Did you read the link in the O.P.?

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Are you referring to this?
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We have taken some notice of NASA's goal of certifying evolution thru its "Origins Program". We have also seen how that goal is being achieved thru a modus operandi involving high-tech computer programmed telescope and camera simulations. What needs to be made perfectly clear now are two factors which blow away NASA's masquerade as "science" and reveal its true identity as an agent of a religion dedicated to the destruction of New Testament Christianity. Those two factors are: 1) NASA's entire rationale rests on the acceptance of the infinitely squirrelly Big Bang Expanding Universe hypothesis; and 2) That Big Bang hypothesis comes straight out of the Kabbala (Cabala) which is found in the anti-Christian "holy book" Zohar.

The Big Bang hypothesis--which is now the keystone of virtually all modern astronomical musings-- incorporates at least these four features (in addition to the Copernican Model) which cannot be altered lest NASA's plans (along with all of modern academic astronomy and physics) fall flat. These four features are:

A tiny bit of exploding energy, not God, created the universe and all that is in it. (It's ok to postulate some pagan g'd or force, etc., just so it's not the Biblical God who neither required nor used the Kabbalist billions of years of evolution.)

That exploded energy and all it allegedly created is still receding from the blast at great speed and provides a central plank in modern cosmology referred to as the expanding universe.

The alleged Big Blast occurred c.15 billion years ago. The energy turned to matter (Einstein) and formed the Earth 4.6 billion years ago (give or take a couple of months). All the points of light called stars which we can see with our eyes and with normal telescopes are said to be many light years away. The invisible but technology-manufactured galaxies of stars are said to be hundreds, and thousands, and millions, and billions of light years away...and on and on and on and on and on....

Einstein (named "Person of the Century" before '99 ended) still dictates the parameters of cosmology from the grave. The speed limit he put on light travel, the ether he removed so his calculations would work, the elasticity of time in space travel, the dogma that all motion is relative (the train and the train station nonsense), etc., is all cosmological gospel in the textbooks.

Since the Big Bang is the capstone of this gargantuan edifice of evidence-free hypotheses, discovering its roots should be of particular interest not only to those who hotly maintain that "Real Science" must be free of any kind of religious contamination or manipulation, but also to all folks anywhere who prefer Truth to deception regardless of any severe jolts to their personal beliefs and training which might result....

So, the long and the short of it is this: The whole ball of wax--from the Big Bang thru Einsteinian Relativity and NASA's Virtual Reality-based, Bible-bashing evolutionism--stems not from one single scientific fact, but rather, HAS ITS TAPROOT IN MYSTICAL KABBALISM.

Nuclear physicist, Dr. Gerald Schroeder, lets this cat out of the bag in his 17 page Web article entitled: "The Age of the Universe". Schroeder--formerly on the MIT staff, a member of the Atomic Energy Commission, author, lecturer in Jerusalem, etc., does not challenge the Big Bang cosmology and all that rests upon it in this revealing article. He supports all of it. Indeed, the thrust of his article is to demonstrate that hundreds of years ago the Kabbala set forth a clear description of what is now called the Big Bang explanation for the origin of the universe. In other words: Big Bang cosmology has its roots in the Kabbala.

The evidence Schroeder presents is two-fold: A) That the Jєωιѕн Torah word for "the first day" in Genesis is really "day one", and the Hebrew meaning of that allows not only for the Big Bang's 15 billion year odyssey, but that it also accommodates Einstein's Relativity in all of its space, matter, and time hypotheses. B)  The Kabbalist (Cabalist) Nachmanides (Rabbi ben Nachman: 1194-1270) does provide Dr. Schroeder (and all of modern physics and astronomy!) with the "Scriptural", Spiritual foundation that he (and how many others?!) are using to justify and establish Big Bangism and all that goes with it...all the while presenting Big Bangism as a purely secular "scientific" concept....

