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Author Topic: Review of Fr. Robinson's Modernist Guide to Science Refuting Scripture  (Read 2493 times)

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Offline ServusInutilisDomini

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Re: Review of Fr. Robinson's Modernist Guide to Science Refuting Scripture
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2022, 06:19:31 AM »
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  • Library books or sharing is a bit more borderline.  When you buy a physical book, it's like any other physical item you buy.  At some point someone has to buy the book, and there can be only one copy circulating at a time.  Meanswhile, with a digital, you can have 10,000 people reading it at the same time.
    Difference of degree cannot render a moral action immoral.
    It must be a difference of kind.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Review of Fr. Robinson's Modernist Guide to Science Refuting Scripture
    « Reply #16 on: October 13, 2022, 07:42:51 AM »
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  • So I was skimming Dr. Sungenis' book about Father Robinson.

    He agrees with my contetion here on nearly every point, that Robinson's method and attitude and approach are in fact identical to that of the Modernists.  As I said, I had 8 years of experience first-hand with these Modernists, and I know a Modernist when I see one.  Father Robinson is a Modernist.

    Some of the citations of Father Robinson made in Sungeis' book are downright blasphemous, irreverent and dismissive of Sacred Scripture.

    There's even a passage in there where Robinson endorses and praised Lyell ... a vehemently anti-Catholic (anti-Bible) dirtbag, while attacking faithful Traditional Catholic "Biblicists".



    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Review of Fr. Robinson's Modernist Guide to Science Refuting Scripture
    « Reply #17 on: October 13, 2022, 07:51:03 AM »
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  • Difference of degree cannot render a moral action immoral.
    It must be a difference of kind.

    No, it's about the intent of the author or the owner of the IP.

    So, for instance, an author could refuse to sell his book to a Library.

    This is typical to how movie studios work.  Initially they release the movie to theaters, where the stand to make the most money, but don't allow other distribution channels.  Then they'll put a DVD on sale.  With DVDs they make less money, as for the price of about two tickets to the theater, an unlimited number of people can watch the movie (even if not at the same time).  Then after a while they'll make the video available for rental or for streaming rental.

    If they didn't release first to theaters, most movies would lose money.

    So, if Dr. Sungenis wanted to sell the book to libraries, that would be his choice, knowing that he'd get less revenue from the book.

    At local libraries now, they're hooked up into eBook rental services, but nearly all the eBooks have a limit on the number of people who can "check them out" and no doubt they have to pay for each available copy.

    So all this puts some kind of a throttle on the amount of sharing that can take place.

    In theory, Dr. Sungenis could even put a notice in the book about his not authorizing lending the book to someone who has not purchased it.  But most authors don't go there.  Not only would it be bad PR, but sometimes lending a good book is a way to encourage a sale.  I've ended up buying some books that someone else has lent me.

    So, since Dr. Sungenis owns the content, he could make his will known about how he would permit it to be used (apart from "Fair Use" citations).  If he were to tell this website to pull his book, they would have to comply, both morally and legally (he could in theory sue them for posting it).

    So there's no difference in degree here, as it's all driven by the same principle, the author's intent.

    Offline Charity

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    Re: Review of Fr. Robinson's Modernist Guide to Science Refuting Scripture
    « Reply #18 on: October 13, 2022, 11:00:37 AM »
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  • There's part of me that thinks Dr. Sungenis should not enforce his rights to a work like this, since it would be wrong to deprive people of the benefit of his defense of the faith, and perhaps should just solicit a free-will offering, like shareware with software.

    This reminds me of Fr. Denis Fahey who it is said that he purposely did not get a copyright for his books because he wanted them to be disseminated to the maximum extent possible AND did not want (((them))) to buy up the copyright and then use that to suppress any further publication of his work.

    Here is an excellent article about this incredible Catholic priest: https://catholicism.org/catholic-world-of-fahey.html

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Review of Fr. Robinson's Modernist Guide to Science Refuting Scripture
    « Reply #19 on: October 14, 2022, 02:58:39 PM »
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  • ‘Does the Bible want us to read it like a science textbook using scientific language? Or is it meant to be read in another way? The answer is obvious from the very beginning of the Bible, which presents serious challenges for anyone seeking to find properly scientific information about the formation of the world, at least anyone possessing today’s knowledge of the universe’s true architecture.’ –Fr P. Robinson.-A Realist Guide to Religion and Science, Gracewing pp, 2018, p.248.

    Comment: Now any priest teaching Thomism should know what the Saint said; that the creative act of God was supernatural so cannot be described by human reason, and not by way of ‘today’s knowledge of the universe’s true architecture’ which of course is a 13.5 billion year evolution.

    ‘That the world began to exist is an object of faith, but not of demonstration or science.’ --- St. Thomas Aquinas, (Summa theologiae (I.46.2)

    ‘From a scientific perspective [which I hold], it [the universe] began its infancy at time 0, 13.72 billion years ago, it is now in its middle age and is heading towards old age billions of years in the distant future.’… Fr Paul Robinson.

    Comment:Had Fr Robinson tasted the wine changed immediately by Christ at the wedding feast he would have concluded, ‘this wine is so good it tastes matured so could not have been changed from water instantly.’ Similarly, if the light from the sun, moon and stars, no matter their distances in space, were made instantly visible to us on Earth at God’s Creation, as revealed in Genesis 1:14-16, then, on the word of God, no such delayed billions of years of star-times exist or ever existed. God created the universe with one time-zone for all, a 24-hour universal time zone.

    In his 1913 book Galileo and his Condemnation, the Jesuit Fr Hull SJ. (1863-1952) demonstrated how the Galilean reformation made inroads to evolution, reinterpretation of the Bible and the modernism in the Church since 1820.
     
    ‘Down to a generation or two ago it was the general belief of Christians that the deluge of Noah covered the whole Earth, and that it is so described in the most explicit terms in the Bible. Certain new considerations, mainly drawn from geology, led specialists to the contrary conclusion that the deluge was by no means universal, but was a comparatively local phenomenon; widespread enough to cover the area occupied by mankind at that time, but not much more….. The partial-deluge-view gradually came to look more feasible, and the possibility of interpreting Scripture accordingly became more evident. The new view gradually filtered down from learned circles to the man in the street, so that nowadays the partiality of the deluge is a matter of commonplace knowledge among all educated Christians, and taught to the rising generation in elementary schools.’--- Fr Ernest R. Hull, SJ: Galileo and his Condemnation, Catholic Truth Society, 1913, p.71.

