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Author Topic: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis  (Read 55945 times)

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Online AnthonyPadua

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Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
« Reply #135 on: July 09, 2023, 12:45:46 AM »
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    • Quote from: Donachie on July 08, 2023, 07:46:48 PM
     people may not like Descartes but the x,y,z axes are in all this all the way and there's no where around Earth where the Sun makes a flat Earth turn and rises in the West and sets in the East.
    Unless Enochs portals are real... Though this is just speculation.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #136 on: July 09, 2023, 07:06:17 AM »
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    • Quote from: AnthonyPadua on July 09, 2023, 12:45:46 AM
    Unless Enochs portals are real... Though this is just speculation.

    I'm glad you understand what he's talking about.

    In any case, I'm not sure that the sun remains parallel over the flat earth.  My guess actually is that it moves up and down the firmament some.  So, as it gets further North, it moves up the face of the firmament somewhat higher, and then as it goes further South, it goes lower.  This explains perfectly why the sun moves slower in the North and faster in the South.  It's the same reason that according to the globe theory the earth rotates faster at the equator and slower as you head further north, because you cover a 360 degree rotation in the same amount of time.  And it also explains why days seem to be of similar length despite the changes of speed, because the sun is lower in the sky in the south and therefore disappears due to perspective more quickly, but takes longer to converge with the horizon in the north because it's higher in the sky there.  So the dome (semi-spherical) shape of the firmament has it all make sense, as opposed to there being some kind of mystery about how the sun accelerates in speed as it goes farther south.  Nearly all the Church Fathers held that the sun was IN the firmament, in which case it wouldn't move parallel over the earth.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #137 on: July 09, 2023, 07:45:26 AM »
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    • So, this here is the model that most FEs just put out there by habit  ...


    But I think it's wrong.  It doesn't really provide an explanation for why the sun moves faster in the South and slower in the North.  And, if it's moving faster in the South, then why aren't the lengths of days significantly shorter in the South?

    But if you realize that the sun is IN the firmament, all of that makes perfect sense, as the firmament is dome shaped (part of a sphere).  Consequently, if the entire firmament makes a full rotation in 24 hours, then things higher up on the sphere would move slower than things lower on the sphere, because the perimeter of a full circle is smaller in the North than it is in the South.  THEN, although the sun is moving faster in the Southern hemisphere, it disappears more quickly from view because it's also lower to the flat surface of the earth ... resulting in the fact that the lengths of days are similar in North and South (in opposite seasons of course), despite this difference of speed.  Putting the sun back into the dome-shaped firmament where it belongs instead of on a parallel flat plane suddenly makes sense of these unresolved questions in the model above.



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    Online AnthonyPadua

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #138 on: July 09, 2023, 08:03:07 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on July 08, 2023, 11:41:16 AM
    Along the lines of clocks and sundials, this Antikythera Mechanism is amazing ...

    This video didn't really do anything for flat earth. Though it was a strong proof that (((science))) is trying to break away from geocentrism.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #139 on: July 09, 2023, 08:13:30 AM »
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    • Quote from: AnthonyPadua on July 09, 2023, 08:03:07 AM
    This video didn't really do anything for flat earth. Though it was a strong proof that (((science))) is trying to break away from geocentrism.

    Basically, what it was saying that the original reconstruction of the mechanism showed the sun and moon above the plane of the earth, and then this other guy came along and reinvented it by adding about 100 extra hypothetical parts to it, where I think the original reconstruction only need to add about 7.
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    Online AnthonyPadua

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #140 on: July 09, 2023, 08:16:23 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on July 09, 2023, 07:45:26 AM
    So, this here is the model that most FEs just put out there by habit  ...


    But I think it's wrong.  It doesn't really provide an explanation for why the sun moves faster in the South and slower in the North.  And, if it's moving faster in the South, then why aren't the lengths of days significantly shorter in the South?