So, let's see what we've got here.... Our search engine brings up "The Jєωιѕн Student Online Research Center" to tell us about Nachmanides & the Kabbala (in case you don't already know...). We read:

"Nachmanides was the foremost halakist [rabbinical discussions of purely legal matters in the тαℓмυd] of his age. Like Maimonides before him, Nachmanides was a Spaniard who was both a physician and a great Torah scholar. However, unlike the rationalist Maimonides, Nachmanides had a strong mystical bent. His biblical commentaries are the first ones to incorporate the mystical teachings of kabala."

Then, these two interesting sidelights are mentioned: "He (Nachmanides) was well-known for HIS AGGRESSIVE REFUTATIONS OF CHRISTIANITY... and could be described AS ONE OF HISTORY'S FIRST ZIONISTS, because he declared that it is a mitzvah to take possession of Israel and to live in it...."

Hmmm... I can't let those two nuggets go by without at least parenthetically underscoring: 1) The "aggressive" anti-Christian nature of Kabbalism (which is spelled out in the most malicious terms also in the тαℓмυd); and 2) The fact that Kabbalism not only originated and endorses Big Bangism, but also provides the Spiritual heartbeat of the whole "back to Israel" Zionist movement which culminated with the establishment of Israel in 1948; and 3) That the controlling doctrine of "end time" Christian TV evangelism is squarely based on the same heartbeat....

The origin of this doctrine is Kabbalist "scripture", not the Bible, and all the grunting and sweating to make it Biblical is not only false teaching but actually promotes a mystical religion sworn to eradicate the Bible's teachings! There are several books that show  why this Kabbalist-Zionist doctrine is not possible if the New Testament of Jesus Christ is true. Kabbalists--along with тαℓмυdists--hate Jesus and His followers. They have tricked Christians not only into making Zionist Machiavelianism the most visible "Christian" thing on the Telly, they have also allowed Kabbalism to torpedo Bible credibility amidships with the crazy Big Bang cosmology. That cosmology demands a moving earth when the Bible says it isn't moving. That cosmology provides the billions of years for an old earth and gradual evolutionism when the Bible declares it was created ex nihilo in six days some 6000 years ago. Christians must wake up and see that the Kabbala and not the Bible is the source of many of their doctrines!) [See The Rapture...Millennialism.... Also, links that declare Millennialism Scripturally impossible can be evaluated: New or Renewed Earth - Does Jesus Return to Earth? - King Now - 7th Trumpet. Christians are going to have to make a choice as to which "holy book" they are going to follow: The Bible with its New Testament of Jesus Christ, or Kabbala/тαℓмυdis, the sworn destroyers of that New Testament and of the Christ it presents.]

That parenthesis aside, the dictionary definition of Cabala (Kabbala) is appropriate here too. It says: "Cabala: a system of esoteric theosophy [claims of mystical insight into the divine nature] and theurgy [ancient magic] developed by rabbis from the 7th to 18th centuries...based on a mythical method of interpreting the scriptures to penetrate sacred mysteries and foretell the future."

Also, under the heading "Kabbalah" put out by the Jєωιѕн Center mentioned above, these additional definitions and descriptions are given:

"Kabbalah is the name applied to the whole range of Jєωιѕн mystical activity...."

"The rabbis of the тαℓмυd regarded the mystical study of God as important yet dangerous...." [They were right on that!]

"The most famous work of Kabbalah, the Zohar, was revealed to the Jєωιѕн world in the thirteenth century by Moses De Leon, who claimed that the book contained the mystical writings of the second-century rabbi Simeon bar Yochai...."

"Orthodox mystics are apt to see Bar Yochai not so much as the Zohar's author as the recorder of mystical traditions dating back to the time of Moses...."

"Whereas most commentaries interpret the Torah as a narrative and legal work, mystics are as likely to interpret it `AS A SYSTEM OF SYMBOLS WHICH REVEAL THE SECRET LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE AND EVEN THE SECRETS OF GOD'."