    'This position of the Flood as being geographically universal meets with serious scientific difficulties. For one, how can you get enough rain to cover the entire earth?... In other words, the laws operating on the Earth today cannot be applied to the time of Noah… One of the motivations for Brown  to postulate water coming from below [the Earth] is that the Bible describes the waters of the Flood as coming both from the ‘fountains of great deep’ and the ‘floodgates of Heaven’ (see Gen, 8:2) …. Clearly this is a popular, but not a scientific description.’ --- Fr Paul Robinson

    Comment:Is this priest actually questioning God’s ability to flood the Earth with water as revealed in Genesis? Is Fr Paul telling us the following is not a true history?

    ‘[4] I will rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and I will destroy every substance that I have made, from the face of the earth. And the flood was forty days upon the earth, and the waters increased. [11]  all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the flood gates of heaven were opened: [12] And the rain fell upon the earth forty days and forty nights. [18] For they overflowed exceedingly: and filled all on the face of the earth: [19] And the waters prevailed beyond measure upon the earth: and all the high mountains were covered. [20] The water was fifteen cubits higher than the mountains which it covered.’ --- (Genesis Ch 7 and 8)

    The false gods however, supposedly saved Egypt and her ancient buildings, temples and sanctuaries from all these ‘local’ floods. Here we see good reason why the Egyptians falsified the ages of their buildings. Contained in these ancient temples and sanctuaries was preserved knowledge of the origin of the world when man had fraternised with their pagan gods.

    Comment:Again, we see Catholics divided into two; the learned educated Catholics who know the Genesis flood was local and the unscientific ‘retards’ as the two Catholic priests above call those who take Genesis chapters 6-8 literally, as Moses recorded in the Bible. Fr Paul Robinson SSPX, 100 years after Fr Hull, dismisses the Flood as a supernatural act of God, making it comply with the limits of human reason. Why then, according to Genesis, did God tell Noah to build a massive Ark over many years, a barge as big as a modern cruise ship, a barge to spend a year afloat on a local flooded plain when he and his family could have simply moved with horse and cart to a dry region in the same way as Moses was advised to move out of Egypt to save his people? Moreover, why did Genesis tell us Noah was told to take so many animals, birds etc. in the Ark to preserve such kinds on Earth after the waters receded? If there were ‘regions’ that were not flooded, then surely such creatures on them would have made God’s order to Noah totally unnecessary.

    An Earth-wide flood would also result in massive mountains of earth-crust movement as well as liquid sediments made up of pieces of rock, earth, dust and other particles, into which all living creatures would fall into and become fossilised. Isn’t that what we find; 75% of the Earth’s surface is sedimentary rock strata filled with billions of similar fossils the rest made up of igneous rock and metamorphic rock. Just how many ‘local-floods’ would have been necessary to account for such global topography? So, which Noah’s Flood are Catholics now taught, the Biblical revelation or the ‘educated’ nonsense? 

    ‘Deluge. The great flood which covered the whole land or region in which Noe lived (Gen. 6:1-9:19). God sent this flood to destroy all men in this region because of their wickedness. Noe and his family alone were spared (Gen. 6:1-8). Scriptural scholars say that the flood did not necessarily cover the whole Earth as we know it today; some even hold that it not necessarily destroyed all the people on the Earth.’ ----- The Holy Bible: The Catholic Press Inc. Chicago, 1951.

    So much for the dogma: ‘no salvation outside the Catholic Church (the Ark).’

    ‘The leader of the Bolshevik Revolution, Vladimir Lenin had been born into a Christian home but lost his faith as a teenager and embraced evolutionary materialism.  On his desk sat a sculpture of a chimpanzee sitting on a pile of books, including Darwin’s Origin of Species, contemplating a human skull.  Lenin coolly sat in the presence of that sculpture, overseeing the murders of millions of innocent people, all in the name of evolutionary progress.  Lenin’s successor as communist dictator of the Soviet Union, Josef Stalin, also lost his faith in God as a seminarian after reading about Darwin’s evolution and Lyell’s uniformitarianism.  He oversaw the murder of more than twenty million people, all in the name of evolutionary progress.  When communism then spread to China, Mao Tse Tung’s forces held compulsory seminars in every town they captured, not in the teachings of Marx, Lenin, or Mao, but in evolutionism, because, in the words of Passionist missionary bishop Cuthbert O’Gara, evolutionary theory could be used to destroy people’s faith in God, in the [eternal] soul, and in the after-life, and communism could then take root in the minds of the people. The evolutionary hypothesis provided a rationale for communist movements all over the world.  It also provided a pseudoscientific rationale for the eugenics movement in the United States, Germany and elsewhere. Evolutionary theory was used to justify genocide in the German colony of Namibia in the early twentieth century and to justify the ideology of the nαzι party which took power in Germany in 1933… According to Adolf Hitler, the purpose of the nαzι Party was to advance evolution.’ --- Kolbe Center report 17/7/2017.

    Here below is an example of this fossil evolution propaganda coming from a Catholic priest in an interview to theistic-evolution fans in 2019, inferring Lenin’s, Stalin’s, Mao’s and Hitler’s evolution was God’s way of creation.   

    ‘In the fossil record, there is a series of simple to complex. Yes, it does shows there is a progression from simple to complex but it doesn’t show us how that progression happened. It could have happened through animation [evolution] by natural selection, or could have been something else [like what, miracles?].’--Fr Paul Robinson SSPX

    Comment: Imagine a Catholic priest preferring a billion miracles to have his evolution rather than abide with a supernatural creation of all immediately as revealed in Genesis.

    ‘Since Pope Leo XIII’s encyclical Providentissimus Deus (1893), Catholic exegetes have abandoned the idea that the Bible is meant to teach science, adding this principle to the age-old Catholic principle that the Bible must be reconciled with science, at least with settled science. Pope Leo explicitly states that: Sacred Scripture speaks in a popular language that describes physical things as they appear to the senses, and so does not describe them with scientific exactitude. The Fathers of the Church were mistaken in some of their opinions about questions of science. Catholics are only obliged to follow the opinion of the Fathers when they were unanimous on questions of faith and morals, where they did not err, and not on questions of science, where they sometimes erred.’ --- Fr Paul Robinson, SSPX. 

