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Offline Gray2023

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Moon experiment
« on: May 05, 2025, 01:42:14 PM »
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  • Ok.  I have been pondering this Flat Earth question and the one thing that keeps bothering me is the see too far scenario.  I think I have come up with a full proof experiment that could prove or disprove the shape of the Earth.  I tried looking on the internet for the experiment, but I have not found anything.

    Experiment:  Look at the moon at moon rise or moon set over a body of water, preferably over an ocean with a telescope.  It has to be a perfectly clear night.

    Items needed:  Moon rise or moon set time tables, a good telescope one that allows you to see the rings of Saturn, and a view across a big body of water.

    What you would expect to find:

    1) If the earth is flat, you would see that the moon never disappears by the set time.
    2) If the earth is round, you will loose visual on the moon by the set time.

    Comment if you want.  Do the experiment yourself?  Find a well done video on the experiment already done.

    Think this stupid, then just move on.  I at some point, hopefully in the next 10 years, will do this experiment myself.



    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Moon experiment
    « Reply #1 on: May 05, 2025, 03:40:25 PM »
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  • What you would expect to find:

    1) If the earth is flat, you would see that the moon never disappears by the set time.
    2) If the earth is round, you will loose visual on the moon by the set time.

    I don't think that's accurate, as we've just spent a lot of time discussing multiple reasons why something could disappear "over the horizon" at the set time, including distance, atmospheric conditions, etc.  What was "set time" determined by and who determined it, i.e. what "authority" determined that time.

    I just don't think you'd even get consensus on when conditions were right ot take the proper readings.

    If you look at the history of even the 6-mile Rowbotham experiment, they went out there multiple times on a wager, and each time they were thwarted by fog, other effects on visibility, etc.  So the one time the glober claimed to have won (there was a monetary wager) because the flag on the boat disappeared, but then there was fog that night, and it went to court and the guy got his money back.

    While not "stupid", I think that you'd have to have every potential objection addressed.

    So, for instance, we have plenty of stuff out there where things can be seen too far, my favorite being the one lighthouse that reaches only 200 feet above sea level, but was photographed from about 237 miles or so (from memory) away by some professional photographer whose picture was then certified by some agency.  So, the reason this is compelling is because it was NOT done by a Flat Earther, AND it was certified by some agency ... so you can't claim it was just faked by an FE with an agenda.  Photographer taking it didn't even think to consider the curvature problem.

    So you put that out there, and the globers refuse to accept because they say the magic word ... "refraction".  Yeah, sure.  From 150 miles away, where the degree of refraction would have to be perfectly the same from one yard to the next for 200 miles, otherwise, if you had slightly different rates of refraction at any given stretch along the way, the light from the image would clobber light  that came in with different refraction rates, resulting in at best an incredibly blurry image, if it were visible at all ... and this thing was crystal clear, meaning the rate of refraction remained absolutely constant for 200 miles.  Ridiculous.  But, the point is ... if you do your experiment, depending on which side it favors, there will be some explanation for it, whether legitimate or not, whether it's just saying "refraction" or they say that there was excessive humidity in the air causing the moon to disappear prematurely (let's say if it sets before either model would have it setting under ideal conditions).

    Just too much variability, and too many people would dispute it.

    I think they do have technology out there, especially the DoD that could effectively do laser-leveling using a combination of GPS and other techniques where refraction cannot happen ... but they likely won't release that.  There was the one group in Brazil that constructed an ingenious experiment where they took two skyscrapers that were miles apart and had some sophisticated GPS tech accurate to within a couple centimeters.  If the earth were a ball, the tops of the skyscrapers would be farther away from one another than the bottoms, since the buildings would be built perpendiculate to the plane beneath it and would therfore lean away from one another on a ball, whereas on a flat earth, they would roughly be the same distance apart.  They said that their equipment reigistered that the respective tops and bottoms of the buildings were exactly the same distance apart plus-or-minus the accuracy of the equipment (which was very high and could not account for explaining away the result).  Unfortunately, I have no been able to find any publication with the results, and of course anyone could claim they just made up the results, so we'd have to replicate the experiment.  But the point is that I do believe that there's some apparatus, some scientific equipment, out there that can settle the claim.  Not sure about this advanced GPS these guys were using (they say they had to borrow it from a university where they had one of about a half dozen in the entire country) ... but I'm sure the military has stuff too.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Moon experiment
    « Reply #2 on: May 05, 2025, 03:46:28 PM »
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  • A few problems with this experiment. 
    1) You're assuming the moon is an object and not a light (as described in Scripture).  If it's a light, then you'd not be able to see it "disappear" in the same way as a fixed object.
    2) If the moon is a light like Scripture says, then it won't "disappear" (per se), it will just be "outshown" in brightness by the sun.  Since the sun moves throughout the year, as does the moon, then even comparing 2 different days would give 2 different results.

