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Author Topic: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis  (Read 55858 times)

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Offline Always

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Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
« Reply #195 on: July 11, 2023, 05:28:37 PM »
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  • What calumny? :fryingpan:

    No need to play dumb and add your silly emoji.  You and I know exactly what calumny I speak of. 

    For anyone not aware of same it is the website which gladius has recently been making a habit of trying to tag on to me not only in this thread, but in others as if I were somehow associated with it or what it may represent because my username always is included in its URL:  https://www.always.com/en-us/shop-products/menstrual-pads#sort=asc(title).  

    Let us know, love, and serve God. Let us be swords of truth rather than calumny.

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #196 on: July 11, 2023, 07:16:49 PM »
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  • Quote
    I try to defend Dr. Sungenis in my limited capacity because I tend much more strongly to believe in a globe earth than a flat earth  (and I always have at least after the age of 7 or so) and because I consider myself a very good friend of Dr. Sungenis).  That being said, I do not in any way claim to have the expertise or the time at hand to study the intricacies of the subject in more detail so I believe it would be highly pretentious, not to mention presumptuous, on my part to pretend that I did in carrying on a personal debate with all you good folks.
    That's great that your Dr Sungenis' friend and all, but if you don't have the time/ability to learn/defend the topic, then your repeated (blind) defense of a topic comes across as "fan boy" behavior.  Are you arguing that Sungenis can't be wrong?   


    Offline Always

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #197 on: July 11, 2023, 07:44:03 PM »
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  • He's invited to defend his position.  I've seen his call-in show garner what, 12, 15, I don't know, 20 youtubers?  Why not show up for a lot more Catholics on CI?  But then, maybe he realizes he ought not.  After all, he's got a couple friends doing the heavy lifting.

    Your count is slightly off.  He show garners over a 1,000 views.  Why don't you ask him?  He doesn't bite -- really.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #198 on: July 11, 2023, 08:01:21 PM »
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  • Your count is slightly off.  He show garners over a 1,000 views.  Why don't you ask him?  He doesn't bite -- really.

    I don't understand why you keep saying that forum members should contact Sungenis outside of the forum. This is a forum, so we communicate by posting or sending PM's. That's how it works here. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #199 on: July 11, 2023, 08:22:31 PM »
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  • No need to play dumb and add your silly emoji.  You and I know exactly what calumny I speak of. 

    Poking fun at you is not calumny; ironically, falsely accusing me of calumny is, in fact, calumnious.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."


    Offline Always

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #200 on: July 11, 2023, 08:37:52 PM »
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  • That's great that your Dr Sungenis' friend and all, but if you don't have the time/ability to learn/defend the topic, then your repeated (blind) defense of a topic comes across as "fan boy" behavior.  Are you arguing that Sungenis can't be wrong? 
    My defense of Dr. Sungenis is no more blind than when I defended him regarding geocentrism on CathInofo under a different username.  I defended him even more on novus ordo and secular sites.  I also strongly presented much of Dr. Sungenis' work on geocentrism on CathInfo, some of it I think for the first time.  

    I strongly defended Bp. Williamson regarding the h0Ɩ0cαųst on this site and various others. 

    I have defended other people such as investigative journalist Christopher Bollyn who was and still is a close friend of mine.  I don't always know all the intricacies of the work of people I defend, but when I know enough about it to believe in it and the individual, I have no hesitation in defending their work and their person.

    What has drawn the strongest ire in my defense of Dr. Sungenis regarding his FE position is my belief based on what I know about Dr. Sungenis that he wrote the book in good faith and that as a devout Catholic his primary motivation in writing it was to get at the truth as he saw it.  That view has been strongly attacked in this forum and others.  I'm sorry if you discount or even dismiss my defense of Dr. Sungenis and his FE book with simply the pejorative "fan boy" label.  I wish I could change your mind, but I suspect I can't.  So be it.

    As to your question, no, of course, I am not arguing that Dr. Sungenis can't be wrong.  Although Dr. Sungenis believes he has both the evidence and the interpretation of the evidence on his side for a GE, even he himself has not taken the absolute position that he can't be wrong.  As I think you know, even the Church hasn't given her position on the question.