    Comment: Pope Leo XIII was a post-1820 pope whose predecessors had decreed heliocentrism (according to modern astronomers)  was not to be forbidden by any Catholic teaching. In his Providentissimus Deus he wrote: ‘18: The unshrinking defence of the Holy Scripture, however, does not require that we should equally uphold all the opinions which each of the Fathers or the more recent interpreters have put forth in explaining it; for it may be that, in commenting on passages where physical matters occur, they have sometimes expressed the ideas of their own times, and thus made statements which in these days have been abandoned as incorrect. Hence, in their interpretations, we must carefully note what they lay down as belonging to faith, or as intimately connected with faith, what they are unanimous in. For “in those things which do not come under the obligation of faith, the saints were at liberty to hold divergent opinions, just as we ourselves are,” according to the saying of St. Thomas Aquinas.’

    We see then, by 1893, a new hermeneutics and theology had grown in the womb of the Church based on the excuses and sophistry used to try to excuse and explain how the Church ‘got it so wrong’ when reading and defining the geocentric revelation of Scripture. Given the Galileo case is the only one of its kind in the history of such an exegesis above, all future comments on the case refer to Providentissimus Deus as ‘Church teaching’ on faith and ‘science.’

    ‘The Society of Saint Pius X holds no such position [Biblical geocentrism]. The Church’s magisterium teaches that Catholics should not use Sacred Scripture to assert explanations about natural science, but may in good conscience hold to any particular cosmic theory. Providentissimus Deus also states that Scripture does not give scientific explanations and many of its texts use “figurative language” or expressions “commonly used at the time”, still used today “even by the most eminent men of science” (like the word “sunrise”)’ --- SSPX press release, 30/8/2011.

    Comment: All the above from Leo XIII was based on the ILLUSION that the 1616 decree defining and declaring had been falsified. It never was. But now Catholic teaching for Fr Robinson, the SSPX, and 200 years of Catholic faith and reason has been based on the HERESY never ABROGATED..



    Offline Charity

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    Re: Review of Fr. Robinson's Modernist Guide to Science Refuting Scripture
    « Reply #20 on: October 14, 2022, 03:53:40 PM »
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  • The infamous SSPX Press Release in fulll: https://sspx.org/en/sspx-on-geocentrism-press-release-galileo-heliocentric-solar-system-bible-divino-afflatu-spiritu-providentissimus-deus


    You are here:

    The SSPX on geocentrism: press release

    What is the SSPX's position concerning the heliocentric and geocentric scientific theories of the solar system?

    PLATTE CITY, MO (8-30-2011) A recent news report implied that the Priestly Society of St. Pius X promotes the scientific theory of geocentrism as a Catholic teaching based upon the Bible. The SSPX holds no such position.

    The Church’s magisterium teaches that Catholics should not use Sacred Scripture to assert explanations about natural science, but may in good conscience hold to any particular cosmic theory. As a religious congregation of the Catholic Church, the SSPX holds to these principles and does not teach any solar scientific theory.



    The SSPX and the solar system

    As declared by Pope Leo XIII in Providentissimus Deus, science cannot contradict the Faith:

    Quote
    There can never… be any real discrepancy between the theologian and the physicist, as long as each confines himself within his own lines, and both are careful, as St. Augustine warns us, 'not to make rash assertions, or to assert what is not known as known.'"

    Even today, many commonly-held tenets of natural science are merely theories, not certainties. This is not the case with the Catholic Faith, which is a certainty.

    The Church’s magisterium authoritatively teaches on the correct interpretation of Sacred Scripture. As Pope Pius XII taught in Divino Afflatu Spiritu:

    Quote
    The Holy Ghost, Who spoke by them [the sacred writers], did not intend to teach men these things—that is the essential nature of the things of the universe... [which principle] will apply to cognate sciences…"

    Providentissimus Deus also states that Scripture does not give scientific explanations and many of its texts use “figurative language” or expressions “commonly used at the time”, still used today “even by the most eminent men of science” (like the word “sunrise”). Such expressions are not scientific teachings about the cosmic world.

    So Catholics should not use the Bible to assert explanations about natural science, but may in good conscience hold to any particular cosmic theory. Being faithful to the Church’s magisterium, the Society of St. Pius X holds fast to these principles: no more and no less.

    *************************************************************************************
    And here is the infamous October 2003 Angelus Press Cover story on Galileo, penned by one Jason Winshel, a middle school teacher.
    https://sspx.org/sites/sspx/files/galileo-victim-or-villain-october-2013-angelus.pdf

    Of special note is footnote 6 which reads as follows:
    "6 There are some, including certain prominent traditional Catholic authors,who still maintain that the Earth is the center of the universe in spite of
    the preponderance of evidence to the contrary. Though it would appear
    impossible to state definitively where the center actually is, or that there
    is a center at all, given that everything seems to be in motion, to stand on
    geocentrism as an article of faith is irresponsible precisely because it is not
    an article of faith. To defend it as such, especially in light of the evidence, is
    theologically unsound and unnecessary, while serving no positive purpose.
    The Church has never defined geocentrism as a dogma binding on Catholics.
    Moreover, Pope Urban VIII himself said that heliocentrism would never be
    condemned as heretical. See Jerome J. Langford, Galileo, Science and the
    Church, 3rd ed. (Ann Arbor, MI: 1992), p.113. That said, Robert Sungenis
    puts up a good fight for geocentrism from a scientific standpoint as opposed
    to a theological one. ..."


    [At the time Robert Sungenis who is mentioned indirectly as well as directly in the footnote was not allowed by the SSPX to place a rebuttal to the article in the pages of the Angelus.]