Given that it is the Kabbalah's rendering of the Genesis Scripture which allows for modern cosmology's Big Bang paradigm (and NASA's "Origins Program"!), it is instructive to include another Jєωιѕн scholar's assessment of the Kabbala:

"A precisely opposite view on the value of kabbalah was taken by the late Professor Saul Lieberman, the great тαℓмυd scholar of the Jєωιѕн Theology Seminary. In an introduction to a lecture [where several students wanted to study kabbalistic texts] he told them that...it is forbidden to have a course in nonsense...."

There is mention also that the kabbalah teaches a "belief in reincarnation"; that "kabbalah was widely considered to be the true Jєωιѕн theology between 1500 and 1800, and almost no one attacked it"; that "in recent years, there has been an upsurge of interest in kabbalah, and today it is commonly studied among Hasidic Jews, and among many non-Orthodox Jews WHO ARE PART OF THE COUNTERCULTURE."(Could this be part of the same counterculture we saw (NASAs Hanky-Panky) which turned into the now highly perfumed Cyberpunks who passionately embrace the Virtual Reality technology?? Was Carl Hallucinate Sagan's real mission at NASA to use the Space Program as a Kabbalistic tool to destroy Bible Creationism once and for all with its Big Bang-dependent, Virtual Reality fueled "Origins Program"?? It walks and talks like a Duck.... Yikes! It is a Duck, Donald!

Quoting Big Banger, physicist Schroeder:

"Nachmanides the kabbalist...says that although the days [of Genesis One] are 24 hours each, they contain 'kol yemot ha olam'--all the ages and all the secrets of the world.... Nachmanides says: There's only one physical creation, and that creation was a tiny speck.... In that speck was all the raw material that should be used for making everything else.... As this speck expanded out, this substance--so thin that it has no essence--turned into matter as we know it.... The moment that matter formed from this substanceless substance, time grabs hold.... Einstein's...E=MC2, tells us that energy can change into matter. And once it changes into matter, time grabs hold.... This moment of time before the clock begins for the Bible lasted about 1/100,000 of a second. A miniscule time. But in that time, the universe expanded from a tiny speck to about the size of the solar system. From that moment on we have matter, and time flows outward."

[c.3pp. further along...] "Let's look at the development of time, day by day, based on the expansion factor [1 million times 1 million from start till now].... The calculations come out to be as follows:

• The first Biblical day lasted 24 hours...But...from our perspective it was 8 billion years.
• The second day of 24 hours...was 4 billion years.
• The third day...was 2 billion years.
• The fourth day...1 billion years.
• The fifth day...1/2 billion years.
• The sixth day...1/4 billion years.

"[size={defaultattr}][font={defaultattr}]Then you add it up [Schroeder continues] and you get 15 3/4 billion years... the same as modern cosmology allows...."

Well, in sanforized form there you have the Kabbalist basis for the Big Bang, the expanding universe, the Einsteinian clock, and key aspects of modern textbook cosmology. That foundation is Kabbalistic black magic using invented mathematics to make the rabbit come out of the hat. Prof. Lieberman says it is nonsense. Several big time physicists quoted in THE EARTH IS NOT MOVING declare that--as a result of such nonsense--the whole field of modern physics is a science that doesn't have both oars in the water, to put it mildly.

And yet, modern man's knowledge generally, and NASA's Bible-bashing agenda particularly, rests on this "nonsense".

For Christians (and the great number of Jews not fooled by Kabbalistic Zionism and evolutionism)--and for anybody else who can receive a love of the Truth (II Thess. 2:10)--it is time to understand that the source of all those billions of years that uphold Satan's kingdom of Babylon today derives from an ancient mystic spiritual force determined to smash Bible Christianity and bring about the triumph of Kabbalism, Zoharism, and тαℓмυdism.

NASA'S role in all this is the proof in the pudding.

