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Author Topic: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis  (Read 78291 times)

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Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
« Reply #255 on: July 13, 2023, 01:40:16 PM »
You won't be debating evolution with me because I would not defend evolution so there is nothing to debate.  But you have here shown yourself to be an intellectually dishonest and illogical debater who misrepresents the positions of his opponents. 
Dishonest? Everything I said was clear and to the point unlike your evasion when I asked you a simple yes or no question - "do you believe in evolution?" I, of course, interpreted your evasion as you being ashamed to admit publicly that you don't regard evolution as the heretical trash theory that it is.

As to misrepresenting positions, I've demonstrated Augustine rejects evolution contrary to your misrepresentation of him.



Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
« Reply #257 on: July 13, 2023, 01:51:53 PM »
https://www.defendingthebride.com/ma2/aquinas.html
:facepalm: I can't believe what I'm reading... accoeding to this clown (who also promotes heliocentrism in the article) St. Thomas Aquinas was correct in saying that if Mary did not contract original sin it would denigrate the sacrifice of Christ.

What's the argument? Basically, St. Thomas is infallible therefore he wouldn't make such a mistake.


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Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
« Reply #258 on: July 13, 2023, 02:01:12 PM »

Quote
"Let there be light," was spoken ineffably. One can ask whether what was spoken is the only-begotten Son. For what was spoken is called the Word of God by whom all things were made.
Let's revisit what St Augustine said.  God spoke an ineffable language/word, but He did speak.  Because what God spoke was the Word, which is Christ.  Now since Christ is also God, and unknowable by human kind, it stands to reason that the language used was ineffable (i.e. unexpressable, unable to be explained/understood).


Then we have Jaynek's "explanation":

Quote
Yes, the literal interpretation, that is the meaning intended by God, is that light came into being when created by the will of God.  This meaning is conveyed by using the figurative expression "God spoke" in which we understand God's act by analogy to human speech while recognizing they are not equivalent.

She says that it is figurative language that "God spoke" which then denies that Christ, who is the Word, was spoken.  All of this in contrary to what St Augustine was saying.

You need to start reading the Bible using the Haydock commentary, because you're way off base.

Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
« Reply #259 on: July 13, 2023, 02:21:58 PM »
There's not been a consensus either way.
There was a lack of consensus during the Patristic period, but after St. Bede there was a consensus that lasted over a thousand years.

It's a debated topic.
 
After that long period of consensus, there has only been debate about globe earth among Catholics since Vatican  II.  The 19th century belief in flat earth promoted by Samuel Rowbotham (and other sola Scriptura heretics) was unable to infiltrate the Church before her safeguards to the Faith were dismantled.

The Church allows both theories.  Until She teaches clearly, you can't say flat-earth is any more wrong than globe earth.
Yes, both theories are allowed as a matter of science.  But she does not allow claims that Scripture teaches flat earth or that people who accept globe earth are denying the authority of Scripture.  These claims are interpretations of Scripture that contradict Church teaching.  It would similarly be wrong if supporters of globe earth claimed that Scripture teaches the earth is a globe. The Church has clearly taught that Scripture has no intent to teach on this subject.

St Thomas was *slightly* wrong on the Immaculate Conception (which in the 1200s was not yet defined), but this doctrine was no less implied.  Many others were *majorly* wrong about the Immaculate Conception, which caused the Church to investigate and determine that the Immaculate Conception WAS implied in Scripture and also explicitly taught in Apostolic Tradition.  Thus, now, it is an explicit doctrine; formerly it was only implicit.

Yes, implicit doctrines can change to explicit doctrines.  But the teaching in Providentissimus Deus that Scripture does not intend to teach on matters like the shape of the earth is not going to change to a doctrine that Scripture teaches the earth is flat. The Church does not contradict herself like that.