    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Moon experiment
    « Reply #3 on: May 05, 2025, 04:22:57 PM »
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  • I don't think that's accurate, as we've just spent a lot of time discussing multiple reasons why something could disappear "over the horizon" at the set time, including distance, atmospheric conditions, etc.  What was "set time" determined by and who determined it, i.e. what "authority" determined that time.

    I just don't think you'd even get consensus on when conditions were right ot take the proper readings.

    If you look at the history of even the 6-mile Rowbotham experiment, they went out there multiple times on a wager, and each time they were thwarted by fog, other effects on visibility, etc.  So the one time the glober claimed to have won (there was a monetary wager) because the flag on the boat disappeared, but then there was fog that night, and it went to court and the guy got his money back.

    While not "stupid", I think that you'd have to have every potential objection addressed.

    So, for instance, we have plenty of stuff out there where things can be seen too far, my favorite being the one lighthouse that reaches only 200 feet above sea level, but was photographed from about 237 miles or so (from memory) away by some professional photographer whose picture was then certified by some agency.  So, the reason this is compelling is because it was NOT done by a Flat Earther, AND it was certified by some agency ... so you can't claim it was just faked by an FE with an agenda.  Photographer taking it didn't even think to consider the curvature problem.

    So you put that out there, and the globers refuse to accept because they say the magic word ... "refraction".  Yeah, sure.  From 150 miles away, where the degree of refraction would have to be perfectly the same from one yard to the next for 200 miles, otherwise, if you had slightly different rates of refraction at any given stretch along the way, the light from the image would clobber light  that came in with different refraction rates, resulting in at best an incredibly blurry image, if it were visible at all ... and this thing was crystal clear, meaning the rate of refraction remained absolutely constant for 200 miles.  Ridiculous.  But, the point is ... if you do your experiment, depending on which side it favors, there will be some explanation for it, whether legitimate or not, whether it's just saying "refraction" or they say that there was excessive humidity in the air causing the moon to disappear prematurely (let's say if it sets before either model would have it setting under ideal conditions).

    Just too much variability, and too many people would dispute it.

    I think they do have technology out there, especially the DoD that could effectively do laser-leveling using a combination of GPS and other techniques where refraction cannot happen ... but they likely won't release that.  There was the one group in Brazil that constructed an ingenious experiment where they took two skyscrapers that were miles apart and had some sophisticated GPS tech accurate to within a couple centimeters.  If the earth were a ball, the tops of the skyscrapers would be farther away from one another than the bottoms, since the buildings would be built perpendiculate to the plane beneath it and would therfore lean away from one another on a ball, whereas on a flat earth, they would roughly be the same distance apart.  They said that their equipment reigistered that the respective tops and bottoms of the buildings were exactly the same distance apart plus-or-minus the accuracy of the equipment (which was very high and could not account for explaining away the result).  Unfortunately, I have no been able to find any publication with the results, and of course anyone could claim they just made up the results, so we'd have to replicate the experiment.  But the point is that I do believe that there's some apparatus, some scientific equipment, out there that can settle the claim.  Not sure about this advanced GPS these guys were using (they say they had to borrow it from a university where they had one of about a half dozen in the entire country) ... but I'm sure the military has stuff too.

    I think it is not that complicated.

    We can see the moon above us.  If the moon travels parallel to the earth then it would never disappear we could track it in the sky with a telescope.  We might not be able to see it with a naked eye, but we would be able to continue to see it with a telescope.  Just like we can see Saturn's rings with a telescope.

    I don't think we have to use something that is on the earth to measure this besides a telescope.

