in straight lines, I see no possible way for the bottom of the sun to ever be beneath the horizon (see red line below).


    Here's the answer with a demonstration:

    Boom.

    Offline noOneImportant

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 223
    • Reputation: +138/-168
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Objects below the horizon
    « Reply #14 on: May 14, 2018, 09:22:40 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • The camera in that video is below the surface of the table, so obviously the table partially hides the coin. There is no correspondence between that and the question I asked. Put the camera on top of the table and try again, and you'll find that you don't see the coin disappear below the table.