    9
    THE ANGELUS
    October 2003
    Victim or Villain?
    GALILEO
    J a s o n W i n s c h e l
    I, Galileo, son of the late Vincenzio Galilei, Florentine,
    aged 70 years,...having before my eyes and touching
    with my hands the Holy Gospels, swear that I have
    always believed, do believe, and with God’s help will
    in the future believe all that is held, preached and
    taught by the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.1
    Thus began one of the most famous–in many
    circles, infamous–personal declarations of all time.
    99

    10
    THE ANGELUS
    October 2003
    These are the first words in the public abjuration of the world-
    renowned mathematician Galileo Galilei before the Holy Office
    of the Inquisition. The date was June 22, 1633, and Galileo had
    just been sentenced by the Inquisition in respect to the publication
    of a book in which he clearly taught “that the Sun is the center of
    the world and does not move from east to west and that the earth
    moves and is not the center of the world.”3 In fulfillment of the first
    part of his sentence, and to be absolved of the suspicion of heresy
    and disobedience, he continued:
    With sincere heart and unfeigned faith I abjure, curse, and detest the
    aforesaid errors and heresies and generally every other error, heresy and
    sect whatsoever contrary to the Holy Church, and I swear that in the future
    I will never again say or assert, verbally or in writing, anything that might
    furnish occasion for a similar suspicion regarding me.4
    With the completion of his formal abjuration, Galileo was to
    be imprisoned and required to recite the seven penitential psalms
    weekly for three years.
    This much is clear. All of the above is part of the historical
    record, part in fact, of the final proceedings of the trial of Galileo
    before the Holy Inquisition. But it is at this point that confusion
    enters; for few trials have been as misunderstood, misrepresented,
    and entirely abused as Galileo’s. Historians and scientists alike
    have heralded the interaction of Galileo and the Church as the
    commencement of the fight of science versus faith, reason versus
    authority and superstition. In our post-Christian world, the debate
    thus characterized has become one of good versus evil with the
    moribund Catholic Church playing the role of antagonist.
    A popular account of the Galileo Affair would proceed as
    follows: Galileo, a scientist of highest rank, proved the theory
    advanced by Copernicus in the 16th century, namely that the sun
    is the center of the world around which the earth revolves annually
    while rotating on its axis. The Catholic Church, which held to the
    geocentric model wherein the earth is static, condemned Galileo
    as a heretic for his claim. He was then tortured, threatened with
    execution until he recanted, imprisoned for life, blinded and
    refused Catholic burial. The Church, as though to prove her
    intransigence and her enmity toward science, refused to allow
    heliocentrism (sun-centered universe) to be taught until the 19th
    century when Galileo’s book Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World
    Systems was finally taken off of the Index of Forbidden Books.5
    The implications of this popular portrayal of events are
    profound for several reasons. Firstly, in terms of apologetics, if
    the Church indeed pronounced solemnly that the Earth does
    not revolve around the sun, then she almost certainly would
    have erred.6 Naturally, this situation would eliminate her claim
    of infallibility, which would in turn destroy her claim of Divine
    institution. An alternative interpretation, if we want to protect
    the Church’s claim of inerrancy, might be to allow a plurality
    of contradictory truths. In other words, one might say that by
    faith we believe one thing, by science we believe the opposite.7
    Thus, we would concede that science and religion are indeed
    incongruent, but not necessarily incompatible. However, this too is
    unacceptable, because there is unity in truth. The Church cannot
    hold true that which is opposed to a truth of science. One or the
    other must be false since God is the author of all truth and cannot
    contradict Himself.
    But, beyond the questions about science and religion, what
    does this rendition of the Galileo case portend for the reputation
    of the Catholic Church? Did she really just arbitrarily condemn
    Whatever
    they can really
    demonstrate
    to be true of
    physical nature
    we must show
    to be capable of
    reconciliation
    with our
    Scriptures; and
    whatever they
    assert in their
    treatises which
    is contrary to
    these Scriptures
    of ours, that is to
    the Catholic faith,
    we must either
    prove it as well
    as we can to be
    entirely false, or
    at all events we
    must, without
    hesitation, believe
    it to be so.
    –St. Augustine 2