    Finally, I would pose to you the same question: are you arguing that you can't be wrong?

    Offline Always

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #201 on: July 11, 2023, 08:45:40 PM »
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  • I don't understand why you keep saying that forum members should contact Sungenis outside of the forum. This is a forum, so we communicate by posting or sending PM's. That's how it works here.

    I'm not saying they should or they shouldn't.  They can do or not do whatever they want.  I'm simply inviting them to when they raise questions (or even ask me directly) that could best be answered by him directly.  

    Offline Always

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #202 on: July 11, 2023, 08:57:44 PM »
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  • Poking fun at you is not calumny; ironically, falsely accusing me of calumny is, in fact, calumnious.
    Now, you are doubling down. The ongoing repetition of it and the sick substance of it was calumny, plain and simple.   Now you are trying to wiggle out of it with some fast sleight of hand, trying to turn the tables on me as if I am calumniating you.  I am calling you out gladius.

    Know, love, and serve God.  Be a sword of truth not calumny.


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #203 on: July 11, 2023, 09:04:36 PM »
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  • Now, you are doubling down. The ongoing repetition of it and the sick substance of it was calumny, plain and simple.  Now you are trying to wiggle out of it with some fast sleight of hand, trying to turn the tables on me as if I am calumniating you.  I am calling you out gladius.

    Au contraire, sir.  I am calling you out, for you are the offender, not I.  It is unfortunate that you are so thin-skinned and cannot take a joke.  That is your problem, not mine.  The tables have been completely turned, it was as easy as breathing, and your failure to accept reality is not my problem.  Godspeed, sir.

    Addendum: Not only do I forgive you, I never even took actual offense.  Love and blessings to you and yours.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline Always

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #204 on: July 11, 2023, 09:30:47 PM »
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  • Au contraire, sir.  I am calling you out, for you are the offender, not I.  It is unfortunate that you are so thin-skinned and cannot take a joke.  That is your problem, not mine.  The tables have been completely turned, it was as easy as breathing, and your failure to accept reality is not my problem.  Godspeed, sir.

    Addendum: Not only do I forgive you, I never even took actual offense.  Love and blessings to you and yours.

    More doubling down, slick double talk, and with a dose of moral posturing for good measure.  Your continual repeated behavior was that of a sick/perverted continuous calumnious nature, plain and simple.  I've got a much, much thicker skin than you can imagine, but that doesn't mean I have to look the other way when I've got someone like yourself literally following me all around CathInfo in an obvious effort to try to discredit me and provoke me as well.

    Now go ahead, say what you want if you wish to.  I hope this is the end of it.  It should be for me unless you start up all over again with some sort of the same continual harassing and asinine behavior.

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #205 on: July 11, 2023, 09:58:20 PM »
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  • Now go ahead, say what you want if you wish to.  I hope this is the end of it. 

    :sleep:
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #206 on: July 12, 2023, 12:50:44 AM »
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  • Now, you are doubling down.

    No, he's just pointing out that you don't know the meaning of the word calumny.

    Offline Always

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #207 on: July 12, 2023, 01:31:55 AM »
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  • No, he's just pointing out that you don't know the meaning of the word calumny.

    I can understand your wanting to come to his defense having read some of the very friendly chit chat between you two CathInfo Hero Members, but you're over your head on this one.  You are out and out wrong.  I know the meaning of calumny quite well and have for a very long time.

    At least he was apparently willing to call it a day and finally go to :sleep:, but you like a good buddy just had to jump in and get your two cents in. The daily CathInfo record setter for having the last word!  Just please don't expect me to engage with you anymore on this.  Hope you agree that the issue is not worth an iota more of either of our time and that if you do quote my post here you quote it in full.