    But if you realize that the sun is IN the firmament, all of that makes perfect sense, as the firmament is dome shaped (part of a sphere).  Consequently, if the entire firmament makes a full rotation in 24 hours, then things higher up on the sphere would move slower than things lower on the sphere, because the perimeter of a full circle is smaller in the North than it is in the South.  THEN, although the sun is moving faster in the Southern hemisphere, it disappears more quickly from view because it's also lower to the flat surface of the earth ... resulting in the fact that the lengths of days are similar in North and South (in opposite seasons of course), despite this difference of speed.  Putting the sun back into the dome-shaped firmament where it belongs instead of on a parallel flat plane suddenly makes sense of these unresolved questions in the model above.


    About that 2nd image. I can understand the things contained inside the firmament, but what about the stuff outside it? Like the waters outisde, do they just sit there? Is the waters outside curved (like in the image)?, also the pilliars of the earth are connected to what? or abyss/ocean, what are they founded on?

    I don't expect a solution but it bothers me... 
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #141 on: July 09, 2023, 11:18:20 AM »
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    • Quote from: Donachie on July 08, 2023, 07:46:48 PM
    The analemma repeats itself throught the soltices and equinoxes, proving the point again, as you admit here, that the Sun is always rising in the East and setting in the West, as the Bible says, which means it is coming back around all the time, and the Earth is as spherical as pure space itself. The only way the Sun is engaged in anything like an infinite motion is in the repetiton of said motion which is circular and along the celestial latitudes and longitudes which prefigure a Euclidean sphere out of intersecting planes in logic itself besides space.

    Some people may not like Descartes but the x,y,z axes are in all this all the way and there's no where around Earth where the Sun makes a flat Earth turn and rises in the West and sets in the East.

    There is a way the sun works on a flat earth people often don't consider, at least not for long.  Enoch explains the whole thing, but then, it is only Enoch, a man taken to the first heaven to be shown how the celestials work.  Dismissing his explanation because you don't think it matters or don't understand it, does not negate the operations described.  Until you can disprove Enoch, you have not proven your case. You merely accept pagans' word over a man that Christ refers to in scripture. There are other fe models of course, but again, the first provided is probably correct and perhaps even workable within the flat earth models of today with some adjustments. The globe doesn't work no matter what. 

    The analemma is a composite of the sun over the course of a year, taken over a particular spot showing how the sun provides for times and seasons, a perfect explanation for differences in weather between north and south. The pattern is not possible on a globe. There is not enough area coverage to cover space over an entire globe over the year, especially on the other side, yet it obviously works over a flat earth.  At one point in July, 99% of all known land mass is lit by the sun.  Not possible on a globe. Besides the sun, we also have Polaris, which viewed through a telescope, night after night, year after year, century after century, remains in the exact same spot.  Not possible on a globe.  If the globe spins, well, that doesn't work, it would disappear during progressions through the days and seasons.  If the globe dangles in space without spinning or movement, 50% of the countries would never be able to view Polaris, yet it is visible everywhere east to west, and the north, and several degrees south.  There is an exception in the far south, due to perspective over a large plane, but that isn't at issue here, because most countries can view Polaris, which is not possible on the globe.  Again, these visible and docuмented realities need to be proven wrong before one can attempt to debunk flat earth.


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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #142 on: July 09, 2023, 11:22:41 AM »
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    • Quote from: AnthonyPadua on July 09, 2023, 08:16:23 AM
    About that 2nd image. I can understand the things contained inside the firmament, but what about the stuff outside it? Like the waters outisde, do they just sit there? Is the waters outside curved (like in the image)?, also the pilliars of the earth are connected to what? or abyss/ocean, what are they founded on?

    I don't expect a solution but it bothers me...

    It's no different than the problem of space.  Does it have an end?  If so, where does it end and what is the boundary?  We don't know if these waters are contained in something else.  That's just a picture, and I wouldn't read too much into it.  I just showed it as an illustration of how the parallel movement of sun and moon over the flat plane of the earth ignores the idea that the sun and moon are in the firmament.  If they were in the firmament, the firmament would be dome shaped or a hemisphere.  Thus, as the sun went further North (aka, toward the center), it would also climb in altitude as it moved "North" and lower in "altitude" when it got South.  This is much more satisfactory than the typical FE proposal that the sun and moon are in a parallel plane above the earth.  Why does the sun "accelerate" when it moves South?  And if it's accelerating, why are the days in the Southern Hemisphere and the Northern (in opposite seasons) roughly the same length.  Well, that too is explained by the lowering of altitude.  While it's moving faster in the South, it's also at a lower altitude, and thus it would converge more quickly with the horizon.  Both those phenomena are not adequately explained by the parallel planes.