    11
    THE ANGELUS
    October 2003
    a man to life imprisonment in order to thwart a
    scientifically proven truth? Was there any reason for
    what happened beyond a simple desire to continue
    to freely propagate her own errors? How should
    a Catholic respond when confronted with such
    accusations concerning this whole affair?
    In the course of this essay, we will elucidate
    the answers to these questions and objections by:
    1) providing the historical context outside of which
    no event of this magnitude can be understood; 2)
    correcting factual errors and misconceptions; and
    finally 3) drawing some conclusions and inferences
    based on what we have found.
    Context Part I: PERSONAL
    Galileo the Man
    Galileo was born in the Italian city of Pisa in
    1564. Though it is often overlooked, he was raised
    and always remained a loyal Catholic, even joining
    for a year the Vallambrosan Order as a novice around
    the age of 14.8 Although he failed to earn a university
    degree for financial reasons, Galileo doggedly
    pursued studies of mathematics and mechanics on his
    own. By the age of 25, he had invented a hydrostatic
    balance, written a highly praised essay on “the center
    of gravity in solid bodies,” and had won the attention
    of some high-ranking scholars and clerics including
    the great Jesuit mathematician Christopher Clavius
    and the Marquise Guidubaldo del Monte, the brother
    of Cardinal Francesco Maria del Monte. Withal, in
    1589, at age 25 he obtained a position as Professor
    of Mathematics at the University of Pisa. Three
    years later, Guidubaldo assisted in gaining for him
    an appointment to the chair of Mathematics at the
    University of Padua, where he remained for 17 years.
    Later, seeking greater freedom to research and fewer
    teaching responsibilities, Galileo looked to remove to
    Florence in Tuscany. In hopes of gaining a position
    there, he went so far as to name the moons of Jupiter,
    the “Medicean Stars” after Cosimo II de Medici,
    Tuscany’s Grand Duke, and dedicated his first book,
    the Starry Messenger, to the same nobleman. Finally, in
    1610, Cosimo appointed him “First Mathematician of
    the University of Pisa, and First Mathematician and
    Philosopher to the Grand Duke.” He maintained this
    post while living in Florence throughout most of his
    period of troubles with the Church authorities.9
    Much of the dispute between Galileo and the
    Church has been attributed to an innate conflict
    between science and religion. Galileo has even been
    referred to as a martyr for science.10 The assertions
    are false. Neither are science and religion opposed–
    although their methods may differ, their objects are in
    agreement–nor was Galileo condemned because of a
    statement of scientific truth. In reality, central to this
    conflict was the messenger, not the message.
    We have seen the meteoric rise of a brilliant man,
    but we have not seen the man. Galileo’s personality
    was a breeding ground for discord. According to
    Arthur Koestler, “Galileo had a rare gift of provoking
    enmity; not the affection alternating with rage which
    Tycho [Brahe] aroused, but the cold, unrelenting
    hostility which genius plus arrogance minus humility
    creates among mediocrities.”11 He was brash, abrasive,
    proud, and provocative. In his first post at Pisa, he
    had already earned the moniker “The Wrangler” due
    to “his choleric and disputatious temper.”12 Besides
    the run-in concerning heliocentrism, he disputed with
    varying degrees of success the so-called Aristotelians
    at the university concerning physics and astronomy,
    fellow astronomers concerning who discovered
    what heavenly things first, others concerning the
    composition of comets, and many others about
    whatever he could find. But it was not just that he
    engaged in frequent debate–that would be expected in
    the inquisitive atmosphere of the late Renaissance–but
    in the mode of his attacks. Galileo was a tremendously
    effective writer and rhetorician, who played his
    audience masterfully. His pen soaked in sarcasm, he
    refused to concede even the most minute of points,
    but chose to attack fiercely those with whom he
    disagreed. According to Will and Ariel Durant:
    He was an ardent controversialist, skilled to spear a foe
    on a phrase or roast him with burning indignation. In the
    margin of a book by the Jesuit Antonio Rocco defending the
    Ptolemaic astronomy, Galileo wrote, “Ignoramus, elephant,
    fool, dunce...eunuch.”13
    J.L. Heilbron suggests that indeed “Galileo posed
    a special threat to the Church because he knew how
    to write. Witty, sarcastic, informative, and profound,
    he occupies a place among the stylists of Italian
    literature.”14 And indeed to the Italian language
    he occasionally turned. Instead of writing in Latin,
    the universal language of scholars, and with an eye
    toward a larger, less exclusively educated crowd,
    Galileo penned his most controversial works in
    Italian. He was a popular polemicist quick to admit
    that he did not write for pedants.15 Consequently,
    instead of a simple essay swamped in figures and
    equations, he textured his prose with wit and
    invective and aroused the passions of the multitudes.
    In short, Galileo would be a dangerous man with a
    delicate message.
    Context Part II: HISTORICAL
    Action and Reaction
    Galileo lived in an age of upheaval. He was born
    in the era during which the Protestant Revolution,
    shaking and shattering Christendom, reached a
    mature state. In 1642 he died, a month shy of his 78th
    birthday, after the Catholic Church had re-asserted
    herself and the sanguinary Thirty Years’ War still
    had six years to go. These were the latter years of the
    Renaissance, and the beginning of what is sometimes
    referred to as the “Age of Reason.”16 New worlds were
    opening up as explorers, traders, and settlers scattered

    The Aristotelian Universe
    The Earth is at the center, surrounded by
    concentric spheres on which the sun, the
    moon, and the other planets revolve.
    The Copernican Universe
    The sun is at the center, with the Earth
    and other planets in circular orbits
    around it.
    Tycho Brahe’s Universe
    A geocentric universe where all the
    planets revolve around the sun, while the
    sun turns around the Earth.
    Reprinted with permission from Galileo, Science, and the Church, by Langford
    (Ann Arbor: The University of Michigan Press, 1992), pp.26,38,47.
    T


    The Aristotelian Universe
    The Earth is at the center, surrounded by
    concentric spheres on which the sun, the
    moon, and the other planets revolve.
    The Copernican Universe
    The sun is at the center, with the Earth
    and other planets in circular orbits
    around it.
    Tycho Brahe’s Universe
    A geocentric universe where all the
    planets revolve around the sun, while the
    sun turns around the Earth.
    Reprinted with permission from Galileo, Science, and the Church, by Langford
    (Ann Arbor: The University of Michigan Press, 1992), pp.26,38,47.
    THREE
    SYSTEMS
    12