(Go back to "NASA's Agenda: Promoting Copernicanism and Evolutionism")

(Go back to "NASA's Hanky-Panky: Virtual Reality Technology")

The Real Universe?!

What's left but: A Small, Young Universe After All?!

(Also: "...Flagrant Deceptions in the Measurement of Star Distances")[/font][/size]
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Yes.

Neil,

So you have read the link in the O.P. 

Do you have a problem with NASA's Origens program?

Or....are you okay with it? 

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Here's a quip with lots of problems.
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Can anyone here define what "substanceless substance" is, from which they're saying matter formed?
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They break their own rule here, quoting Einstein (who said that matter cannot exceed the speed of light), then saying that the entire universe broke his universal speed limit when in 1/100,000th of a second it expanded to the size of our solar system, because it takes light over 8 minutes to get from the sun to the earth, let alone across the whole solar system, but one-one-hundred thousandth of a second?
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Give me a break.
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Are you basically okay with NASA's Origins program?

If people were only discussing science, I doubt that I would have ever posted on this topic.  Science normally isn't something that is very important to me.

Unfortunately, most of the flat earth proponents posting here seem to make false claims about the Catholic faith.  They say that flat earth is a Catholic position.  They treat their personal interpretations of Scripture as if they were as inerrant as Scripture itself.  They use non-canonical sources (like Enoch) as if they were authoritative.  They treat the personal opinions of Church Fathers as if these were somehow binding Church teaching.  They ignore/twist magisterial teaching on how we should understand Scripture pertaining to questions of cosmology.

These are serious errors because they misrepresent Catholicism.  The Catholic Church is the guardian of truth in the world so it is of the highest importance to only speak the truth regrading Church teaching.  Being right or wrong about the shape of the earth has little significance, but making untrue claims about Catholicism endangers souls.

I greatly enjoyed my Lenten break from flat earth debates.  It is frustrating to interact with people who stubbornly cling to falsehoods no matter what one says.  I have been seriously considering dropping out of these discussions.  But I am not sure that I can do so with a clear conscience.  Do I fail in my duty to the Catholic faith if I leave their constant false claims about the Church unopposed?

St. Augustine famously wrote: “We distribute the human race into two kinds of men, one living according to man, the other living according to God. Mystically, we call them two Cities, or two societies of men: the one of which is predestined to reign eternally with God, the other to suffer eternal punishment with the devil.” (City of God, 15, 1.)
If we look still more closely, we discover that, at root, what produces these two cities is how the members in each of the two societies use their wills. It all depends on whom and how deeply they love and what they are willing to pay as the price of their love. “These two Cities are made by two loves: the early City by love of oneself even to the contempt of God; the heavenly City by love of God even to the contempt of self. The one glories in itself, the other glories in God. The one seeks glory from men; to the other, God, witness of conscience, is its glory. The one lifts up its head in its own glory; the other says to its God, “My glory and the one who raises my head”, (Psalm 3:3), (The City of God, 14, 28.)

In studying the spiritual roots of beliefs held by men, we find an either/or situation according to St. Augustine.  Spherical earth is repeatedly and unapologetically anti-God with its Big Bang lies and Kabbalistic roots.  Pretending that science cannot be infected with false ideas bearing evil spiritual fruit is a purposeful blindness that helps to maintain the impenetrable walls of the city of man and everything found therein.    

If we look still more closely, we discover that, at root, what produces these two cities is how the members in each of the two societies use their wills. It all depends on whom and how deeply they love and what they are willing to pay as the price of their love. “These two Cities are made by two loves: the early City by love of oneself even to the contempt of God; the heavenly City by love of God even to the contempt of self. The one glories in itself, the other glories in God. The one seeks glory from men; to the other, God, witness of conscience, is its glory. The one lifts up its head in its own glory; the other says to its God, “My glory and the one who raises my head”, (Psalm 3:3), (The City of God, 14, 28.)

