[RoughAshlar]

Seriously, though, Neil, what's your motivation for being so into this issue?  You've spilled a lot of metaphorical ink on this subject.

What, is it harmful to faith if some people think the earth is flat?

If I believed that something was complete fantasy or lunacy (as you claim about flat earth), let's say that someone thought we were under attack by elves from Mars, I would just say, "uh, OK" and move along.  I wouldn't stand there for five hours debating the issue.

To be fair, the metaphorical ink spills both ways.  I don't see many threads started trying to convince people that earth is round. I think 10 out of the 12 last threads were promoting flat earth.  I do like what you had stated earlier about accepting or rejecting a paradigm shift.  I can not speak for Neil, but what drew me into discussion and debates where the polarized statements...or statements of absolute proof.  There is a spectrum of belief among the flat earthers, yet everything they post is an absolute proof.  Going back, there were statements about the moon being translucent, planets not really existing, satellites existing, gravity not existing, and its blasphemous and an insult to God to believe that the earth is a globe...there are even disagreements between the flat earthers of how things work such as moonlight.  For being absolutely convinced the earth is not a globe, there is no working model, or set of absolute flat earth facts they all agree on.  To my knowledge, they can't predict solar and lunar eclipses, or explain lunar phases or eclipses with any model.  I don't believe the book of Enoch counts as biblical or scientific explanations as previously posted.  Just my thoughts on the matter.

[happenby]

To be fair, the metaphorical ink spills both ways.  I don't see many threads started trying to convince people that earth is round. I think 10 out of the 12 last threads were promoting flat earth.  I do like what you had stated earlier about accepting or rejecting a paradigm shift.  I can not speak for Neil, but what drew me into discussion and debates where the polarized statements...or statements of absolute proof.  There is a spectrum of belief among the flat earthers, yet everything they post is an absolute proof.  Going back, there were statements about the moon being translucent, planets not really existing, satellites existing, gravity not existing, and its blasphemous and an insult to God to believe that the earth is a globe...there are even disagreements between the flat earthers of how things work such as moonlight.  For being absolutely convinced the earth is not a globe, there is no working model, or set of absolute flat earth facts they all agree on.  To my knowledge, they can't predict solar and lunar eclipses, or explain lunar phases or eclipses with any model.  I don't believe the book of Enoch counts as biblical or scientific explanations as previously posted.  Just my thoughts on the matter.

To be fair, people don't try to convince anyone the world is round because that is the very paradigm that is being challenged.  The status quo, which is shown on so many levels to be false, literally doesn't hold water. Don't forget, just because we can see through the haze and recognize we're being lied to doesn't necessarily endow us with the years of information we would like to have to overcome it instantly.  After all, we're being lied to, false information is being dumped down our gullets and the truth has been buried.  You may not be convinced, or care to know, but if heliocentric, spherical earth is a lie, its certainly a whopper, and there must be something pretty huge at stake.  One sure way to NOT know, is to ignore what is said here and go about your business.  But the suggestion that flat earthers cannot predict solar eclipses (they are mathematically predicted so anyone can do it) or that fe'rs don't have considerable information they do agree on would be less than true.  Keep an open mind.  There's so much more to know.   

[Neil Obstat]

Seriously, though, Neil, what's your motivation for being so into this issue?  You've spilled a lot of metaphorical ink on this subject.

What, is it harmful to faith if some people think the earth is flat?

If I believed that something was complete fantasy or lunacy (as you claim about flat earth), let's say that someone thought we were under attack by elves from Mars, I would just say, "uh, OK" and move along.  I wouldn't stand there for five hours debating the issue.

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If you've been paying attention, I've already explained this. 
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[Neil Obstat]

And that's why I do not engage Neil in debate anymore, which is little more than an exercise in futility. Neil is capable of being civil, if he so chooses, but more often than not, he chooses to insult those who hold to FE.

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Anytime you or any of the other flat-earthers want to have a reasonable discussion, I'm ready and waiting.
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So far, no dice.
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[Neil Obstat]

An apology? For what?  You believe in the globe.  Unashamedly.  There are no apologies for telling the truth even you agree with!  

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Go back to the OP and read it and your reply. Here, I'll post it for you:
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Neil seems to have nothing to actually say about the topic of Flat Earth, other than he fears it and  wants it to go away.  I think that's pathetic.  No one really wants to talk to him on this sub-forum.  Jaynek was at least interesting, thoughtful, had a position and tried to defend it.  Even Seven seemed to put more thought into it than Neil does.  Ladislaus certainly does.  But Neil seems to have nothing to offer The Sub-Forum, but whining, complaining and scorn.  If he doesn't like Flat Earth, than why does he participate?  I think it is because he is afraid of it.  If that seems unreasonable, it is because his fear is not motivated by reason;  it is motivated by strong emotions, that have overwhelmed his reason, causing him to have such an extreme prejudice against Flat Earth, that he is motivated or rather driven to fight it, by any means necessary, regardless of their veracity/morality.  