    13
    THE ANGELUS
    October 2003
    around the globe and nations sought empires in
    exotic lands. It has been justly characterized as the
    “Age of Adventure,”17 for adventures are defined
    by uncertainty and excitement. And these are the
    things that unseated the Catholic order that had
    reigned supreme in the High Middle Ages.
    But the uncertainty and excitement proved
    perilous. For in their midst, souls were being lost.
    The Renaissance gave rise to many great advances
    in the arts and sciences, but its humanism also
    served as a distraction for many away from
    their heavenly goal. The Protestant Revolution,
    beginning in the early 16th century, not only upset
    the established social order, obliterated the unity
    of Faith, and brought about bloody ιnѕυrrєcтισns
    and warfare, but it destroyed souls in countless
    quantity. The Catholic Church, whose Divine
    mission was to see to the salvation of those souls,
    was compelled to react. She did so impressively.
    The 1500s witnessed: the all-encompassing
    Council of Trent, which had so clearly defined so
    many things Catholic, and condemned so many
    things Protestant; the Catholic Reformation, where
    the Church cleaned house; the inception of the
    Jesuits, the most rigorously intellectual order of
    the day and stout defenders of orthodoxy; the
    codification of the Mass by Pope St. Pius V; a
    deluge of catechetical works; an unparalleled
    emphasis on apologetics, most importantly and
    epically by St. Robert Bellarmine; and a more
    resolute protection of the Sacred Scriptures that
    had been so savagely attacked by Protestantism. In
    sum, the Church tightened her grip on her divine
    possessions. She kept much stricter vigil over her
    dogmas, her Gospels, her sacred authority, all of
    which had been questioned by the “Reformers.”
    Moreover, she maintained the Holy Inquisition
    and added, in 1559, the Index of Forbidden Books
    as means of pursuing her resolve to shepherd
    as many souls as possible to Heaven. Simply
    put, circuмstances were poor for the promotion
    of ideas that could possibly detract from the
    authority of the Church or scandalize souls.
    Context Part III:
    COSMOLOGICAL
    Three Systems
    Onto a stage thus set, Galileo brought his
    pugnacious style to a debate that at the onset
    of the 17th century actually involved three
    competing theories of the universe. Two of these
    were geocentric and the third was heliocentric.
    In their details none of them were wholly true,
    but each seemed to supply an explanation for
    what was visible to the naked eye. In so doing,
    each was plagued by a dizzying number of
    epicycles, or circles upon circles, that were needed
    to reconcile the theory with what was clearly
    visible in the heavens. This effort to make what
    was apparent agree with a theory by postulating
    various speculative additions was called “saving
    the appearances.” It was bulky and complex,
    but saving the appearances at least made the
    workings of the universe predictable if not actually
    comprehensible.
    The most ancient view, and one that held sway
    for centuries was a mixture of the observations
    and speculations of Aristotle and Ptolemy.
    Known as the Ptolemaic model of the universe,
    this theory gained great esteem especially in the
    first half of the second millennium AD when
    Aristotle reigned supreme among philosophers
    and theologians. Aristotle had been reintroduced
    to the western world in the 1200s by the great
    scientist and theologian St. Albert the Great.
    However, where Albert sought proof and,
    when necessary, correction of Aristotle’s claims
    through experimentation, later scholars tended
    to merely take “The Philosopher” at his word.18
    In this case, the word of Aristotle, adapted by
    Ptolemy, proclaimed a universe with all of the
    celestial bodies moving in perfect circles around
    a stationary earth. But it was not just on the basis
    of Aristotle’s authority that people accepted this
    model. In fact, as James Brodrick writes:
    It answered well enough to their daily experience.
    The earth certainly seemed at rest, and any man who
    sat up late at night could see for himself the majestic
    wheeling of the heavens. The Scriptures, the revealed
    word of God, seemed to be permeated through and
    through with the same idea, though the sacred writers
    had never heard of Aristotle. The Fathers of the Church
    did not so much believe the geocentric theory as take
    it for granted. Ptolemy’s elaboration of Aristotle did in
    fact account for the celestial phenomena well enough,
    and by it eclipses could be predicted and ships guided
    to their destinations with reasonable accuracy.19
    Thus, the geocentric model of the universe,
    which was hardly questioned for eighteen
    hundred years seemed satisfactory not only on a
    philosophic and theological level, but also on a
    practical, common-sense level.
    Canon Nicholas Copernicus, saw things
    otherwise. Looking to a number of ancient writers
    in combination with his own observations and
    those especially of Cardinal Nicholas Cusa and
    others in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, he
    devised a comprehensive theory that accounted
    for the appearances while positing that the sun
    was the center of the universe. The Copernican
    model of the universe found its greatest exposition
    in his work, De Revolutionibus orbium coelum,
    which was published while Copernicus lay on
    his deathbed in 1543. This model was known in
    most scholarly circles, taught as a theory in the
    universities, and believed by some, but for the
    most part it aroused little interest for about fifty
    years. The book itself “was and is an all-time worst

    14
    THE ANGELUS
    October 2003
    seller.”20 While the general idea of heliocentrism
    was reputable, Copernicus’s system was even more
    complex than the old one, containing more circles
    upon circles, and it was ensconced in a book that was
    almost as unreadable as it was unread. Meanwhile,
    the theory as Copernicus had it figured was so
    weak that he was actually afraid to publish it for
    fear of public embarrassment.21 Almost in spite of it
    all, the heliocentric theory would rocket back into
    prominence shortly after the turn of the 17th century.
    The last system to vie for acceptance in this time
    period was that of Tycho Brahe. Tycho, who was
    arguably the greatest, most persistent and accurate
    celestial observer, opposed the Ptolemaic model
    because he could not reconcile it with the supernova
    of 1572 and the great comet of 1577. He also opposed
    the Copernican theory because of insufficient
    evidence, and because he felt it contradicted
    Scripture.22 In this last he followed the lead of his
    Lutheran forerunners, Martin Luther and Melancthon.
    To fill the void, he suggested a model wherein the sun
    and moon circled around the earth while the planets
    revolved around the sun in epicycles. A latecomer to
    the scene, this theory would gain greater acceptance,
    especially among the Jesuit astronomers, as new
    discoveries made the old Ptolemaic scheme appear
    less tenable.
    Galileo Ascendant
    In 1608 Hans Lippershey, a Dutchman, patented
    the telescope. A year later Galileo began work on
    his own, and by 1609 his “spyglass” was magnifying
    objects a thousand times. The calm ended. The
    tempest erupted. Immediately the heavens presented
    new spectacles to the aided eye and new evidence
    for the astronomical debate. As it turned out, the
    evidence proved devastating to the Aristotelian-
    Ptolemaic cosmology. Contrary to that theory, Galileo
    observed that the moon’s surface was not perfectly
    round and smooth, but “full of irregularities, uneven,
    full of protuberances ... varied everywhere by lofty
    mountains and deep valleys,”23 concluding that it
    was of the same material as the earth. He identified
    four moons that revolved around Jupiter instead of
    the earth, as well as the phases of Venus, the lack of
    proof of which had previously been a sticking point
    in the Copernican model. A year after the publication
    of these discoveries, he observed, with others, the
    sunspots, indicating that the sun was of changeable
    matter, again contrary to the model suggested by
    Aristotle. In sum, the empirical evidence provided by
    the telescope clearly mitigated against the Ptolemaic
    theory of the universe that had been held so dear so
    long.
    Galileo published his initial observations in
    a small book called the Starry Messenger in 1610.
    Twenty-four pages long, its message was highly
    accessible, and consequently sold out rapidly. The
    effect was dramatic. The cosmological debate spread
    like wildfire. Galileo was “lauded as the greatest
    astronomer of the age.”24 While this was certainly
    an overstatement, it indicates the spirit of the day.
    Meanwhile, Fr. Christopher Clavius, the highly
    renowned chief mathematician and astronomer at the
    elite Jesuit Collegio Romano, whom Galileo had met
    years before, wrote to tell him that the astronomers
    at the college had confirmed his discoveries.
    (Clavius would die just over a year later convinced
    in part because of the telescopic discoveries that the
    Ptolemaic system had become untenable.) So Galileo
    set out for Rome with high expectations of convincing
    the ecclesiastics there of the virtues of the Copernican
    system.25 The Jesuits, many high ranking prelates and
    cardinals, and even the Pope, Paul V, who granted
    him a long audience, greeted him enthusiastically. He
    was admitted to the newly-formed Accademia dei Lincei
    whose common goal was to “fight Aristotelianism
    all the way.”26 Writing, “Everybody is showing me
    wonderful kindness, especially the Jesuit Fathers,”27 he
    returned to Florence in triumph.
    Galileo’s Obstacles
    Galileo now proceeded to work at full throttle to
    gain acceptance of the heliocentric universe not as a
    theory, but as a proved fact. But while his confidence
    increased so too did the rumblings of dissent. In
    fact, the first condemnation of heliocentrism by the
    Inquisition was less than five years off.
    Four serious problems plagued the Italian
    astronomer: 1) First of all, and most importantly,
    he neither at this point, nor ever proved his theory.
    He eventually offered numerous arguments, but
    they were all flawed. In the meantime, he refused,
    possibly out of pride, to accept or even acknowledge
    Johann Kepler’s idea that the planets’ orbits are
    elliptical. If he had done so, his arguments would
    have been far more palatable for having gained
    the one thing lacking in all other models, namely
    simplicity (since the ellipses would eliminate the
    cuмbersome epicycles). But, in spite of his various
    shortcomings, he clearly illustrated the weakness
    of the Ptolemaic model of the universe. However,
    this brings us to the second problem. 2) Galileo
    never gave the Tychonic model sufficient attention.
    He could have completely annihilated the theory
    of Aristotle and Ptolemy, but since that was not the
    only geocentric alternative, it would still be far from
    logical to conclude that heliocentrism must be true.
    But this is exactly what Galileo did, as though Tycho
    Brahe and his ideas never existed. In the meantime,
    many of the Jesuit astronomers were taking to the
    Tychonic model precisely because it could still
    account for the various new telescopic discoveries
    just as well as heliocentrism, but it did not pose the
    Scriptural difficulties inherent in the sun-centered
    theory. 3) The third problem facing Galileo then was

