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Author Topic: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis  (Read 77858 times)

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Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
« Reply #305 on: July 15, 2023, 12:42:26 PM »
Of course, it does not prove that the earth is a globe.  That is obvious.  It does, however, make it highly implausible that Church condemnations of Copernicism should be understood to include the proposition that the earth is a globe.  (As a general rule, Church condemnations should be understood to apply only to that which is explicitly stated.)
Agreed. I'm not convinced at all the globe was condemned together with heliocentrism.

It's just indicative that the father of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ Pythagoras was credited with influence on both the globe and heliocentrism.

Offline Tradman

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Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
« Reply #306 on: July 15, 2023, 01:05:23 PM »
 (As a general rule, Church condemnations should be understood to apply only to that which is explicitly stated.)

This is a stretch. Some Catholics believe abortion is wrong, except in the case where there's danger to the life of the mother, and they believe it is justified. The Ten Commandments don't explicitly say anything about abortion, just murder, yet the Church rightly teaches not just qualified abortion in most cases, but all abortion is wrong.  It's all there in context even before you search docuмents to find specifics.

To suggest that the condemnations of Galileo were only about the movement of the earth while the Galileo summary written at the time shows that Church authorities condemned the Pythagorean/Copernican/heliocentric model entirely, and the movement specifically, we can all see, they weren't trying to retain some of it by only specifying movement.  One would absolutely need to prove they did not include the globe since the globe is necessary to the pagan doctrine so soundly condemned by description in the summary as well as contrary to the beliefs of the Fathers and Scripture.  Just because you don't recognize Scripture describes a flat earth doesn't mean the Fathers didn't think so.  In fact, it's been proven here on CI many times over.   


Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
« Reply #307 on: July 15, 2023, 01:50:50 PM »
(As a general rule, Church condemnations should be understood to apply only to that which is explicitly stated.)

This is a stretch. Some Catholics believe abortion is wrong, except in the case where there's danger to the life of the mother, and they believe it is justified. The Ten Commandments don't explicitly say anything about abortion, just murder, yet the Church rightly teaches not just qualified abortion in most cases, but all abortion is wrong.  It's all there in context even before you search docuмents to find specifics.

To suggest that the condemnations of Galileo were only about the movement of the earth while the Galileo summary written at the time shows that Church authorities condemned the Pythagorean/Copernican/heliocentric model entirely, and the movement specifically, we can all see, they weren't trying to retain some of it by only specifying movement.  One would absolutely need to prove they did not include the globe since the globe is necessary to the pagan doctrine so soundly condemned by description in the summary as well as contrary to the beliefs of the Fathers and Scripture.  Just because you don't recognize Scripture describes a flat earth doesn't mean the Fathers didn't think so.  In fact, it's been proven here on CI many times over. 
The commandment against murder is not just implying that abortion is wrong, it's explicitly forbidding it because it's no different than killing an innocent adult.

It's not the same thing as a non-infallible condemnation implying something.

better example would be implications of the sixth commandment.

Offline Tradman

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Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
« Reply #308 on: July 15, 2023, 02:05:24 PM »
The commandment against murder is not just implying that abortion is wrong, it's explicitly forbidding it because it's no different than killing an innocent adult.

It's not the same thing as a non-infallible condemnation implying something.

A better example would be implications of the sixth commandment.

Much better

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis
« Reply #309 on: July 15, 2023, 04:29:50 PM »
Jaynek, the 2 questions I have for you are:

1.  Based on Tradmans quotes, +Bellarmine believed the earth didn’t move, had a firmament, and also had a foundation.  Do you agree/disagree with +Bellarmine?

(As an aside, I’m not sure how the modern picture of a globe earth could have a firmament.  Also, which part of earth is closest to the “foundation” (ie pointing “down”?).  If the earth never moves and it rests on something, then how does the sun go under the earth?  

2.  How do you explain the numerous false “curvature” calculation experiments on the web?  Things which should be hidden by the curve are not.  Do you admit that such curvature measurements are a lie?