    I'm pretty sure also, if I recall, that the Book of Enoch also describes the sun going higher and lower in altitude at different times.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #143 on: July 09, 2023, 01:50:45 PM »
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    • Quote from: cassini on July 08, 2023, 12:00:00 PM
    Why is it that this subject brings out the worst in so many? Calling one another idiots does not prove either side is correct. Belief in God does not depend on how one perceives the shape of the Earth. Showing that a flat Earth meets all the conditions necessary while a global Earth can do the same, neither proves or falsifies the true order. Given the Church has never ruled on the subject, as it did with geocentrism, means it is a matter outside of Church teaching. So, let us all calm down and wait until the day God will show us how He created the shape of the Earth.

    If we could all just believe that the earth is a globe, then we could all get along....well....on this subject anyway.

    The subject of the shape of the earth is going to cause friction and division, but it can't really be helped. Since, as you say, the Church hasn't ruled on the shape of the earth, then we are free to debate it. Even if that means there will be animosity in doing so. And there WILL be animosity. There is a HUGE difference between the model of a globe earth, and a flat earth. That's why we need to debate the subject.

    I don't understand why some on this thread believe that Sungenis is above criticism. He is not. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Always

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #144 on: July 09, 2023, 05:02:47 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on July 09, 2023, 01:50:45 PM


    I don't understand why some on this thread believe that Sungenis is above criticism. He is not.

    I wonder who they are.  I certainly am not one of them, and if Sungenis was on this thread, I guarantee you that he, himself would not be one of them!  He vigorously defends what he believe in while at the same time not holding himself above criticism. 
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #145 on: July 09, 2023, 05:29:35 PM »
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    • Quote from: Always on July 09, 2023, 05:02:47 PM
    I wonder who they are.  I certainly am not one of them, and if Sungenis was on this thread, I guarantee you that he, himself would not be one of them!  He vigorously defends what he believe in while at the same time not holding himself above criticism.
    If Sungenis can't defend his position for the sake of traditional Catholics, let the criticism commence. 
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #146 on: July 09, 2023, 05:38:48 PM »
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    • Toward the beginning of one of his anti-flat earth articles Robert Sungenis says:

    "As we will see, it is their poor exegesis of the Bible that drives (flat earthers) to think that everything NASA
    tells them about the Earth is a lie. Although it can be shown in some cases that NASA is certainly not the highest epitome of truth and honesty, it is quite another thing to claim that NASA deliberately forges pictures of a spherical Earth, a large sun, or the existence planets."




    So, Sungenis is admits NASA lies, but NASA lies only a little bit. :laugh2:


    Sungenis even tells us “…in some cases that NASA is certainly not the highest epitome of truth and honesty.”

    Ya think?
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    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #147 on: July 09, 2023, 05:57:30 PM »
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    • It's nice when they don't lie about the topic one is supporting.  lol
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    Offline Always

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #148 on: July 09, 2023, 06:15:41 PM »
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    • Quote from: Tradman on July 09, 2023, 05:29:35 PM
    If Sungenis can't defend his position for the sake of traditional Catholics, let the criticism commence.

    Where have you been?!  He can defend and he has defended his positions for years (and not just for the sake of traditional Catholics, but for all kinds of people) in all kinds of venues for what he believes (whether you agree with him or not) is the truth.  As for the criticism of things he asserts or doesn't assert that commenced decades ago! 
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    Offline Always

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    Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
    « Reply #149 on: July 09, 2023, 06:27:26 PM »
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    • Quote from: MiracleOfTheSun on July 09, 2023, 05:57:30 PM
    It's nice when they don't lie about the topic one is supporting.  lol

    NASA says light comes from the Sun.  That's really nice since they don't lie about my same belief on the subject.
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