I pity a man who is enslaved by his fears, but I cannot judge him to harshly.  Even St. Peter fearing the Jєωs, denied Christ.  

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Its sad, really.  I mean, what is so unreasonable about flat earth?  That everyone is on the same level playing field?  That God literally resides as God above all men? There seems to be an underlying jealousy, a kind of pride in being above and beyond God and other men (relatively speaking) that the globe instigates within those who choose to believe it.  It is a strange reversal of the simplicity of truth, a hope to gain human respect by explaining away contradiction and lies.  Ball earth is Gnostic through and through. The globe is a modern fig leaf for those hiding from the penetrating eyes of God.    

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The OP presumes to know my intentions, and gets it all wrong (because I have already explained them elsewhere which the OP ignores). And you should know better. But no, you commisserate with the error by saying "Its sad" [sic].
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So besides continuing to misspell, you have gone right along with the insult.  You can't bother to hear what I have said already but instead prattle on about "even playing field" and God's residence.
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I want an apology from you for accusing me of having bad intentions, lacking "veracity/morality", of being "afraid" of flat-earthism and for having nothing to contribute.
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As soon as you apologize for your presumption of my intentions, then I will re-state them for all to see.
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First things first. First comes your apology, then comes my explanation. And I think you might like it, actually.
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[Neil Obstat]

To be fair, people don't try to convince anyone the world is round because that is the very paradigm that is being challenged.  The status quo, which is shown on so many levels to be false, literally doesn't hold water.

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On the surface, posting here has been a challenge for me to think about the multitude of reasons that lead us inexorably to the necessary conclusion of the sphericity of the earth. Like you say, the status quo is already accepting of it so there are not many summaries of all the various reasons to which we can refer to know the earth is not "flat."
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But it goes much deeper than that, and has to do with public perception of flat-earthers. Don't you want to know? 
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First your apology for accusing me of having ulterior motives, including "immoral" ones. (see previous post)
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[Truth is Eternal]

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On the surface, posting here has been a challenge for me to think about the multitude of reasons that lead us inexorably to the necessary conclusion of the sphericity of the earth. Like you say, the status quo is already accepting of it so there are not many summaries of all the various reasons to which we can refer to know the earth is not "flat."
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But it goes much deeper than that, and has to do with public perception of flat-earthers. Don't you want to know?
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First your apology for accusing me of having ulterior motives, including "immoral" ones. (see previous post)
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I accuse you of having immoral ulterior motives when it comes to refusing to admit the horizontal horizon is horizontal.

[Carissima]

...but what drew me into discussion and debates where the polarized statements...or statements of absolute proof.  There is a spectrum of belief among the flat earthers, yet everything they post is an absolute proof.  Going back, there were statements about the moon being translucent, planets not really existing, satellites existing, gravity not existing, and its blasphemous and an insult to God to believe that the earth is a globe...there are even disagreements between the flat earthers of how things work such as moonlight.  For being absolutely convinced the earth is not a globe, there is no working model, or set of absolute flat earth facts they all agree on.  To my knowledge, they can't predict solar and lunar eclipses, or explain lunar phases or eclipses with any model.  I don't believe the book of Enoch counts as biblical or scientific explanations as previously posted.  Just my thoughts on the matter.

Who, in this present day and age, has all the answers about anything? 

A flat earther must start sifting through decades of lies and false science. It is a big job and a tall order for any one person, and for the most part, we are on our own searching for the truth. It is a journey. 

No one knew all the answers about 9/11 when the truth started to come out. 
More than likely one would be laughed right outta town if they tried to inform anyone that their own government had something to do with that infamous day. 

Can you imagine a convert to the Catholic Faith navigating their way through the confusion in The Church today? 
Some examples;
Sedevacantism/resistance, Indult/FSSP, SSPX/Motu Propio, valid/non-valid Sacraments, laicized/not laicized priests, this disobedient bishop/and that one over there too, this chapel is crazy/that one is no better 
Hmmm, so where are all the answers? Shouldn’t Catholics at the very least have the answers?

Prayer+Sacrifice=Miracles right?