I like the analogy above, which says that..."These two cities are made by two loves: the early City by love of oneself even to the contempt of God; the heavenly City by love of God even to the contempt of self. The one glories in itself, the other glories in God."

The flat earth, at least for Catholics here, has more to do with love of God rather than love of self. At least I would hope that this is the case. It seems to be, to me. I've been reading a book by a Novus Ordo Cardinal (a big no-no, I know) but it contains some good insight into our very human preoccupation with ourselves, rather than God. It also speaks to silence and nature. Here are a couple of quotes that are related, I think, to the topic at hand:

"It is necessary to protect precious silence from all parasitical noise of our "ego" which never stops claiming its rights, plunging us into an excessive preoccupation with ourselves. The noise of our memory, which draws us toward the past, that of our recollections or of our sins. The noise of temptation or of acedia, the spirit of gluttony, lust, avarice, sadness, vanity, pride--in short: everything that makes up the spiritual combat that man must wage every day. In order to silence these parasitical noises, in order to consume everything in the sweet flame of the Holy Spirit, silence is the supreme antidote."

"Creation itself is a silent word of God. The wordless beauty of nature displays before our eyes the manifold riches of a Father who is ceaselessly present among men. This divine speech is not audible to ears that are too human. Nevertheless, it is the most profound speech of all. The sun, the moon, and the stars are absolutely silent to our ears, but they are a word and a message essential to our human existence. There is a language of the stars that we can neither know nor comprehend but that God understands perfectly."

If people were only discussing science, I doubt that I would have ever posted on this topic.  Science normally isn't something that is very important to me.

Unfortunately, most of the flat earth proponents posting here seem to make false claims about the Catholic faith.  They say that flat earth is a Catholic position.  They treat their personal interpretations of Scripture as if they were as inerrant as Scripture itself.  They use non-canonical sources (like Enoch) as if they were authoritative.  They treat the personal opinions of Church Fathers as if these were somehow binding Church teaching.  They ignore/twist magisterial teaching on how we should understand Scripture pertaining to questions of cosmology.

These are serious errors because they misrepresent Catholicism.  The Catholic Church is the guardian of truth in the world so it is of the highest importance to only speak the truth regrading Church teaching.  Being right or wrong about the shape of the earth has little significance, but making untrue claims about Catholicism endangers souls.

I greatly enjoyed my Lenten break from flat earth debates.  It is frustrating to interact with people who stubbornly cling to falsehoods no matter what one says.  I have been seriously considering dropping out of these discussions.  But I am not sure that I can do so with a clear conscience.  Do I fail in my duty to the Catholic faith if I leave their constant false claims about the Church unopposed?

The horizon always appears perfectly flat 360 degrees around the observer regardless of altitude. All amateur balloon, rocket, plane and drone footage show a completely flat horizon over 20+ miles high. Only NASA and other government "space agencies" show curvature in their fake CGI photos/videos.

The horizon always rises to the eye level of the observer as altitude is gained, so you never have to look down to see it. If Earth were in fact a globe, no matter how large, as you ascended the horizon would stay fixed and the observer / camera would have to tilt looking down further and further to see it.

The natural physics of water is to find and maintain its level. If Earth were a giant sphere tilted, wobbling and hurdling through infinite space then truly flat, consistently level surfaces would not exist here. But since Earth is in fact an extended flat plane, this fundamental physical property of fluids finding and remaining level is consistent with experience and common sense.

It seems to me that Catholics who treat flat earth as a matter of faith want to see themselves as better Catholics than the usual ones who believe the earth is spherical.

Most Catholics who believe in a spherical earth seem to me to be simply accepting the norm for Catholics for the past thousand plus years.  Such Catholics aren't interested in drawing attention to themselves or trying to be special or better than others.  They are just going along with a well-established Catholic tradition.

The above comment doesn't have anything to do with what I was trying to say. It would be nice if you could make an effort to understand what is being written, before you comment on it.