    15
    THE ANGELUS
    October 2003
    the simple fact that his theory seemed to fly blatantly
    in the face of passages in Sacred Scripture such as
    Jos. 10:12-13, where Joshua commands the sun to be
    still in the valley of Ajalon. Not only were statements
    like this in Scripture, but the Church Fathers took
    them literally. As a result, an ancient teaching of the
    Church appeared to be contradicted by heliocentrism.
    4) The last major problem standing before Galileo
    was his own personality. By championing the cause
    of heliocentrism, he was treading on potentially
    perilous ground. Copernicus and others had gotten
    away with discussing heliocentrism as a theoretical
    construction;28 by promoting it as true, Galileo was
    taking the game to a whole new level. His disputatious
    nature would impede his progress throughout the
    pending ordeal.
    The showdown between Galileo and the
    Inquisition took part in two phases. The first occurred
    in 1615-1616, the second 1632-1633. We will examine
    them in chronological order.
    The First Showdown
    By 1615, Galileo had spent years loudly preaching
    the Copernican theory as truth. He had defeated
    many a foe in mathematical debate, but in time
    the focus of the debate shifted from mathematics
    and astronomy to theology. The transition to the
    theological only occurred because Galileo insisted
    that Copernicanism was true, and not merely
    a hypothetical but practical tool. Indeed, using
    heliocentrism as a convenient construct to predict
    astronomical events and to save the appearances was
    one thing, but to suggest it was actually true in the
    face of and contrary to the authority of Sacred Writ
    was another.
    Inevitably, the scriptural objections noted
    above were raised both by clerics and laymen, most
    importantly, the Grand Duchess Christina of Tuscany.
    In 1613, at a dinner in which the conversation turned
    toward the subject of the day, she inquired in some
    detail about the Copernican model and gave voice
    to the usual scriptural protestations to a disciple
    of Galileo’s, a Benedictine monk name Benedetto
    Castelli. Castelli related the incident to Galileo, and
    Galileo took the plunge into the dangerous waters
    of theology. He hurriedly wrote and circulated his
    Letter to Castelli. It would prove to be the beginning
    of his downfall. In the Letter Galileo made clear his
    position that the Bible sometimes speaks of things
    according to common parlance, even if the speech is
    not technically accurate. (Thus, we still speak of the
    sun rising and setting even if we know that the earth’s
    rotation accounts for the appearance of the motion of
    the sun.) Scripture was not intended as a mathematics
    textbook, and so should not be utilized as an authority
    in that field when observation seemed to contradict it.
    In this vein of thought originated the saying that the
    Bible was meant to teach how to go to Heaven, not
    how the heavens go.
    Within about a year of the circulation of the
    Letter to Castelli, the attacks on Galileo moved to the
    pulpit and then beyond. A Dominican, Fr. Thomas
    Caccini, attacked mathematics, mathematicians, and
    the Copernican theory mercilessly, using as his text
    for a sermon, “Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing
    up into the heavens?” Fr. Niccolo Lorini, on behalf
    of the Dominican monks of St. Mark’s in Florence,
    sent the Letter to Paolo Cardinal Sfrondato, one of
    the Inquisitors General, who in turn passed it on to
    the Holy Office. In the cover letter, Fr. Lorini stated
    the monks’ opinion that the Letter slighted Scripture,
    the ancient Fathers, St. Thomas Aquinas, and the
    philosophy of Aristotle “which has been of such
    service to Scholastic theology.”29 Moreover, the monks
    could see that allowing individual interpretation of
    Scripture contrary to the teachings of the Fathers was
    precisely the origin of the Protestant Revolution and
    was condemned by the Council of Trent (1545-1563).30
    Aside from their place in the narrative, the
    interesting point about these two episodes is that in
    both cases, the higher Church authorities decreed in
    Galileo’s favor. Fr. Luigi Maraffi, Preacher General
    of the Dominican Order apologized to Galileo for
    the attack by Fr. Caccini to which he referred as an
    “idiocy.” The Inquisitor assigned to read the Letter to
    Castelli determined it to be orthodox.
    As Galileo was gaining these two concessions,
    however, he was at work on a revised version of the
    Letter. In the interim between the two Letters he had
    been warned by friends (including the future Pope
    Urban VIII, Cardinal Maffeo Barberini) to cease the
    promotion of his theory as a fact, and to quit dabbling
    in theology and speak as a mathematician only. He
    refused this advice, emboldened by the publication
    of a book by a Carmelite Friar named Paolo
    Antonio Foscarini that claimed to have reconciled
    Copernicanism and Scripture. But Cardinal St.
    Robert Bellarmine, in review of Foscarini’s work and
    referring explicitly to Galileo as well as Foscarini,
    said they must treat the matter as a theory and that
    Scripture was not to be reinterpreted unless and until
    there was “a true demonstration that the sun was
    in the center of the universe and the earth in third
    sphere, and that the sun did not travel around the
    earth....”31 Even at that point, Bellarmine said, it would
    be necessary to proceed with great caution in the
    reinterpretation of the difficult passages. After all, the
    faith of souls was at stake. On the part of Bellarmine,
    speaking, as all knew, unofficially for the Church, the
    thrust of his statement was judicious and prudent. It
    allowed that geocentrism was not an article of faith,
    thus leaving open the possibility that it might be
    shown to be false. On the other hand, he made clear
    that it was not a matter to be treated lightly, and that
    if heliocentrism were indeed demonstrably true it had
    to be dealt with delicately.
    (continued on p.34)

