[Neil Obstat]

That is the globe of creation. The flat earth is in the center of the globe of creation.

troll

[Truth is Eternal]

troll

You have already lost. You try to tell God to uncreate the flat earth to fit you Freemasonic heresy and you will find out God won't listen to you. :applause:

[happenby]

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Anywhere in outer space, "down" is toward the planet Earth, and "up" is away from planet Earth, because "up and down" is an earth-centered principle, and therefore without Earth these words mean nothing.
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One could argue about an astronaut standing on the moon or some other planet and speaking of "up" or "down" as if in context of being on that other large body of matter not the earth. Well, we are not on such a planet or moon so we don't have to be concerned with that. Some say we'll never be on such a place, so it's a matter of science fiction, practically speaking.
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Therefore Earth remains the central figure of what "up" and "down" means.
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Fascinating.  So when Kirk says, "Beam me up, Scotty", We can expect him to beam to earth? 

[MyrnaM]

happenby have you always been attracted to fantasy?

[happenby]

happenby have you always been attracted to fantasy?

Fantasy? Sure. Let's pick one.  Its probably dope to live upside down. My anti-gravity pods might leak particles that jam communications and put pressure on the bulkhead.  But what the hay?  Subsequent planetary pole shift is a real danger because it can knock scanners off line sending everything into emergency warp drive and draining the phaser banks. If the transporter becomes inoperable, escape would be impossible. Star Base teams can recreate templates for reconstruction, but pre-60's tubes and transistors within the main panel are finicky and could cause photon torpedoes to shoot randomly. Extended shore leave is indicated at that point.   

[roscoe]

That is the globe of creation. The flat earth is in the center of the globe of creation.

Is the Sun flat?

[Carissima]

Fantasy? Sure. Let's pick one.  Its probably dope to live upside down. My anti-gravity pods might leak particles that jam communications and put pressure on the bulkhead.  But what the hay?  Subsequent planetary pole shift is a real danger because it can knock scanners off line sending everything into emergency warp drive and draining the phaser banks. If the transporter becomes inoperable, escape would be impossible. Star Base teams can recreate templates for reconstruction, but pre-60's tubes and transistors within the main panel are finicky and could cause photon torpedoes to shoot randomly. Extended shore leave is indicated at that point.  

Wow happenby did you learn NASA as a second language?

[Carissima]

Is the Sun flat?

Does it matter? We see the sun everyday, it is what it is. 
Walking around on the outside of a spinning ball ‘globe’ however, makes no sense. Walking on a flat plane under a dome Firmament is the ‘inside’ or ‘center’ of a ‘globe creation’. That is what TIE is referring to. 

[Carissima]

Can’t leave out the Firmament anymore guys come on! 

Let’s get that Globe model with a tent pitched around it already sheesh! 

[aryzia]

Why does it make no sense? Do you know God's mind? Is it possible that God ordered creation in a way that does not make sense to your imperfect, non-omniscient mind?

God is not unreasonable even if He is above.

[aryzia]

This is a lie. The Church Fathers as a whole did not teach GE was an error. Only one condemned it and a few expressed that their personal belief was that the Earth was flat. Others clearly believed in a Globe Earth and/or taught that it was definitely not a matter of religion necessary for Salvation.
https://www.cathinfo.com/the-library/church-fathers-did-not-condemn-flat-earth/

None taught earth is a globe. The ones who actually taught anything taught earth is as scripture literally describes. Flat.

[happenby]

Not true. Read the quotes in the link provided.

I read them, there was not a single teaching that earth is a globe.   

[happenby]

I was actually responding to the "The ones who actually taught anything taught earth is as scripture literally describes. Flat." part of her comment. St. Augustine and St. Basil are really the only ones who are technically "teaching" about the topic and they take the position that this subject of shapes is not part of Scripture nor is it relevant to our faith.
Aside from that you need to read the quotes again because it seems that this quote from St. Gregory Nyssa is teaching Globe Earth.

St. Gregory also says the sun is many times the size of the Earth, Eusebius says the stars orbit our globe,

St. Gregory is clearing mocking the globe.  Origen was a flat earther, so your quote, which is quite vague, cannot possibly be a teaching that earth is a globe.   He also says its the Greeks, (the pagans) that use the term spheres. 
Now, for the record, not one of your quotes was useful for showing the Father's taught the globe.

[happenby]

Do you actually know how to make a real, non straw-man argument.
I saidI wasn't really intending to show they taught the globe earth. Even though this passage from St. Gregory does.
St Gregory is clearly not mocking the globe earth and the fact that you are saying that shows me that you have not taken the time to look this passage up and read the whole thing. This shows me that you are not interested in learning anything about this subject. This also tells me you are definitely a troll trying to either keep people from looking into the subjects of real importance or are just trying to discredit the FE position.

Oh, I read it.  Did you?  
Let me post it again for you so you can understand what it says, because you continue to get it wrong.


"For if it is true, what you say , and also that the vault of heaven prolongs itself so uninterruptedly that it encircles all things with itself, and that the earth and its surroundings are poised in the middle, and that the motion of all the revolving bodies is round this fixed and solid centre, then, I say, there is an absolute necessity that, whatever may happen to each one of the atoms on the upper side of the earth, the same will happen on the opposite side, seeing that one single substance encompasses its entire bulk. As, when the sun shines above the earth, the shadow is spread over its lower part, because its spherical shape makes it impossible for it to be clasped all round at one and the same time by the rays, and necessarily, on whatever side the sun's rays may fall on some particular point of the globe, if we follow a straight diameter, we shall find shadow upon the opposite point, and so, continuously, at the opposite end of the direct line of the rays shadow moves round that globe, keeping pace with the sun, so that equally in their turn both the upper half and the under half of the earth are in light and darkness."


St. Gregory is pretty clear here.  He uses their model against them by saying.  "For IF it is true, what you say", ..but then St. Gregory shows what is response is. "THEN  I SAY...."  By the time he gets done, following their model to logical conclusions, he shows them that if what they are saying is true, then both the upper half and the under half of the earth are simultaneously in light and darkness.  In other words, their model doesn't work.    

[Jaynek]

St Gregory is clearly not mocking the globe earth and the fact that you are saying that shows me that you have not taken the time to look this passage up and read the whole thing.

Here is the essay from which the passage is taken.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/2915.htm

In context it is very clear that St. Gregory is not mocking the globe earth and that he believes it himself.  Happenby is completely misunderstanding it by taking it in isolation.

The claim that all the Fathers taught/believed in a flat earth simply is not true.