[happenby]

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On the surface, posting here has been a challenge for me to think about the multitude of reasons that lead us inexorably to the necessary conclusion of the sphericity of the earth. Like you say, the status quo is already accepting of it so there are not many summaries of all the various reasons to which we can refer to know the earth is not "flat."
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But it goes much deeper than that, and has to do with public perception of flat-earthers. Don't you want to know?
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First your apology for accusing me of having ulterior motives, including "immoral" ones. (see previous post)
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Too bad you missed your anxiously anticipated apology.  That's good though.  I've decided that I prefer to have you believe that you were victorious for having made me look rude for not apologizing to you.    

[Viva Cristo Rey]

Sacred Heart of Jesus holding globe

[happenby]

Sacred Heart of Jesus holding globe

Yes, this depiction is likely more recent because the figures on the globe appear to have continents--a modern interpretation. But in the more ancient depictions of the globus cruciger, the globe always represented the entirety of creation, not just earth... as the Fathers have explained.  This would be far more consistent with doctrine because God is the God of all creation, not just of the earth.  If the globe is only the earth, that suggests that God isn't the God of the heavens, or the planets and stars, for instance.  Catholics never promoted a globe earth until it started creeping into art once the condemnation of heliocentrism was disparaged and forgotten.  Up till then, Christendom reflected details of its doctrine far more carefully in art.  One parallel would be the Sr Faustina Christ devoid of a heart.  Such a thing was unheard of in ancient times.   

[Truth is Eternal]

Sacred Heart of Jesus holding globe

The horizon always appears perfectly flat 360 degrees around the observer regardless of altitude. All amateur balloon, rocket, plane and drone footage show a completely flat horizon over 20+ miles high. Only NASA and other government "space agencies" show curvature in their fake CGI photos/videos.

The horizon always rises to the eye level of the observer as altitude is gained, so you never have to look down to see it. If Earth were in fact a globe, no matter how large, as you ascended the horizon would stay fixed and the observer / camera would have to tilt looking down further and further to see it.

The natural physics of water is to find and maintain its level. If Earth were a giant sphere tilted, wobbling and hurdling through infinite space then truly flat, consistently level surfaces would not exist here. But since Earth is in fact an extended flat plane, this fundamental physical property of fluids finding and remaining level is consistent with experience and common sense.

[Jaynek]

What, is it harmful to faith if some people think the earth is flat?

If I believed that something was complete fantasy or lunacy (as you claim about flat earth), let's say that someone thought we were under attack by elves from Mars, I would just say, "uh, OK" and move along.  I wouldn't stand there for five hours debating the issue.

Yes it is harmful to proclaim the earth is flat.  It causes scandal.  St. Augustine wrote about what happens when Catholics speak against well-known facts concerning "the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world":

Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men.

Dictionaries give definitions for flat-earther like "A person who believes or advocates an outlandish, discredited theory; a person who refuses to acknowledge the truth despite overwhelming evidence." When Catholics become associated with this idea, it destroys our credibility, making us less able to communicate truths necessary for salvation.

I am grateful that Neil keeps posting against flat earth, making it clear that only a small minority of trads accept a flat earth.

Keep up the good work, Neil.

[Truth is Eternal]

Yes it is harmful to proclaim the earth is flat.  It causes scandal.  St. Augustine wrote about what happens when Catholics speak against well-known facts concerning "the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world":

Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men.

Dictionaries give definitions for flat-earther like "A person who believes or advocates an outlandish, discredited theory; a person who refuses to acknowledge the truth despite overwhelming evidence." When Catholics become associated with this idea, it destroys our credibility, making us less able to communicate truths necessary for salvation.

I am grateful that Neil keeps posting against flat earth, making it clear that only a small minority of trads accept a flat earth.

Keep up the good work, Neil.

I am grateful that Neil keeps posting against flat earth and in the process is converting more people to our side. Keep up the good work Neil. NEIL OBSTAT IS THE BIGGEST PROMOTER OF THE FLAT EARTH ON CATHINFO.COM.

[happenby]

Yes it is harmful to proclaim the earth is flat.  It causes scandal.  St. Augustine wrote about what happens when Catholics speak against well-known facts concerning "the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world":

Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men.

Dictionaries give definitions for flat-earther like "A person who believes or advocates an outlandish, discredited theory; a person who refuses to acknowledge the truth despite overwhelming evidence." When Catholics become associated with this idea, it destroys our credibility, making us less able to communicate truths necessary for salvation.

I am grateful that Neil keeps posting against flat earth, making it clear that only a small minority of trads accept a flat earth.

Keep up the good work, Neil.

Seriously?  Are you suggesting that it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing that a pagan hear a Christian teach the true meaning of Holy Scripture? 
That's right. You better not say yes.