    THE ANGELUS
    October 2003
    But the reckless Galileo, true to form, would
    not compromise. He believed Copernicus to be
    right, but he could not prove it. He wanted others to
    believe the same, but he could not convince them.
    And he hardly acknowledged the Tychonic model,
    the one system that stood as an entirely logical
    alternative. Nevertheless, in his Letter to the Grand
    Duchess Christina, the revision of that to Castelli,
    he disregarded all exhortations for prudence and a
    tempered message. After repeating and magnifying
    all of his controversial methodological practices of the
    past (e.g. interpreting Scripture, asserting the reality of
    Copernicanism), he went so far as to suggest that his
    theory must be accepted as truth until the theologians
    had disproved it. In other words, the Bible must be
    reinterpreted unless the theologians could disprove
    heliocentrism. In this manner he appeared to shift
    the burden of proof to the theologians.32 It was a
    bold move and a hazardous decision. In spite of the
    apparent rebelliousness of his approach, however, he
    concluded by promising submission to the Church
    and her judgment on matters concerning religion.
    And yet he added, “I do not feel obliged to believe
    that that same God who has endowed us with sense,
    reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their
    use.”33
    In December, 1615, against the advice of many of
    his cardinal friends and Robert Bellarmine, Galileo
    took his case to Rome. Rumors had spread that
    Copernicanism was to be banned by the Church
    authorities. In order to thwart a decision against
    Copernicus and to clear his own name, Galileo
    stepped into the gauntlet.34 Amidst murmurs of heresy
    and blasphemy, he pleaded his case before everyone
    in the ecclesiastical hierarchy who would listen. In
    February of 1616, as passions flew, he pressed the
    Christopher
    Clavius
    Aristotle
    Copernicus[/siz

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Review of Fr. Robinson's Modernist Guide to Science Refuting Scripture
    « Reply #21 on: October 15, 2022, 10:23:14 AM »
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  • SSPX:  The Church’s magisterium teaches that Catholics should not use Sacred Scripture to assert explanations about natural science, but may in good conscience hold to any particular cosmic theory. 

    This is a complete and total lie, the false premise out of the gate that everything follows.  By claiming this, they smear St. Robert Bellarmine and the others who judged heliocentrism to be heresy based on its contradiction with Sacred Scripture, as interpreted by the Church Fathers.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Review of Fr. Robinson's Modernist Guide to Science Refuting Scripture
    « Reply #22 on: October 15, 2022, 10:29:57 AM »
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  • Comment:Is this priest actually questioning God’s ability to flood the Earth with water as revealed in Genesis?

    Yes, he absolutely is.  That's why he's a Modernist heretic.  One of the hallmarks of the Modernist approach to Sacred Scripture is the refusal to acknowledge that God works miracles that might defy the laws of nature.  So they try to come up with naturalistic explanations for eveything.  So, for instance, the parting of the Red Sea was just a low tide that revealed a sand bar that allowed the Jєωs to pass through.  God's miracle consisted mostly of working out the timing of the whole thing.

    It's the same Deism that Lyell promoted, and also Descartes, that God's roll in creation was simply to "kick off" the entire process (which Pasteur rightly took him to task over).

    This reminds me of the exchange I had with the Modernist heretic Van Beeck at Loyola University.  VB:  "We know that the Gospels were all written after 70 A.D."  I: "Why do you say that the Gospels were written after 70 A.D.?  What's the evidence for that?"  VB:  "That's because there are references in the Gospels to the fall of Jerusalem, which took place in 70."  I :  "Ah, so you mean where Jesus foretold the fall of Jerualem.  So, you're saying that Jesus isn't God and can't know the future."  VB:  Angry scowl.

    Robinson is as bad as any of the Modernist heretics that I battled for 8 years in Jesuit schools.


    Offline cassini

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    Re: Review of Fr. Robinson's Modernist Guide to Science Refuting Scripture
    « Reply #23 on: October 15, 2022, 12:27:08 PM »
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  • Yes, he absolutely is.  That's why he's a Modernist heretic.  One of the hallmarks of the Modernist approach to Sacred Scripture is the refusal to acknowledge that God works miracles that might defy the laws of nature.  So they try to come up with naturalistic explanations for eveything.  So, for instance, the parting of the Red Sea was just a low tide that revealed a sand bar that allowed the Jєωs to pass through.  God's miracle consisted mostly of working out the timing of the whole thing.

    It's the same Deism that Lyell promoted, and also Descartes, that God's roll in creation was simply to "kick off" the entire process (which Pasteur rightly took him to task over).

    This reminds me of the exchange I had with the Modernist heretic Van Beeck at Loyola University.  VB:  "We know that the Gospels were all written after 70 A.D."  I: "Why do you say that the Gospels were written after 70 A.D.?  What's the evidence for that?"  VB:  "That's because there are references in the Gospels to the fall of Jerusalem, which took place in 70."  I :  "Ah, so you mean where Jesus foretold the fall of Jerualem.  So, you're saying that Jesus isn't God and can't know the future."  VB:  Angry scowl.

    Robinson is as bad as any of the Modernist heretics that I battled for 8 years in Jesuit schools.

    Agree Ladislaus. Do you know who was King of evolution crap being the way God created. The Protestant  who pretended to convert to Catholicism, became the Patron Saint of Evolution, and of Vatican II? None other than Henry Newman.

    https://churchlifejournal.nd.edu/articles/a-patron-saint-of-evolution/