    Offline cassini

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #208 on: July 12, 2023, 08:14:28 AM »
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  • Augustine and the Shape of the Earth: A Critique of Leo Ferrari

    One of the guiding concerns of Augustine’s interpretation of Genesis was to avoid confrontation between the literal sense of Scripture and the knowledge of the natural world that had been attained by the philosophers. This explains his repeated assertion that quarrels over details only detract the Christian reader from the essential aim of biblical lecture, namely his personal salvation.
    In this context, his neutral presentation of the spherical model as “hypothetical” is best understood as part of his effort to liberate the exegesis of Genesis from the strictures imposed by the need to reconcile it with any particular cosmological theory. At the same time, however, his discussions of the natural world clearly reflect his classical or “pagan” education, for which reason it is no surprise that some of his remarks presuppose the spherical conception of heaven and earth. Ferrari is certainly correct in insisting that Augustine does not go out of his way to defend this picture. But neither is he able to show conclusively that Augustine committed himself to any other cosmological model. The important point to make is that Augustine’s works were written for purposes other than furthering insight into the structure of the natural world.
    Any attempt to construct a single unified “cosmography” from these works is thus open to serious criticism

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #209 on: July 12, 2023, 09:30:41 AM »
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  • Augustine and the Shape of the Earth: A Critique of Leo Ferrari

    One of the guiding concerns of Augustine’s interpretation of Genesis was to avoid confrontation between the literal sense of Scripture and the knowledge of the natural world that had been attained by the philosophers. This explains his repeated assertion that quarrels over details only detract the Christian reader from the essential aim of biblical lecture, namely his personal salvation.
    In this context, his neutral presentation of the spherical model as “hypothetical” is best understood as part of his effort to liberate the exegesis of Genesis from the strictures imposed by the need to reconcile it with any particular cosmological theory. At the same time, however, his discussions of the natural world clearly reflect his classical or “pagan” education, for which reason it is no surprise that some of his remarks presuppose the spherical conception of heaven and earth. Ferrari is certainly correct in insisting that Augustine does not go out of his way to defend this picture. But neither is he able to show conclusively that Augustine committed himself to any other cosmological model. The important point to make is that Augustine’s works were written for purposes other than furthering insight into the structure of the natural world.
    Any attempt to construct a single unified “cosmography” from these works is thus open to serious criticism


    By saying Augustine avoided confrontation between the literal sense of scripture and knowledge of the natural world (as if Augustine feared they were separate or in opposition) we can already tell Ferrari is not really getting to the truth.  Ferrari attempts to pit science and scripture against each other to distract from what Augustine is saying. Ferrari's "Augustine is waffling"  is already suspect since Augustine's work is called "The Literal Meaning of Genesis". 

    Augustine tells us that scripture describes a flat earth.  If people open their eyes, scripture does it all over the place. Scripture never describes a ball earth. Never. And for those who pretend the original word orbis means globe, it doesn't mean globe, it means earth, terra, world or circle. The Holy Ghost uses the word compass in His description, something not possible on a global scale.  Google knows the true definition, even if they can't refrain from slipping their view in on the third definition below, saying earth is the third planet from the sun. :facepalm:   


    Orbis Latin Dictionary


    Orbis
    Earth

    Orbis
    Circle


    Orbis
    Third planet from the sun




    We can see in Augustine expresses doubt that the sun even works on a globe.

      25.  "But if that primordial light had been poured round the mass of the earth on all sides to cover it all, whether it was stationary (geocentric globe) or circling round (heliocentric globe), there would have been no part in which it could let night into follow it, because it would not itself have withdrawn from anywhere to make room for it."


    Augustine questions the globe further and finishes with: "Who would say such a thing, when he can see the fields of the sea, spread out level on all sides."


    Globe promoters will fight tooth and nail to insist earth is a globe, but when confronted with information and facts, they either refuse to read or deal with it, or, they tell us it doesn't really matter.  Or, that we have to all wait until we're dead to find out the truth. Or that God doesn't tell us anything about it. This lack of desire to get to the truth says it all. I have yet to find a globe earther that has not tried this and other maneuvers to avoid dealing with the truth when their argument falls apart.   

    Sorry about the text, I tried to clean it up without changing definitions.  Look it up for your own info.