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WHATEVER HAS BEEN RIGHTLY SAID BY THE HEATHEN, WE MUST APPROPRIATE TO OUR USES.60. Moreover, if those who are called philosophers, and especially the Platonists, have said aught that is true and in harmony with our faith, we are not only not to shrink from it, but to claim it for our own use from those who have unlawful possession of it. For, as the Egyptians had not only the idols and heavy burdens which the people of Israel hated and fled from, but also vessels and ornaments of gold and silver, and garments, which the same people when going out of Egypt appropriated to themselves, designing them for a better use, not doing this on their own authority, but by the command of God, the Egyptians themselves, in their ignorance, providing them with things which they themselves were not making a good use of;(1) in the same way all branches of heathen learning have not only false and superstitious fancies and heavy burdens of unnecessary toil, which every one of us, when going out under the leadership of Christ from the fellowship of the heathen, ought to abhor and avoid; but they contain also liberal instruction which is better adapted to the use of the truth, and some most excellent precepts of morality; and some truths in regard even to the worship of the One God are found among them. Now these are, so to speak, their gold and silver, which they did not create themselves, but dug out of the mines of God's providence which are everywhere scattered abroad, and are perversely and unlawfully prostituting to the worship of devils. These, therefore, the Christian, when he separates himself in spirit from the miserable fellowship of these men, ought to take away from them, and to devote to their proper use in preaching the gospel. Their garments, also,--that is, human institutions such as are adapted to that intercourse with men which is indispensable in this life,--we must take and turn to a Christian use.
Some here express the idea that Catholics should not believe the earth is a sphere because this idea is associated with the beliefs of pagans. They claim that to accept a spherical earth is the equivalent of joining in pagan worship.This, however, is not the traditional Catholic understanding of how we should approach the science of pagans. The Catholic view of pagan knowledge was a matter of debate by the Church Fathers. St. Augustine’s view is the one the came to be adopted by the Church. He wrote in On Christian Doctrine, Book II, Ch. 40In other words, pagans believe a mixture of true and false things and Christian have a right to take what is true from them. It is incorrect to assume a priori that anything believed by pagans is false and/or forbidden to Christians. If we have reason to think that the earth is a sphere (as is, in fact, the case) we are under no obligation to avoid this truth merely because it was also held by pagans. For "all branches of heathen learning have not only false and superstitious fancies and heavy burdens of unnecessary toil, which every one of us, when going out under the leadership of Christ from the fellowship of the heathen, ought to abhor and avoid; but they contain also liberal instruction which is better adapted to the use of the truth." We can see this principle put into practice by various Doctors of the Church, in general, and even specifically applied to the question of the shape of the earth. St. Bede, St. Albert the Great, and St. Thomas Aquinas all believed and/or taught that the earth is a sphere. They were aware of the past pagan associations with this idea, but did not hesitate to recognize it as a truth suitable for the use of Christians.
Certainly, that which is pagan and has been condemned by the Church cannot be tolerated or used.
Virtually everyone accepted a spherical earth at this time and it was not under debate.
You seem to believe, and quite strongly, that we should not be allowed to debate the subject at all on the forum. We should all be compelled to believe in a globe earth, and any dissent from the "globe earth" needs to be stifled. Isn't that your basic view?
I have zero interest in your opinion on the subject Jayne.
Spherical earth has never been condemned by the Church. You seem to think that the condemnation of heliocentrism implies this, but you are mistaken. All the major cosmological models at the time of Galileo included a spherical earth. The geocentric Ptolemaic and Tychonian models had a spherical earth as well as the heliocentric Copernican model. Virtually everyone accepted a spherical earth at this time and it was not under debate.Even if you were right about heliocentrism, the condemnation of it was lifted in 1820. There is no basis whatsoever for claiming that spherical earth is condemned by the Church. There is absolutely nothing in Church teaching that stands in the way of Catholics believing in a spherical earth.
Well, that is not how this forum works. We ARE allowed to debate controversial subjects. This isn't the 'Catholic Answers' forum.
If you are interested in discussion, perhaps you could respond to the topic of this thread rather than changing the subject and making up beliefs for me that I have never stated. If you would like a thread on who thinks this flat earth discussions belong on CI, you may start one. That is the way that forums work.
As pagan theory within the heliocentric model the globe remains condemned. It is fully promoted by pagan modern science and admitted to be refashioned by Copernicus. It contradicts Scripture and the Fathers of the Church who taught about the shape of the earth. It is unreasonable and unsustainable as a reality, contradicting known science, i.e., water maintaining its level, the horizon rising to the eye of the viewer no matter how high one goes, and the globe denies the existence of the firmament. What reason is there to believe earth is a globe, other than pagan science?
Globe earthers need to prove that the globe was not part of the heliocentric model and therefore, not condemned. As it is, the globe IS part of the heliocentric model and as a model, heliocentrism and its globe stand condemned.
Your opinion is completely false. The Church never condemned the idea of a spherical earth. It is consistent with how the Church teaches how to understand Scripture and the Fathers. People have explained the science for you but you seem unable to understand it, so there is no point in me repeating it. You appear attached to believing falsehoods.
I keep asking you what you think this proof should look like since you keep saying the history references I give are not proof. Is there anything that you would admit is proof?