    The next date that we could do this experiment is on Oct 6 at 847pm in California. Based on this information on this site

    https://www.timeanddate.com/moon/phases/usa/los-angeles

    The moon will be full and setting over the ocean in California in October after 8 pm.  It will be dark so the moon should just continue in its rotation and it would not disappear if the earth was flat.  It would disappear if the earth is curved.


    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Moon experiment
    « Reply #4 on: May 05, 2025, 04:34:30 PM »
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  • I think it is not that complicated.

    We can see the moon above us.  If the moon travels parallel to the earth then it would never disappear we could track it in the sky with a telescope.  We might not be able to see it with a naked eye, but we would be able to continue to see it with a telescope.  Just like we can see Saturn's rings with a telescope.

    I don't think we have to use something that is on the earth to measure this besides a telescope.

    The next date that we could do this experiment is on Oct 6 at 847pm in California. Based on this information on this site

    https://www.timeanddate.com/moon/phases/usa/los-angeles

    The moon will be full and setting over the ocean in California in October after 8 pm.  It will be dark so the moon should just continue in its rotation and it would not disappear if the earth was flat.  It would disappear if the earth is curved.
    You could do it in New York on June 11 at 343am or Aug 9 at 354am at moon rise.  As you see the moon rise, then you would look at it with the telescope.  There should be a gap between the earth and the moon.  If there is the earth is flat.  If there isn't the earth is curved.
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"


    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Moon experiment
    « Reply #5 on: May 05, 2025, 04:49:13 PM »
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  • A few problems with this experiment. 
    1) You're assuming the moon is an object and not a light (as described in Scripture).  If it's a light, then you'd not be able to see it "disappear" in the same way as a fixed object.
    2) If the moon is a light like Scripture says, then it won't "disappear" (per se), it will just be "outshown" in brightness by the sun.  Since the sun moves throughout the year, as does the moon, then even comparing 2 different days would give 2 different results.
    I find it strange that you have never seen the unlit part of the moon.  I have been fascinated with the night sky my whole life and sometimes you can see the unlit part of the moon and sometimes you can't.  I don't completely understand why.
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Moon experiment
    « Reply #6 on: May 05, 2025, 05:18:18 PM »
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  • A size gauge placed in the telescope where it would be in focus with the moon would help determine whether the moon is shrinking from getting further away, or staying the same size as it sinks below the horizon.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
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    Offline AMDG forever

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    Re: Moon experiment
    « Reply #7 on: May 05, 2025, 05:46:18 PM »
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  • A few problems with this experiment. 
    1) You're assuming the moon is an object and not a light (as described in Scripture).  If it's a light, then you'd not be able to see it "disappear" in the same way as a fixed object.
    2) If the moon is a light like Scripture says, then it won't "disappear" (per se), it will just be "outshown" in brightness by the sun.  Since the sun moves throughout the year, as does the moon, then even comparing 2 different days would give 2 different results.

    Dude, this is exactly why I don’t take you flat earth wackos seriously. The retardation is astronomical. (pardon the pun):laugh2:


    Offline Predestination2

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    Re: Moon experiment
    « Reply #8 on: May 05, 2025, 05:55:46 PM »
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  • Dude, this is exactly why I don’t take you flat earth wackos seriously. The retardation is astronomical. (pardon the pun):laugh2:
    Prove the moon is terra firma then
    Vatican 2 was worse than both WW1 and WW2 combined.
    So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Moon experiment
    « Reply #9 on: May 05, 2025, 06:14:26 PM »
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  • NASA = moon is a rock which emits no light. 

    Scripture = moon is a light source. 

    If you’re a real catholic, you have to admit NASA’s story is (at least partially) wrong.  Maybe the moon is still a rock which emits light?  But it’s not just a rock.  NASA is wrong.  Admit it. 

    Some of you argue that the earth is a globe, because Gid created all the other planets as globes, so there “has to be” some symmetry. 

    Following that logic,
    A) since God created both the sun and moon as light sources, there must be some symmetry. 
    B) the sun isn’t a rock which emits light.  It’s a huge ball of fire, basically. 
    C). Therefore, God wouldn’t have made the moon a rock either.  It’s a plasma ball (as some scientists postulate).

