Author Topic: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis (Read 78342 times)

Miser Peccator · « **Reply #220 on:** July 12, 2023, 09:15:56 PM »

"a watery and spherical mass"

could apply to both models but only one corresponds to Sacred Scripture:

Marulus Fidelis · « **Reply #221 on:** July 13, 2023, 01:42:50 AM »

Quote from: Jaynek on July 12, 2023, 06:42:54 PM

Tradman, did you actually read the entire On the Literal Meaning of Genesis or do you base your understanding on isolated quotes? I find it hard to believe that a person who had read the whole thing would misunderstand it as badly as you do.

Here is a passage in which St. Augustine is being explicitly critical of literal interpretation:

19. "And God said, 'Let there be light,' and the light was made." We ought to understand that God did not say, "Let there be light," by a sound brought forth from the lungs, or by the tongue and teeth. Such thoughts are those of carnal persons, and to be wise in accord with the flesh is death. "Let there be light," was spoken ineffably. One can ask whether what was spoken is the only-begotten Son. For what was spoken is called the Word of God by whom all things were made. Only let us banish the impiety of believing that the Word of God, the only-begotten Son, comes about like a sound uttered by us.

Jaynek · « **Reply #222 on:** July 13, 2023, 04:55:06 AM »

Quote from: Tradman on July 12, 2023, 09:09:07 PM

This doesn't show that scripture or Augustine isn't talking about the literal. It's obvious that God doesn't speak with a human voice. God is a spirit. Scripture just says God spoke. That is, He willed it, and it was done.

St. Augustine writes of four ways of understanding Scripture proper to Catholics:

in accord with history, allegory, analogy, and etiology. It is a matter of history when deeds done-whether by men or by God-are reported. It is a matter of allegory when things spoken in figures are understood. It is a matter of analogy, when the conformity of the Old and New Testaments is shown. It is a matter of etiology when the causes of what is said or done are reported

This first sense is sometimes called the literal sense. St. Augustine wrote two books about the literal meaning of Genesis in which the focus was what actually, historically happened rather than the other three ways of understanding. Neither of these was an exhortation to take everything in Genesis (or Scripture in general) literally, that is, without recognizing figures of speech. Expressions in Scripture about God speaking, having a mouth, hands or arms are not literal and it is incorrect to understand them that way, since as you say, God is a spirit.

Anyone who reads these works in their entirety can see that St. Augustine explitly taught that Scripture is silent on the shape of the earth. He disagrees with every flat earther who claims that Scripture teaches the earth is flat. His view (which is also the Catholic view and my personal view) is that Scripture teaches neither that the earth is flat nor that it is a globe.

It is not possible to have actually read his works (rather than isolated quotes) and think anything else. Scholars discuss what Augustine personally believed and the vast majority conclude that he believed in a globe earth. A notable exception is Leo Ferrari, who wrote a famous paper on the thesis that Augustine personally believed in flat earth. The work the poster cassini quoted was a critique of Ferrari's paper. (I have read the entire critique and think that the author made a good case that Ferrari was wrong.)

Tradman, you did not answer my question about whether you read On the Literal Meaning of Genesis. Given how wrong your understanding of this work is, I am going to assume that you did not. I would be interested in discussing this work with anyone who as read it and especially interested in finding a functional link for it. But I don't have anything to say to people who simply make false assertions about Augustine's views.

Marulus Fidelis · « **Reply #223 on:** July 13, 2023, 05:55:17 AM »

Jaynek do you believe in evolution and do you think Augustine supports it?

Jaynek · « **Reply #224 on:** July 13, 2023, 06:48:20 AM »

Quote from: Marulus Fidelis on July 13, 2023, 05:55:17 AM

Jaynek do you believe in evolution and do you think Augustine supports it?

I accept what the Church taught on the subject in the encyclical Humani Generis: https://www.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/en/encyclicals/docuмents/hf_p-xii_enc_12081950_humani-generis.html

I think that St. Augustine neither supports nor rejects it, since the theory did not exist in his life time. We can safely say, however, that he would not accept any theory that denied that truth that God is the Creator of the universe.

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Author Topic: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis (Read 78342 times)

Miser Peccator

Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis

Marulus Fidelis

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Jaynek

Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis

Marulus Fidelis

Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis

Jaynek

Re: New Geocentrism Book by Robert Sungenis