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Author Topic: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis  (Read 78276 times)

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Offline Tradman

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Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
« Reply #250 on: July 13, 2023, 11:36:10 AM »
Well said. Your entire post explains the subject very well, but the above shows the problem, IMO, with the globe-earthers wanting to keep science separate from religion, as if God isn't the author and creator of everything in the natural world.

I think you're right. They alienate the physical from the spiritual, then water down the spiritual (all religions are equal) then accentuate the physical, to arrive at pure humanism and eventually, devil worship. As secretly as possible of course.  Eliminating creation's spiritual connection to God creates another, different, alternate, 'genesis' of a Godless world. Reminds me that God told us Satan was a liar from the beginning. I'll never see Genesis the same way again.    
 

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
« Reply #251 on: July 13, 2023, 12:10:01 PM »
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I am not the one who said Scripture is silent on these matters.  St. Augustine said it and then later Pope Leo.
They never said this.

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Ladislaus also appears to accept it when he says there is "no unequivocal statement about the earth being flat". 
If you finish his sentence, he said it is possibly implied.


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To say that something may be implied is not at all the same as a claim that it is clearly taught.
To say that something is implied is also not being silent on the matter.

Everyone agrees Scripture doesn't "teach" on this topic.  But it does "explain" (as Pope Leo tells us) and it also implies many things.

Some of the greatest dogmas of the Faith are only implied in Scripture.  Tradition fills in the gaps.
a.  Scripture tells us that Our Lady was "full of grace".  Apostolic Tradition tells us that this means she was born without sin and Her life was sinless.
b.  Scripture implies many things about science and the world.  Adam/Noah Old Testament Tradition held the earth to be flat until the occult/pagan greeks pushed the anti-Old Testament "science" that the earth was a globe, floating in space, revolving around the Sun (which they worshiped). 


Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
« Reply #252 on: July 13, 2023, 12:57:05 PM »
To say that something is implied is also not being silent on the matter.

The word "imply" means to suggest something without actually explicitly saying it, in other words suggesting while being silent.  For someone to say that something may be implied is to acknowledge that there is silence on the matter.

Some of the greatest dogmas of the Faith are only implied in Scripture.  Tradition fills in the gaps.

But there is no Tradition that the earth is flat or that Scripture teaches it to be so. Catholics throughout history, including Doctors of the Church, believed, as a matter of science, that the earth is a globe.  A globe in the sense that was taught by Aristotle and Ptolemy, not a flat earth surrounded by a globe-shaped firmament.  And these Catholics could only accept this scientific model because they believed that it was not in conflict with Scripture.  

How could St. Thomas have taught that Aristotle's understanding that the earth is a globe is correct, if there was an existing Catholic tradition that Scripture taught it to be flat?   And it was not just St. Thomas, but every educated Catholic, at least from time of St. Bede on, who believed that they were free to accept the view of pagan science on this.

Flat earth is in no way comparable to the "greatest dogmas of the Faith" although admittedly some flat earthers seem to treat it as if it were.

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
« Reply #253 on: July 13, 2023, 01:11:01 PM »
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The word "imply" means to suggest something without actually explicitly saying it, in other words suggesting while being silent. 

You're using this phrase incorrectly.  You're incorrectly using a phrase typically applied to a person and applying it to a book.  A book, by its very nature, is silent...because everything is written.  When you read, there is no noise.

The phrase "being silent" means there is nothing communicated.  It means the person/book didn't communicate anything, either explicit or implicit.

Scripture is always silent because it's a book.  Scripture does imply many things, without explicitly spelling things out. 

To say that "scripture is silent" implies it did not discuss the topic at all.  This is a false characterization.  Scripture implies many things regarding science in general (as well as history, i.e. the earth is less than 10,000 yrs old) and the shape of the earth/land.  This is not "silence".


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For someone to say that something may be implied is to acknowledge that there is silence on the matter.
Uhhh....no.  "Silence on a matter" means that the matter was not discussed or mentioned at all.  If something was implied, that means the topic was mentioned.

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
« Reply #254 on: July 13, 2023, 01:24:04 PM »

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But there is no Tradition that the earth is flat or that Scripture teaches it to be so. Catholics throughout history, including Doctors of the Church, believed, as a matter of science, that the earth is a globe. 

There's not been a consensus either way.


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A globe in the sense that was taught by Aristotle and Ptolemy, not a flat earth surrounded by a globe-shaped firmament.
It's a debated topic.



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And these Catholics could only accept this scientific model because they believed that it was not in conflict with Scripture.

The Church allows both theories.  Until She teaches clearly, you can't say flat-earth is any more wrong than globe earth.


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How could St. Thomas have taught that Aristotle's understanding that the earth is a globe is correct, if there was an existing Catholic tradition that Scripture taught it to be flat?   And it was not just St. Thomas, but every educated Catholic, at least from time of St. Bede on, who believed that they were free to accept the view of pagan science on this.
St Thomas was *slightly* wrong on the Immaculate Conception (which in the 1200s was not yet defined), but this doctrine was no less implied.  Many others were *majorly* wrong about the Immaculate Conception, which caused the Church to investigate and determine that the Immaculate Conception WAS implied in Scripture and also explicitly taught in Apostolic Tradition.  Thus, now, it is an explicit doctrine; formerly it was only implicit.