    Sorry, we didn’t land on the moon.  NASA lied and has gotten trillions of $s since the 60s.  Accept reality. 

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Moon experiment
    « Reply #10 on: May 05, 2025, 06:26:37 PM »
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  • I wondered about this since I was a kid. It wasn't until I started researching "flat earth" that a light bulb went off.
    There is NO WAY the moon is a spherical ball that produces no light.

    A sphere sitting on a flat surface only makes contact with ONE POINT of that sphere. Everything else is various distances away from the surface.

    The same with light. There is no way the closest POINT of the moon wouldn't be brighter, and everything going away from that point (in all directions) wouldn't be LESS bright. In short, the Moon should always look 3D if it's a 3D sphere. The only way it could be uniformly lit, is if it somehow produced its own light.

    Again, this isn't about TRUSTING various characters and personalities such as Eric Dubay, David Weiss, or Austin Witsit. They could end in disgrace tomorrow, yet the things they pointed out, the truths they spread, the memes they created, would still persist. Because the truth has an intrinsic strength. Truth resonates with reality. It rings true. It makes sense.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Moon experiment
    « Reply #11 on: May 05, 2025, 06:31:53 PM »
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  • Again, we can't go into space. No one can. You might as well be talking about time travel.

    So let's keep it down to earth. DEMONSTRATE FOR ME a 3D ball, with light shining on it, where the sphere looks like a 2D glowing heavenly body. Where the center point (closest to the light source) is INDISTINGUISHABLE in luminosity with the edge of said sphere.
    I've lived a long time, and I've never seen such a thing.

    And you can't say the moon is over-saturated by light or some such. The Sun isn't *that* close to the moon. And the moon is supposed to be covered in grey dust. You should definitely discern a difference between the closest point (brightest) and the furthest points from the sun (the edges 360 degrees around). In short, it should look 3D.

    If the edges of the illuminated full moon are normal bright, then the very center of the moon should be *dazzling* since it reflects the maximum amount of sunlight a globe can reflect.
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    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Moon experiment
    « Reply #12 on: May 05, 2025, 06:47:45 PM »
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  • NASA = moon is a rock which emits no light. 

    Scripture = moon is a light source. 

    If you’re a real catholic, you have to admit NASA’s story is (at least partially) wrong.  Maybe the moon is still a rock which emits light?  But it’s not just a rock.  NASA is wrong.  Admit it. 

    Some of you argue that the earth is a globe, because Gid created all the other planets as globes, so there “has to be” some symmetry. 

    Following that logic,
    A) since God created both the sun and moon as light sources, there must be some symmetry. 
    B) the sun isn’t a rock which emits light.  It’s a huge ball of fire, basically. 
    C). Therefore, God wouldn’t have made the moon a rock either.  It’s a plasma ball (as some scientists postulate).

    Sorry, we didn’t land on the moon.  NASA lied and has gotten trillions of $s since the 60s.  Accept reality.
    You are asking me to deny what my own eyes see.  I understand what the bible says, but at dusk when the light of a moon is a little sliver you can see the rest of a round object.  How is that possible if the moon is not a hard surface and is just plasma?
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Moon experiment
    « Reply #13 on: May 05, 2025, 06:55:48 PM »
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  • You are asking me to deny what my own eyes see.  I understand what the bible says, but at dusk when the light of a moon is a little sliver you can see the rest of a round object.  How is that possible if the moon is not a hard surface and is just plasma?
    like this

    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Moon experiment
    « Reply #14 on: May 05, 2025, 07:30:01 PM »
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  • like this



    Funny you should bring that up!

    Because I always called this the "3D moon" as opposed to all the other phases where it doesn't look 3D at all.
    What's funny is that you usually CANNOT see the unlit portion of the moon -- except for this particular phase.
    There's something unique about this particular phase.

    It was my favorite phase of the moon, for most of my life, for this reason.

    But in conclusion, I must say that the 3D appearance of this particular lunar phase is a mere optical illusion. If the moon were truly 3D, it would *always* look 3D, regardless of how much/how little of it was lit.

    Even if NONE of it was lit! You should be able to see the unlit hunk of rock moon globe, at least under certain conditions. But no, it's completely gone during the New Moon phase.
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